timloco
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2012
Posts: 545
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Post by timloco on Feb 16, 2014 12:45:23 GMT -5
I've got a Lortone Qt-66 that's been running pretty much nonstop for a year and a half now, a month or so ago I noticed it was moving more slowly, and making noises it didn't use to make, like rawr rawr straining motor kind of noise. I hit the bearings with a squirt of oil and maybe that seemed to help but then I went out in the garage last week and it had totally stopped. So I got a new set of bearings and a belt hoping it would be as simple as that and when I took the cover off for the belt there was a bunch of black powder from the belt wearing out. So I figured cool, easy peasy. Put the new belt back on started 'er up and put a 12 pound barrel on it and it seemed to be turning just fine. But I went out there this morning and it was stopped, the motor is pretty hot and I'm guessing it wasn't as easy as a new belt so I've just put an order in for a new motor... Oh well, I'll have all fresh new parts on it and hopefully it will last at least another year and half.
Anyone else have any experience with the QT-66, how long do these motors last?
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Feb 16, 2014 12:51:06 GMT -5
I've hear others say otherwise but for me, all my numerous QT66's QT12's and 33Bs all crapped out after a couple of years. So much so that I no longer buy them. I've changed belts, cleaned them up, changed bearings, lubed them etc and to me, it just seems to motors conk out and refuse to turn the load. They didn't use to be that way when I first started tumbling and I had some 33B's and QT 12's last for five years or longer but not anymore.....Mel
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Feb 16, 2014 13:30:56 GMT -5
My QT 12 stops whenever the power "flickers". When it comes back on, I can hear the motor humming but not turning and it's hot.Hot is normal on these motors. Whenever this happens, I just give the barrel a push, and everything runs fine, until the next power interruption. The 1st time this happened, I assummed bearings, belt, motor shot, etc. Almost pitched a good motor. Maybe a little push will solve your situation too . Good Luck!
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timloco
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2012
Posts: 545
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Post by timloco on Feb 16, 2014 13:56:53 GMT -5
It was a lot hotter than normal. Normal I can touch it, this was too hot to touch more than a second. Oh well, 54 bucks for a new one. Probably won't be too hard to find one that size with better specs if this one dies prematurely. everything else seems pretty solid, even the bearings were pretty good I've been careful about keeping the grit off of everything. Once when I had two fully loaded 6 pound barrels on it, it wouldn't turn until I lifted up one barrel and it started moving, then I lowered it. That's the only time in a year and half it didn't turn until it died. It never stopped after it got started...
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 16, 2014 13:58:12 GMT -5
Mine stopped a couple of times when it was only about 6 months old, but in my case it was a loose belt. I had the same black powder. My powder was from the belt wearing through the belt cover. It was so loose that it was dragging along the bottom of the belt cover and wore right through. Once I tightened it, it worked fine. My QT66 is just over a year old, so I don't know if the motor will hold up or not yet.
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Steve
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2005
Posts: 506
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Post by Steve on Feb 16, 2014 14:34:37 GMT -5
I gave up on the Lortone motors and belts -- the belt seems to be the main problem, and the motor is a bit under powered for the job it's asked to do.
I bought a couple of rods of 3/4 inch cold rolled steel, 4 pillow bushings, a 12 inch pulley, a 3.5 inch pulley, a 1/4 hp 1725 rpm motor, a v-belt, 4 Lortone barrel guides, and some 2 by 6 boards and built a 4 barrel tumbler using the Lortone barrels. Liked it so much, I built a second one. The first one on a 1/3 hp motor, has run trouble free for about 6 years. The second one using a 1/4 hp motor, is now about 6 months old.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Feb 16, 2014 23:30:03 GMT -5
My Lortone's have started to misbehave over time as well, I love the barrels and have been toying with building my own as well.
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Steve
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2005
Posts: 506
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Post by Steve on Feb 17, 2014 0:17:35 GMT -5
Let me know if you want to use my design and measurements. It takes almost a whole afternoon to put it together (if you decide to also paint it). Although half the fun is coming up with your own design.
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Post by pghram on Feb 17, 2014 16:32:04 GMT -5
I wonder if there is a better motor that could replace the lorton motor?
Rich
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Feb 18, 2014 13:19:04 GMT -5
Something I forgot earlier, it sounds like a no-brainer, but once when my motor stopped and didn't respond to a gentle push, very hot, I unplugged it. After the motor cooled down overnite, I plugged it back in before I was gonna throw it in the scrap pile, and lo and behold it worked- that was 2 summers ago and it's still turning a 12# barrel. Go figure!
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timloco
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2012
Posts: 545
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Post by timloco on Feb 21, 2014 9:26:32 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the comments. The new motor was just installed and I put that 12 pound barrel on and let 'er rip, it's running a bit faster than the old motor was before it died. I noticed the motor was from a different manufacturer, so maybe they know about these dying prematurely. I do like the idea of making my own tumbler for these barrels, I might do that sometime.
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Feb 22, 2014 13:50:25 GMT -5
timloco, I wish I had some encouraging words about the small lortones, but I don't. I can't tell you how many of those little fractional hp motors I have fried- almost to the point of giving up the hobby. These tumblers are NOT continuous duty machines. Take some advice, money spent on a bigger tumbler is worth it. I run a 3-barrel Lortone (12 pound barrels) with a real motor (1/3 hp) on it, real bearings, and a real belt. I run this tumbler literally non-stop.
I like the Lortone 12 lb.barrels. They don't leak (at least mine don't). I have a second home-made tumbler that runs 6 barrels, and it also runs 24/7.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 22, 2014 14:09:10 GMT -5
How much more does it cost in electricity to run a larger motor? That's what keeps me from building my own tumbler.
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Steve
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2005
Posts: 506
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Post by Steve on Feb 22, 2014 15:36:49 GMT -5
I don't know, but you can certainly use a smaller motor than a 1/3 or 1/4. A friend uses a 1/6/ hp to run 8 Lortone 12 lb barrels. It's just hard to find a good 1/6 hp motor and 1/3 hp motors are plentiful.
I rebuilt a homemade tumbler a couple of years ago. It had a 3/4 hp on it to run 2 barrels. I replaced the 3/4 with a 1/4 hp.
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Bains
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2004
Posts: 12
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Post by Bains on Feb 22, 2014 17:12:45 GMT -5
This reply is regarding the question of where to get motors for the Lortune tumblers. And I apologize for the length of this post. I am an absolute tumbling newbie – just so everyone knows that I know very little about actual tumbling. Recently I got a Lortune QT-NR from my father’s estate. It is an early model unit and he only used it for tumbling shooting brass. The drum is a 12 pound capacity. HOT DOG I thought!! Now I can try out this rock tumbling stuff so I purchased grit, some rocks and like most things I start probably got carried away with buying stuff. Armed with enthusiasm and no knowledge I put some rocks into the Lortune and started it. After three days it stopped working – and it was very warm (about 150 degrees) and smelled a little. Made no sense as to why it would stop but I looked for a new motor. Lortune will sell you one for $70 plus S&H and that did not seem like the answer. The results of my research are… All Lortune motors are fractional horsepower units – They turn CCW and have a speed of 1550 RPM (approximately) They are shaded pole motors – i.e. a traditional motor The CCW factor is very important since if you replace the motor with a CW rotation chances are that it will unscrew the knurled knob on the drum and your wife will yell a lot at the mess. GE made the original motors -- MHP of 30 and current draw of 1.4 amp Brinkley made the next batch of motors but they are out of business. FRASCO is the current supplier. Current FASCO motors use the industry standard 3.3” form factor (size) and the industry standard pattern of four bolts/studs that are 2.85” center to center. Lortune has FASCO leave out two of the studs and only has two studs for mounting. According to CSR at Lortune, the current motor is rated at 95 watt or .86 amp. This is a really small motor and it is the same one used in the 6# and 12# tumblers. I was nervous about the small size of the motor for a larger load and the high price for what should be a $25 unit. A close replacement FRASCO motor equivalent is available at www.emotorstore.com You will have to cut the shaft down from 2” to about 1” You will have to cut off two of the four studs on the motor leaving only two. D133 (the www.emotorstore.com part number) is a 1/20 HP and 1.8 amp with CCW rotation It draws more power so in theory it should be more powerful. It is thermally protected – good deal to avoid fires and to protect the motor when it gets bogged down and stops turning. Turn it off, wait a while and turn it back on and continue on. Cost is $32 plus S&H. The next part of the post speculates about loss of power and motor burnout. Turns out that this is probably what happened to me. Our power sent out and the motor did not start to rotate the drum because of the sludge and rock weight. It was not thermally protected so it burned out. A poster (unclesoska) gave the hint about letting the motor cool and the thermal overload will reset. Then you can start it again but if it is full of rocks and grit it may have turned to a form of concrete so reloading might be required. I apologize for the length but hope it helps some folks with Lortune units.
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Bains
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2004
Posts: 12
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Post by Bains on Feb 22, 2014 17:27:17 GMT -5
12# Lortune Loading question…
I have an older Lortune QT-NR tumbler – equivalent to a 12# unit.
My motor burned out and I asked Lortune about the weight. The CSR said that 12# meant the weight of the tumbler and the material inside (rocks, grit, water).
Seemed strange to me…
The drum weighs 5# 2 oz The drum about ¼ full of water weighs 7# That leaves weight capacity for rocks of only 5#
With 5# of rocks in the barrel they came up 3” leaving a 4 ½ inch dead space at the top.
This seems wrong – it is 40% full, not anywhere near the 66% that is recommended by all of the literature, blogs and posts. Tumbling will not effectively according to others.
So what is the consensus of this group – is the CSR correct or should the barrel be filled with more rocks and water to the approximate 12# capacity?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 23, 2014 17:15:31 GMT -5
This has come up before. I think most of us ignore the weight and just fill 2/3 to 3/4 full of rocks. This might lead to early motor failure, but with so little rock, they'd fracture more and you wouldn't get much done.
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MrCoffee
has rocks in the head
Member since December 2005
Posts: 634
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Post by MrCoffee on Feb 23, 2014 19:27:34 GMT -5
I think Lortones are rated for weight, and not capacity. A 6 pound barrel may hold a half gallon, but if the stones and liquid weight 10 pounds, it will put the unit under a lot of strain. I think much of this is why the typical lifespan of a Lortone is 3 years or less, when worked continuously. The one I had, when properly loaded, would take at least two months to grind down a batch of Montana agate. If my current tumbler wears out, then I will most likely invest enough money for a decent unit with a rubber-lined metal barrel. For a budget unit, I'm betting that a Thumler's Model B would give the most, for the least cost. But again, Thumler motors also have a reputation for stopping. It is a very true fact that you get what you pay for. I have been using Covingtons myself, because they have proven to be both reliable, and efficient. My Model 255 is cranking out nearly 20 pounds, and has not had any leaks or faults, even with a heavy gas buildup. However: If I had any kind of money, I would very highly likely be invested in a Diamond Pacific 25T or similar.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 2:22:16 GMT -5
Greetings [bains] firstly your barrel loading theory is only true when you have got a kiddie tumbler that is guarenteed to break within the 1st month, rotary & or vibratory tumblers are filled by volume not weight. Empty rubber barrel weights, average gross weight when filled to 75% capacity & external barrel dimensions: Evans (UK) Size 1.36kg (3lb) = 0.60kg (1.32lb), 2.5kg (5.51lb), 140mm (5.5") Length X 115mm (4.5") Width. Lortone (USA) Size 1.36kg (3lb) = 0.50kg (1.12lb), 2kg (4.4lb), 107mm (4.2") Length X 115mm (4.5") Width. Lortone (USA) Size 2.72kg (6lb) = 1.45kg (3.19lb), 5.5kg (12.12lb), 115mm (4.5") Length X 200mm (8") Width. Lortone (USA) Size 5.44kg (12lb) = 2.4kg (5.29lb), 14kg (30.86lb), 215mm (8.5") Length X 200mm (8") Width. Fill barrel 50% full with stones between 15mm - 40mm (0.6" - 1.5") for a [3lb] unit. Fill barrel 50% full with stones between 15mm - 65mm (0.6" - 2.5") for a [6lb] unit. Fill barrel 50% full with stones between 15mm - 90mm (0.6" - 3.5") for a [12lb] unit. Note: You will only get a few pieces at the largest size in your unit. Then add pea sized (media) to fill to 75% full, then fill with water until it appears level with rocks & media, add Borax for burnishing (washing), Silicon Carbide grit for grinding or polish, for more information see Sticky #5 below. The heavest 12lb barrel so far was 18.6kg (41lb) gross weight including barrel, water, 480g (1.05lb) of Silicon Carbide grit & 75% full of Gold Tiger's eye on a Lortone QT12/66. At the moment my 12lb barrel gross weight is 12kg (26.45lb) including barrel, water, 480g (1.05lb) of Silicon Carbide grit with 50% Rose Quartz, 20% Amethyst & 5% Gold Tiger's eye. Lortone do specify to fill by volume & only in the troubleshooting guide. Troubleshooting guide: Barrel too heavy: Do not exceed rated capacity. Lortone do not specify in their instructions the weight capacity of their rotary tumblers. The barrel size [3lb], [6lb], [12lb] at one time in the early days that weight was about all you could run, however since reliable motors came in to being, the weight is no longer an issue, the early manufacturers should have used volume measures for example litres (pints, gallons) instead of barrel weights sizes. Only Homberg & Brusius & UKGE: Rotobarrel near the bottom of the page specify their tumblers by volume. Homberg & Brusius's TRM-1A, TRM-2A & TRM-5 appear to be rebrands of the Lortone 3A , 33B & QT12 with white rubber barrels. Rotobarrel's 3Litre & 6L barrels are comparable to Lortone's 6lb & 12lb rubber barrels & have almost the same dimensions as Lortone barrels, however Rotobarrel have a side opening window & they are at the top end of the market in price. Please check out my Sticky's below. -- Please click images to open larger images in a new Tab, same with everything that is Underlined! I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens (15mb) sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from this monstrosity! Sticky's: their contents are resource information 1#: Vendors worldwide (2mb), 2#: How to use the forum, 3#: How to identify rocks & minerals, 4#: Save money on expensive grits & polishes, 5#: Aussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide!
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tcosby1954
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2014
Posts: 1
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Post by tcosby1954 on Nov 2, 2014 17:03:44 GMT -5
GET A MOTOR FOR A THUMBLERS TUMBLER MODEL B THE 15 POUND MODEL FROM THE ROCK SHED COST APROX $53.00 DOLLARS PLUS SHIPPING . IT HAS MORE POWER AND WILL WORK BETTER , UNDER LOAD.SHOULDNT STALL CHECK BEARINGS AND ROLLERS FOR WEAR . MAKE SURE THE DRUM IS ROUND , MINE I GOT WITH MY QT 12 WAS NOT ROUND AND CAUSED DRAG . OTHER THAN THAT CHECK IF THE FRAME IS STRAIGHT LINED UP, THEY CAN BE BENT IF DROPPED !! THE BIGGER MOTOR SHOULD HELP THE MOST !! GOOD LUCK !!
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