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Post by radio on May 23, 2014 8:18:51 GMT -5
Snag one I have been wanting to build a reverse flow model to better control the heat distribution. With most smokers you can't cook on the first 1/4 or more of the cooking chamber as the heat coming in has to even out or you cook to fast. Been wanting to smoke a brisket for a while now, but just so danged busy I don't have time:-( Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/65822/jamesps-junkyards-downtown-atlanta?page=2&scrollTo=744810#ixzz32WzELoxfHave made a lot of wood stoves. A vertical compressor tank will hardly draw. A horizontal tank will draw air like a jet engine. I for that reason believe in a vertical arrangement for smoking. The smoke gets trapped in a vertical arrangement and the fire burns very slow. Even a round fire pit is hard to start a fire in, easier to start a fire on flat ground. Made a wood stove out of an 16 inch pipe w/flat plate ends and the flue out the back plate, door in front plate. Set horizontal. 40 inch long. It draws so fast it resonates like one of Hitler's flapper jet engines at certain settings. To the point it shoots flame out the incoming air adjustment slot a foot about twice a second. Along w/ashes blowing out the vent hole. Perhaps super sonic, sounds like explosions at a frequency of 2 per second. The whole thing becomes cherry red in minutes due to the violent reverberation within. Closing the vent to a trickle it burns just fine. It will burn all the wood up quickly when flapping. I trip out guests with that thing. Set the fire, turn the lights down, and wait till it starts making racket, and then watch it turn cherry red. Funniest thing. If you "trap" the smoke when cooking, the creosote in the smoke will settle on the meat and give it a bitter taste. This is why we leave the damper on the smokestack wide open and use the inlet to control temperature. If you have air leaks in the firebox, it is very difficult to regulate air flow and this is why you see so many folks buy a cheap Charbroil smoker, use it a few times and then let it rust away or sell it on Craig's list. They can work well with a few modifications, but a rookie smoker is almost always going to get either lousy or unpredictable results I need to hit my local scrap yard and pick up some 3/8 steel plate and start modifying one of my three smokers:-)
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 23, 2014 8:29:23 GMT -5
If you "trap" the smoke when cooking, the creosote in the smoke will settle on the meat and give it a bitter taste. This is why we leave the damper on the smokestack wide open and use the inlet to control temperature. If you have air leaks in the firebox, it is very difficult to regulate air flow and this is why you see so many folks buy a cheap Charbroil smoker, use it a few times and then let it rust away or sell it on Craig's list. They can work well with a few modifications, but a rookie smoker is almost always going to get either lousy or unpredictable results I need to hit my local scrap yard and pick up some 3/8 steel plate and start modifying one of my three smokers:-) Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/65822/jamesps-junkyards-downtown-atlanta?page=2&scrollTo=744849#ixzz32XrOyEzlSmoker lessons needed. Know nothing other than wood stove technology. Great info radio. I respect the technology of such a process. I have used the aforementioned smoker w/great success. But do complain about it's longevity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 12:40:24 GMT -5
Temp should be 200-225 - fruit woods are good, all deciduous trees are good. Hickory too strong for me, mesquite = terrific! Alder & Oak very mild
ribs = 2 hours tri-tip = 6 hours brisket = 12-18, pork butts = 6 hours
I've never smoked whole fowls. I should get a chicken and give it a shot. Prolly start with 2 hours for a chicken and 4-6 for a whole turkey.
Experiment with brines for the fowls and spices rubs for the mammals. Fun fun fun 'til daddy takes the tbird away.
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Post by radio on May 23, 2014 18:31:38 GMT -5
Temp should be 200-225 - fruit woods are good, all deciduous trees are good. Hickory too strong for me, mesquite = terrific! Alder & Oak very mild ribs = 2 hours tri-tip = 6 hours brisket = 12-18, pork butts = 6 hours I've never smoked whole fowls. I should get a chicken and give it a shot. Prolly start with 2 hours for a chicken and 4-6 for a whole turkey. Experiment with brines for the fowls and spices rubs for the mammals. Fun fun fun 'til daddy takes the tbird away. I think you made a typo on the rib cooking time sir:-) I use the 3-2-1 method (6 hours total) on my ribs and I generally run my stick burner around 275°
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 18:41:03 GMT -5
NOPE - Not here in Cali!! lol
Ribs for 2 hours at 200-225 and they are falling off the bone. Actually, I pull the bones (they slip right out) and serve mess free rib meat ready for the fork!!
What is 3-2-1 method???
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Post by radio on May 23, 2014 19:00:54 GMT -5
NOPE - Not here in Cali!! lol Ribs for 2 hours at 200-225 and they are falling off the bone. Actually, I pull the bones (they slip right out) and serve mess free rib meat ready for the fork!! What is 3-2-1 method??? The 3-2-1 method is 3 hours in the smoke at 250-275° then pull and foil wrap with a bit of apple juice and back on for 2 hours, then unfoil and finish for another hour uncovered. at the end of the 6 hours they are fall off the bone tender. I don't see how a slab of ribs can be tender in 2 hours at only 225° It must be that Southern Ca sun helping cook 'em
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 23, 2014 19:14:48 GMT -5
Type of Meat Smoking Temp Time to Complete Finished Temp Brisket (Sliced) 225°F 1.5 hrs/pound 190° Brisket (Pulled) 225°F 1.5 hrs/pound 200° Beef Ribs 225°F 3-4 hrs 175° Pork Butt (Sliced) 225°F 1.5 hrs/pound 180° Pork Butt (Pulled) 225°F 1.5 hrs/pound 205° Whole Chicken 250°F 4 hrs 165° Chicken Thighs 250°F 1.5 hrs 165° Chicken Quarters 250°F 3 hrs 165° Whole Turkey 12# 240°F 6.5 hrs 165° Turkey Leg 250°F 4 hrs 165° Turkey Wings 225°F 2.5 hrs 165° Turkey Breast – bone in 240°F 4-6 hrs 165° Boudin 230°F 2.5 hrs 160° Breakfast Sausage 230°F 3 hrs 160° Fatties 225°F 3 hrs 165° Meat Loaf 250 -300°F 3 hrs 160° Meatballs (2 inch) 225°F 1 hr 160° Spare Ribs 225-240°F 6-7 hrs Tender* Baby Back Ribs 225-240°F 5-6 hrs Tender* Salmon 140-160°F 5-7 hrs 145° Smoked Corn 225°F 1.5 – 2 hrs N/A Smoked Potatoes 225°F 2 – 2.5 hrs N/
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 19:37:09 GMT -5
I feel over 225 is too high for thinner or faster cooking meats. There are proteins that bind up when they go over boiling temp and that makes the meat tougher not softer. (I can proivide reference for this science, if desired) I suspect whomever made this recipe/list has a thermometer that is reading high. Bone in ribs will over heat very easily at 240 and become tough. And 6 hours at those temps you will certainly have jerky. No matter what baby back ribs do NOT need more time in than beef ribs.
I just ate some baby back ribs I cooked today. Here is how I did it.
Layer of foil as an outer shell, layer of foil lined parchment (Reynolds product) as an inner liner (parchment up). Baby backs seasoned with salt, pepper, garlic powder, onion powder and a liberal layer of dark brown sugar. Seal up the pouch and bake in the regular oven for two hours.
Pre-heat propane grill on low for 5 minutes, remove ribs from pouch, place on grill 3-5 minutes per side for color (woot!! it worked!!) and then pull the bones for a bone free rib 'steak'. No mess. Cuts with a fork and chews like chocolate; melting in your mouth.
Tonight I took the seasoned pork juices (FLAVOR!!) and reduced in a pan, salted to taste, thicken with corn starch slurry and had my "bbq sauce". Delish. No pics yet. Maybe the leftovers tomorrow. I have to get to a baseball game now.
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Post by radio on May 23, 2014 19:48:12 GMT -5
I only use internal temp as a rough guide. on brisket and pulled pork when it properly cooked, a probe inserted into the meat will slide in like it's going in warm butter. I generally start testing this way when the IT hits around 195° if it feels right, I pull the meat from the smoker, wrap it in foil and put in an empty ice chest wrapped in towels to rest for at least an hour (drool)using the probe method, sometimes the meat is ready at 195-200° and sometimes it needs to go to 205° or so. I have had two briskets on at the same time with similar weights and thickness and one is tender at 195 and the other had to go well over 200° musta been a tough old bull Internal temp is not always going to give consistent results, but the probe method will
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 23, 2014 21:13:07 GMT -5
I grew up in the town that the kamado style 'Green Egg' was invented. We threw our metal grills away after using it. And smokers too. It is a ancient design using parabolic and elliptic surfaces to enhance radiation and flow. The thick ceramic and design maintains stable temps over a long period of time. Holds moisture. User friendly and forgiving.
Heat arrives to meat in 3 ways, radiation, convection and conductivity. It is a complicated process. I like what the ancients designed. I figure they had a few thousand years to get it right.
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stephent
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Post by stephent on May 23, 2014 21:53:55 GMT -5
The collagen in pork breaks down at approx 210 deg F internal temp.. producing a quite literally "pulled apart" pork..using forks, not knives. Hard to do without wrapping the meat up at about 4-5 hours into smokin...and finishing the last 25-30 degrees covered so ya don't get dried out meat. Pork (and beef, chicken) will start losing moisture at 174 degrees like a sieve. I *never* use aluminum foil next to any meat...if ya use a rub, the salt content will corrode parts of the alum foil away and guess where it ends up? I use several layers of parchment paper or a brown paper sack even, then the aluminum foil. I never seem to take Beef past medium rare so it's usually not a problem child like true pulled pork can be. And I gotta get my smoker barrel fixed...it's smokin time again.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 6:12:35 GMT -5
I copied this write up on the Green Egg. Other brands of kamado style cookers cook just as well. It is the Japanese that may have been the original designers. A test for moisture retention is to put a pyrex full of water in the kamado and smoke your meat. You will find that the water level is unchanged at about all smoking temperatures. The drawback is their small capacity, weight and cost. The cooking zone is surrounded by curved surfaces focusing the heat to the zone reducing cold spots. Heat loss is minimal as the surface can be touched with bare hand. The temp probe is of a certain length and reaches into the 'sweet spot'. Perfect symmetrical shape is a big advantage A WW2 neighbor had bought a large orange kamado back from the orient and loved to cook on it. Long before the technology was duplicated here in the states. His son was my buddy in grammar/high school and I remembered eating over at their house and being amazed at that cooker and the food that came off it. He was a Major in the air force. They loaded returning cargo planes w/kamados after the war. Not much has changed w/the kamado design. Better ceramics maybe. But the orient was teaching Europe ceramic technology long ago and had it mastered. Daltile manufactures the ceramic in Monterrey Mexico for the Green Egg. Just to replace the lower ceramic shell on a large Green Egg is $410. They rarely break.
The write up:
"The Big Green Egg is very versatile. It is said to be more versatile than any other outdoor cooker on the market. If you compare it to gas, electric, or another charcoal grill, The Big Green Egg is all of them all in 1 unit. It has the best cooking flexibility in its class. Imagine cooking steaks or chops to the perfect degree of doneness, cooking at temperatures up to 750°F for steakhouse searing. How about fallin'-off-the-bone ribs? Interested in having a tasty, juicy brisket on your menu? All of this is easily achieved with The Big Green Egg.
The EGG can achieve and maintain a low temperature of 200° to 250°F for the low-and-slow smoke cooking that develops wonderful flavor while tenderizing the meat. Whether searing or slow cooking, prepare the entire meal on the grill by adding any of your favorite vegetables to the cooking grid. If you're longing for cornbread, biscuits, a freshly baked loaf of bread or even a warm pie or cobbler to complete your meal, the EGG bakes better than a brick oven. The simple secret to temperature control is the easily adjustable dampers that let you maintain accuracy within a few degrees. The exterior temperature gauge gives precise temperature readings of the cooker's internal temperature.
Big Green EggThe EGG retains moisture in foods and releases flavor unequalled by other types of cooking, indoors or outdoors, thanks to the space-age ceramics from which the cooker is made. Foods don't dry out and meat undergoes little or no shrinkage. Foods will have a natural and wholesome quality and there are no metallic or chemical tastes. The ceramic surface doesn't get as hot as a metal cooker, also making the EGG safer to use. There is a Big Green Egg to fit everyone's outdoor cooking needs with five sizes ranging from Mini to Extra Large."
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Post by radio on May 24, 2014 6:32:05 GMT -5
I grew up in the town that the kamado style 'Green Egg' was invented. We threw our metal grills away after using it. And smokers too. It is a ancient design using parabolic and elliptic surfaces to enhance radiation and flow. The thick ceramic and design maintains stable temps over a long period of time. Holds moisture. User friendly and forgiving. Heat arrives to meat in 3 ways, radiation, convection and conductivity. It is a complicated process. I like what the ancients designed. I figure they had a few thousand years to get it right. Those BGE cookers are awesome! just a dollar two ninetyeight outta my price range though
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 7:55:02 GMT -5
Yep. Radio, I set up a welding jig to make outdoor kitchens with a shed roof over it. A free stander with egg, Aussie grill, sink, lighting etc etc. Really looking forward to this endeavor. catering to residential and patio restaurants in Atlanta area. Set up for manufactured cookers to be set in. Trying to get ergonomics/logistics perfected.
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Post by radio on May 24, 2014 8:08:46 GMT -5
Yep. Radio, I set up a welding jig to make outdoor kitchens with a shed roof over it. A free stander with egg, Aussie grill, sink, lighting etc etc. Really looking forward to this endeavor. catering to residential and patio restaurants in Atlanta area. Set up for manufactured cookers to be set in. Trying to get ergonomics/logistics perfected. Wow! good luck in your endeavor! I always wanted an outdoor grilling/smoking area
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 10:15:53 GMT -5
I *never* use aluminum foil next to any meat...if ya use a rub, the salt content will corrode parts of the alum foil away and guess where it ends up? Exactly
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 10:32:07 GMT -5
Yep. Radio, I set up a welding jig to make outdoor kitchens with a shed roof over it. A free stander with egg, Aussie grill, sink, lighting etc etc. Really looking forward to this endeavor. catering to residential and patio restaurants in Atlanta area. Set up for manufactured cookers to be set in. Trying to get ergonomics/logistics perfected. Wow! good luck in your endeavor! I always wanted an outdoor grilling/smoking area I am fired up. I stopped by the original Green Egg main store in Tucker a few days ago and was blown away by all the fancy German cars in the parking lot. Lot'sa $ shopping for their stuff. everything is expensive in there. They had contracted oversea cabinets to hold the Egg. they were dedicated to only Egg and table space and superb cabinets and finish. $3200 for a 60 inch wide, Egg not included was biggest model. some had a 24" X 30" granite prep area. The clients were not playing. The salesman were non-stop.
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Post by radio on May 24, 2014 17:43:01 GMT -5
I *never* use aluminum foil next to any meat...if ya use a rub, the salt content will corrode parts of the alum foil away and guess where it ends up? Exactly When I say "foil it" I don't use the sheet stuff. I place the meat in a disposable aluminum pan and put a small steel roasting rack in the bottom to hold the meat off the bottom and out of the liquid. I then place the foil "lid" over it and seal it up. If the meat is too tall and hits the "lid, I use foil and tent it so it isn't touching the meat
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 24, 2014 20:57:03 GMT -5
Raising the meat out of the liquid via rack or perforated pan sitting on a pan to catch the drippings works the best for me. Avoids flare ups and carbon flavor.
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Post by connrock on May 26, 2014 8:44:12 GMT -5
I worked with a guy who came from Poland and was a cook there. He offered to show me how he smokes salmon (and other fish) so I took him up on his offer. After brining twice(for several hours) he hung the salmon fillets and set a window fan on them to form a pellicle on the fish.When the fish had a leathery appearance to them he put them into his smoker. I was pretty surprised to see what he used for a smoker! He had a steel 55 gal drum sitting vertically on the top of a bank,,,with a wet burlap bag as a cover,,,, in his back yard.A 6" stove pipe ran from the under side of the barrel,down through the ground(buried)at a length of about 15 feet or so. He had a small hole dug,,,about 16"-18" wide and about 12" deep,,,, in the ground where the pipe came out of the ground.He started a small fire with apple wood branches and the smoking began. He had a thermometer sticking into the barrel and also a meat thermometer to check the temp of the fish. If the temp starting to get too high he kicked some of the burning branches to the side and when the temp settled down again he got the smoky fire going again.
He wrote his recipe and procedure down for me but it was all in Polish! LOL We had his daughter translate it and write it for me in English and this is what she came up with,,,,
Smoked Fish First brine/wash,,, 5 quarts of water 1/2 cup of salt (Kosher Salt) soak for about 30-45 minutes in fridge wash thoroughly with clean water ------------------------------------------------------------------ Seasoned Brine,,, 4 quarts of Water 3/4 cup Salt (Kosher Salt) 2 cups Brown Sugar 4 Tbs. Black Pepper 5 crushed Bay Leaves 2 Tbs. Taragon 6 Tbs. Garlic Powder 6 Tbs. BBQ Seasoning 3 Tbs. Oregano 3 "Shakes" Red Cayenne Pepper
Mix thoroughly
Place fish in PLASTIC containers NOT METAL Zip Lock Bags work well but any plastic or glass containers will do Cover fish with above Brine and DO NOT "over crowd"(the fish MUST be able to soak up the brine) Place fish/brine in fridge and let soak for at LEAST 12 hours,,,,longer is MUCH better
After brining,,,,,, Rinse fish LIGHTLY and hang each piece where it can dry. This is done best if there is a slight breeze out doors as air movement is a MUST If no breeze and or you want to do this step in doors a fan can be used
Let fish hang until there is a "leather like" texture on the surface of the fish.This is called the "PELLICLE"and is VERY important to keep the fish moist during smoking.
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Place fish on greased grates in smoker (Pam works well for this)
Smoke fish at no higher then 90 F for at least 2 hours
Smoke fish for 5-10 hours at no higher then 190 F
We smoked about 30 lbs of salmon and it was out of this world!
I've tried to do this and have found that I can't do it in warm temps of summer because I can't keep the initial smoking temp down.It works best in winter or colder days in fall. connrock
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