hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 6, 2014 11:45:00 GMT -5
So, I plan to surf the board as much as possible, reading everything thread that catches my eye. I already know all my answers are on here, but I am going to post these questions anyway and hope to get an updated discussion going!
I am a longtime rockhound, like...ever since I was a dang toddler. I've got a fair bit of good material (mostly jasper, yellowstone agate, carnelian agate and pet wood) that I want to start working with/polishing.
I do not have an unlimited budget!
What is my best course of action!?? Lets put it this way.... Im willing to dump 200-400 into polishing equipment say in the next 6 months or so.... with that number in mind... if I want to "get started" tumbling some of this wood and agate... would I be best served to start with a rotary then buy a vibe later? (I cant spend the 200-400 all at once, I am talking about over time)...
Should I start with rotary? what are the pros and cons rotary versus vibe?
I appreciate any input! Really excited about this.
P.S. I was told about a local couple the other day, that called themselves the "rock people"... I was told where they lived. I went to their house and drove down the alley behind their house and about fell over dead... they had buckets upon buckets of beautiful specimens of wood, yellowstone agate, jasper, obsidian and MORE just piled and bursting into the alley... a lot of slabs and such just lying around... I then stopped and snooped around and they had a 55 gallon drum of yellowstone agates, many/most fist sized and uncut, just sitting there! It was overwhelming to me. i went and knocked on their door and no one was around... I plan to go back and meet them soon...as Im sure they must have amazing specimens inside if they have all that just laying around!!!
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on May 6, 2014 12:49:59 GMT -5
First off ... welcome aboard ! This is a great place to find out about rock tumbling and all that goes with it. I would think you would likely want to start with a rotary tumbler. The rotary will round your rocks while smoothing and can also be used to polish. A vibe does not shape rocks but only smooths rough edges leaving the rocks more naturally shaped. Generally the vibe will create a better shine. Most do the coarse grind in rotary and then move to the vibe for fine grind, prepolish and polish. You are thinking about starting with agates and pet woods. Good choice. It is always best for a beginner to start with harder stones. Much easier to get good results with harder rocks. If you have a lot of material to tumble you may want to consider a 6# or larger tumbler. The larger tumblers work the rock faster and more efficiently than smaller ones in my experience. Lortone and Thumlers are the brands that most people like here. I would recommend staying away from Chicago Electric tumblers from Harbor Freight. They are inexpensive and may be tempting to someone on a budget but so many people have had problems with them and replacement parts are a pain to get. You will need grit for your tumblers as well. Don't know if your budget is for equipment only but you will go through a lot of grit in the first stage of tumbling. May need to consider that as well. When I first started I bought grit 5 pounds at a time but soon began to order 50 pounds at a time. Take a look at The Rockshed. www.therockshed.com/index.html Good people to deal with. Lots of folks here buy from them.
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 6, 2014 15:31:33 GMT -5
Welcome hornseeker. I agree with everything Ken said, but I'll add a couple things. When you buy your rotary tumbler from The Rock Shed, I'd recommend getting a two barrel tumbler. That way you will be able to run two different materials at the same time. Buying a double barrel tumbler is cheaper than buying two single barrel tumblers.
When considering grit costs, you should know that a vibe tumbler uses almost no grit compared to a rotary. In my Lot-O, I only use 1/2 teaspoon for most grits. I use 2 tablespoons for the 220 stage. 60/90 or 80 grit is what I purchase in 50 lb. quantities for use in my rotary tumblers. I use more per barrel and that stage can take months to complete.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on May 6, 2014 21:59:41 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum, lots to see and learn here. If you have the ability, or a friend that does, give thought to building your tumbler. Look at jamesp's homebuilts on the homemade section, his are probably the easiest and cheapest you can build; and they work.
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Post by rocking&earthing on May 7, 2014 1:30:34 GMT -5
I thank you for your post. I am also new and hope to move on to the next step with my rotary tumbler this week. Been on 60/90 crit for 3 cycles. Stuborn NW agates collected west of St. Helens. I appreciate all the great advice i have read and seen on this site.
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 7, 2014 15:04:31 GMT -5
W. of St. Helens! Ive got a small collection of carnelian from that area that am looking forward to polishing... beautiful material. I wish i wasn't 800 miles from there...
I do have the ability to build stuff, I'll have a look. I am a long time craftsman and have done woodwork and welding for quite a few years!
Lets talk more about vibe vs rotary... frankly, I thought the dual 6# drum Lortone for $189 sounded like a reasonable price.
I am not "keen" on rounding all my material... I do appreciate the natural forms. If I was to spend $189 on a vibe... what would I be looking at? A single barrel Lot-O? 4.5 pounds...
Ugh. I just need to buy one and get started... I almost feel like I want to go with that dula drum Lortone... then buy a vibe if need be for polishing??
Thanks all! Keep up the advice please.
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 7, 2014 15:38:22 GMT -5
I started with a Lortone 33B (two three pound barrels). Before my first batch was done, I bought a single barrel Lot-O. I like my rocks rounded, so I have never done a batch from the start in my Lot-O. A year after the Lot-O purchase, I bought a Lortone QT-66. If I had to do it again, I would buy the QT-66 and then the Lot-O. I really like the three tumblers I have, so I don't regret buying the smaller Lortone.
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 7, 2014 16:29:30 GMT -5
So... I really like the idea of the QT66... I think that will be my first purchase. Can I "polish" in there too... A guy doesn't have to have a vibe does he?
as far as vibe goes... Lot-O 4.5 pound at $180 vs UV-10 for $215. The $35 doesn't really bother me... for that matter... double Lot-O at $255 still isn't stretching it too far for me... and the two barrels seems pretty handy... ugh!!!
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 7, 2014 17:11:15 GMT -5
Yep, you can polish in a rotary tumbler. I never have, but many people do. I like the Lot-O because it uses less grit and is much faster. With my four barrels, I can't keep my Lot-O full. You have to have both barrels full to use it. I have no use at all for a double Lot-O, but others use both barrels. I have a second barrel for polishing though. People who have UV10s like them too. To me, it comes down to the capacity that you want.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on May 8, 2014 10:56:16 GMT -5
Don't think you can go wrong with a Lot-O or Thumlers UV. Like Rob said consider capacity. I also have a QT 66 and like it a lot. Lortone has a 12# barrel that fits on that same frame, so it can be a versatile machine. It can run one or both 6# barrels or one 12#.
Polishing can definitely be done in a rotary. Most people who do so save one barrel, or buy another, for polish only. It is also a must for vibe tumblers. So you'll likely want an extra barrel no matter which way you go.
Rotary tumblers can use the coarsest of grits and round and shape better in the rough grind. 120/200 is the coarsest grit recommended for a vibe, coarser grits chew up the barrel too fast.
Rotary is fill and forget. Put it your rocks, water and grit and let it run for 7 to 10 days before clean out or recharge. Vibes need more attention. They need checked 3 or more times per day to make sure the action is good and there is enough water to keep everything moving.
Vibes are faster and use less grit. For the fine grind , prepolish and polish my methods require 25 days in a rotary. I can do the same steps in my vibe in 9 to 11 days with approximately 80% less grit and polish.
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 8, 2014 11:05:03 GMT -5
Wow... 1/3 the time almost...1/2 anyways... and 80% less grit? SO... you had me all going Rotary Rotary Rotary... then your last sentence makes me think VIBE VIBE VIBE!!! LOL!
Yeah... gonna have to have both I guess! hehehe
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 8, 2014 14:27:48 GMT -5
So I just located a NEW in box UV-18 for $130... obviously a steal... When you have one that big, does it HAVE to be full to work? Can I just fill it with random river rock and throw in the stuff I want to polish too? Am I setting myself up for failure cause its too big unless I am doing a ton of material??
Thanks... I think I will buy it... but just wanted some info!
Ernie
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 8, 2014 14:33:15 GMT -5
I don't know if the UV-18 has to be full, but the Lot-O does. You wouldn't want to throw rough rock in with the other stuff because it would scratch it up.
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 8, 2014 14:39:42 GMT -5
If I threw random river rock in with a bunch of agates, it would scratchthem? Wouldn't they scratch eachother then? Not being a smart a$$, just trying to understand this deal!
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 8, 2014 14:43:36 GMT -5
Never Mind... its not the heavy dute version... not meant for rocks!
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 8, 2014 15:03:55 GMT -5
I think it would be ok to toss in tumbled river rock with agates. I'd want any filler rock to not have sharp edges or holes that could trap grit.
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moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77
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Post by moogie on May 12, 2014 14:06:34 GMT -5
Whew, that was a close one! That would have been a disappointment to buy something you couldn't use. I personally started with a Thumler UV 10. You do have to fill it 1/2 to 3/4 full. I, too, like natural shapes. My first vibe batch I made sure that I liked the shape of every rock I put in. It was very stressful, because you have to get the water juuuust right to keep the tumbling action going. I mean, you really have to DEDICATE the first day and feed it water every 2 or 3 hours, like a newborn! After about 48 hours I stopped it and the rocks were pretty darn smooth. Not perfect, but good. But I realized that some rocks I had were just not in an attractive shape, and some had a lot of flaws and would need a real grinding. So, I invested in a Lortone double 6#, and also an extra bowl for the Thumler (I called Thumler directly, and they gave me a little deal....don't tell Shawn). SO, now I plan to tumble anything and everything in the Lortone with 60/90, then move to one UV bowl for the 120/220, then use the extra UV10 bowl for the prepolish and polish. No, I haven't actually done a complete batch all the way to polish, but I'm optimistic this set up will work with as little stress as possible. The trickiest part of tumbling I'm finding is getting the amount of water right, be it rotary or vibe. Too much and the slurry just sinks, too little and the rocks don't tumble right. It just takes trial and error, this forum is going to be very helpful to you, no matter what you decide to do. Your material sounds very motivating, plus a potential new source, whoo hoooo!
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azgnoinc
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by azgnoinc on May 12, 2014 16:47:30 GMT -5
Welcome to RTH!! Since I run 2 of the cheap HF tumblers that you've been warned about I will throw my 2 cents in here - yes, I'm a newbie too - but getting 1 or 2 of the two barrel versions they sell ($54) - that would solve your rotary rough grind dilemma, and I imagine that they would probably last quite a while longer if you only ever used them for the initial 60-90 stage and then moved your batches over to a Lot-O (which will be my next purchase due to time & FAR less grit which = $$) - I personally run the 2 I have 24/7, no problems just yet, but I realized that they were mostly temporary when I bought them to get started about 3-4 months ago - and before I found RTH as well. As mentioned above and was also told to me when I asked - make sure you have an extra barrel for whatever you end up with that is a polish only barrel, and you want to try & keep your material to 1 type per batch, though it's not absolutely critical and throwing some river rock in there won't hurt provided it is in the batch from start to finish (all stages) and that it's the same hardness or softer than the other material that you are actually trying to polish - it will work as a filler cause you need all kinds of different sizes in your batches to effectively carry the grit to achieve the polish you want - some folks also add ceramic pellets for this purpose and some folks use plastic pellets as a grit transport/cushioning mechanism too - but you'll read more about that as you explore around here. Good luck and post plenty of pics once you are up & running!!
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 14, 2014 8:26:27 GMT -5
Thank You AZ! Good info. I talked to a long time rock shop owner and he and his wife have a Lot-O they have been running full time for like 18 yrs or some such with only very minor maintenance needed. I think that is what Im saving for too now!! I change my mind easily!
A buddy that has been polishing for a while just brought me 5 pounds of really rough, 45-60 grit silic-carbide. I guess this stuff will smooth a stone out pretty quick!
I'll look into the little HF rotarys. Can you put golf ball size rocks in them? Tennis ball size? Just curious?
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on May 14, 2014 8:31:48 GMT -5
oh, and for the filler material... so yeah, I live next to the yellowstone river... I can get all the river sand, pea gravel, or any sized gravel I want. Pretty much all will be softer than the wood and agates I'll be running! So, what would be the difference between using that type of stuff for filler versus ceramic?
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