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Post by captbob on Jan 3, 2015 19:35:01 GMT -5
I don't actually know if you have to. Probably not. But, I do. I also keep all my plastic pellets and ceramic media in separate marked tupperware type containers so that I can use the correct fillers in each stage. You wouldn't want to use the fillers from a 60/90 run in a 500 cycle because the grit may carry over in the filler and wreck the finer grit or polish cycle. I also recommend getting one of these from The Rock Shed. Although, many use a colander. They fit right on a 5 gal bucket and make cleaning the rocks and fillers super easy. I use the 1/12" one found half way down this page: www.therockshed.com/grit1.html
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matt2432
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2014
Posts: 171
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Post by matt2432 on Jan 3, 2015 20:07:09 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the tips.
Captbob - I have a couple of classifying screens already purchased specifically for that purpose, gotta love the rock shed. I need to work on organizing though, the tubberware is a good idea.
So for saving polish, I wouldn't necessarily need to get an entire separate barrel for polish, I can just keep it in a container until the next polish batch? I can see how having a separate barrel would be convenient though.That's good info to know. Is there any other grit that you can re-use?
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Post by braders on Jan 4, 2015 15:19:19 GMT -5
Does anyone have any experience with putting a BIG rock in say a12-15 pound barrel... lets say a rock that is just 2 inches diameter less than the inside of the barrel? And putting in a lot of fines and letting it go? I have a big rounded, nearly polished jasper cobble that I am dying to polish.... Yes I have I have a 15# thumbler and have pushed it to the limit lol . I did a very large opalite that was to cool to break up so told the tumbler lets see what you can do baby doll !!! The filler was all very small crushed of the same material, it ground up nicely just seemed to me it took longer then the rest . But hey this hobby is all about patience anyway lol . Cheers !!
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Post by pghram on Jan 4, 2015 19:14:08 GMT -5
Do you need to keep the polish from drying out or anything? What if your only running a polish batch every 4 months or so? I reuse Tin ox, but I don't have a dedicated barrel. I didn't think of that, it might be a good idea for reusing polish. I rinse everything into a lagre plastic (heavy duty) container. You do not have to keep it wet at all, it can dry out. When mine settles I carefully pour off some clear water, & repeat after it's settled again. When I reuse it I scoop out wet goop from the bottom, 1 TBS per lb, then I stir/swirl the remaining liquid and use it for the water in the barrel. I add some new from time to time & it seems to work better w/ use. Rich
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on Jan 5, 2015 9:42:24 GMT -5
Lovin this thread, because I am just getting to the point where I want to re-use some grits and slurries... I am going to start using my two 6# barrels for polish only... and I've been saving containers to store various grits and such in!
Is there any reason to save a slurry from a rough grind?? I actually saved my last polish slurry with throw away smalls (pea gravel) and used it to start my next rough batch with (adding coarse grit of course, but basically reusing the pea gravel smalls and the slurry... )
I have two rocks... one is marginal, probably a 5 pound rock... and the other is about 7 pounds, probably too big.... but I may have to give them a shot... they both look like they will be amazing polished.....
Thanks again!
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azgnoinc
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by azgnoinc on Jan 5, 2015 10:43:46 GMT -5
Do you need to keep the polish from drying out or anything? What if your only running a polish batch every 4 months or so? Matt, I save & reuse all grades of my slurries - I just pour the rinsed off slurry into a plastic coffee containers & let them sit - the grit/polish/slurry will settle out to the bottom & you can easily pour off 95% of the water - especially if you are only using the polish/slurry every few months - I find it takes about a week to 10 days for the settling to completely occur in the coffee containers. You can label each lid to keep track of whats what & they're stackable to save room. And like captbob said- if you are using plastic pellets they are only ever used for one grade of the process - don't try & use the for multiple stages or you will cross contaminate your batches cause the pellets will have the grit embedded in them - especially at your lower stages.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
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Post by jamesp on Jan 5, 2015 10:52:29 GMT -5
Like Rich, I use a tub too. Dump the coarse grind batch into the tub, and wash the barrel lightly into the tub to get all possible grit out.
Let it settle for a few minutes, remove the rocks by hand, and pour off the liquid carefully leaving the solids on the bottom.
After 5-7 days the coarse grit is usually ground to nothing. You will see the coarse grit particles on the bottom if any are left.
Or you can sprinkle a pinch it the tub to see what fresh coarse grit looks like to compare.
So it is not normally salvageable after it has done it's job.
Polish on the other hand can be reused to a point.
Never done a 5 pounder, but seen it done. I think small rocks are put in with the single 5 pound chunk. probably sort of a dedicated tumble.
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on Jan 5, 2015 13:20:32 GMT -5
how would polish ever not be salvageable? I mean... does it actually break down too small to be a polish or does it actually start sharp then get rounded on a micro-scale??
Also, could you use ground up coarse grit at say a 500 grit run/level?
Lastly, since this thread seems to be going this way... what actually happens if you dont rinse out your coarse grind... say its obviously ground down to a fine... then just add your 120-220... Then after that is ground down... just add your 500... what is the actual use of rinsing and cleaning between runs? I know partially you have to worry if there is any coarse left that will contaminate the finer grind, but I checked my coarse grind yesterday after 8 days of spinning and there was nothing gritty about it... it seems like polish!
Thanks!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
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Post by jamesp on Jan 5, 2015 14:03:26 GMT -5
how would polish ever not be salvageable? I mean... does it actually break down too small to be a polish or does it actually start sharp then get rounded on a micro-scale?? Also, could you use ground up coarse grit at say a 500 grit run/level? Lastly, since this thread seems to be going this way... what actually happens if you dont rinse out your coarse grind... say its obviously ground down to a fine... then just add your 120-220... Then after that is ground down... just add your 500... what is the actual use of rinsing and cleaning between runs? I know partially you have to worry if there is any coarse left that will contaminate the finer grind, but I checked my coarse grind yesterday after 8 days of spinning and there was nothing gritty about it... it seems like polish! Thanks! I would say all polishes break down eventually. some faster than others. Some people reuse it many times. Different polishes act different, some turn into smooth balls, some break sharp. It is a science beyond me on that level. Letting grit run and break down is done. Seems like 500 and 1000 break down and make a good transition. I've done that. When it comes to coarse silicon carbide grit, it seems to crush past 220 too fast to spank a 220 finish down. It is a bit of an unknown as to what grit size it is, but it is small. Take no chances that early. I would do a 220 run, and let it get the scratches from the coarse grit out, and break down for a smooth 500 transition. I skip 1000 and go to polish on agate-500 to 14,000- bang. Always done well with that grit skip w/agate in a rotary. Rinsing is most important in the coarse stage, when the rocks are grinding fast and mud is building up so thick the rocks hardly get ground by the grit. 500 1000 and polish never grind enough meat off the rocks to make a thick muddy slurry
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on Jan 5, 2015 15:43:02 GMT -5
Thats all great info James... thank you very much. I appreciate it. I have been chomping at the bit here... and am really excited to see my new 45# box of 80 grit is "out for delivery" in Billings! Wooohooo! I'll be able to recharge my barrel tonight!!
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Post by pghram on Jan 5, 2015 16:51:01 GMT -5
how would polish ever not be salvageable? I mean... does it actually break down too small to be a polish or does it actually start sharp then get rounded on a micro-scale?? Also, could you use ground up coarse grit at say a 500 grit run/level? Lastly, since this thread seems to be going this way... what actually happens if you dont rinse out your coarse grind... say its obviously ground down to a fine... then just add your 120-220... Then after that is ground down... just add your 500... what is the actual use of rinsing and cleaning between runs? I know partially you have to worry if there is any coarse left that will contaminate the finer grind, but I checked my coarse grind yesterday after 8 days of spinning and there was nothing gritty about it... it seems like polish! Thanks! In answer to your last question, I think the slurry would eventually become too thick. My course grinds get very thick sometimes. Some people use course & let the thing run for months w/o adding any other grit. I've never tried it, though. Rich
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 6, 2015 12:54:30 GMT -5
Lovin this thread, because I am just getting to the point where I want to re-use some grits and slurries... I am going to start using my two 6# barrels for polish only... and I've been saving containers to store various grits and such in! Is there any reason to save a slurry from a rough grind?? I actually saved my last polish slurry with throw away smalls (pea gravel) and used it to start my next rough batch with (adding coarse grit of course, but basically reusing the pea gravel smalls and the slurry... ) I have two rocks... one is marginal, probably a 5 pound rock... and the other is about 7 pounds, probably too big.... but I may have to give them a shot... they both look like they will be amazing polished..... Thanks again! Save and re-use your polish. It does not, however, have an infinite life. At some point it will stop polishing. Many folks do reuse or recharge their rough grind slurries. IMHO cleaning out is the better way to go. Too much or too thick a slurry slows down the grinding process. I did an experiment testing cleanout and recharge. For the way I do things cleanout ground away more rock. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/post/772196/thread
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 6, 2015 13:13:44 GMT -5
I think I've tried most variations. A friend used only 60/90, ran a month adding a little more 60/90 each week. He did only Montana agates and they came out fine. In a 40 lb. tumbler I had I tried the coarse run, add 220 after 10 days without rinsing. Then a fast rinse and 500 run. Washed well before polish. Worked fine. I think if your rocks are ground smooth in coarse (no flaws) and you run the coarse until it is broken down completely you really don't have to go crazy washing between steps (except polish). I've heard of many people running any step another week and skipping following step. Rock tumbling is not rocket science. Ask any 20 experienced tumblers that successfully tumble and you will likely hear 20 different variations. Listen to different methods, try the ones that sound logical, and you will have your own method eventually. Best to stick to the book instructions until you have a few successful tumbles and then try variations.
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on Jan 7, 2015 10:14:33 GMT -5
Well, last night I completley washed all my rocks after being in a 40-60 grit run for nearly 11 days. The 40-60 was broke down to nothing... only a smooth, creamy texture.
I recharged my 12# barrel with about another cup of pea gravel, plus about 5 more rocks... and 13 tbs of my new 80 grit!! Gonna let her go about a week and open up.
WooHoo!
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Post by captbob on Jan 7, 2015 10:31:24 GMT -5
Hey Ernie, there are so many different threads going that I can't keep up. What are you tumbling this round? Really liked the picture you posted of your first batch on that tray thing. You're off to a great start!
I have made it a habit to pull out some rocks and add different new rough during the first few cycles of the coarse grit. If a rock is looking like it has just too many nooks and crannies to keep up with the rest of the load, out it goes to be run at the start of another coarse cycle. This way, I don't invest a lot of time in a rock that ain't gonna keep up. Some rocks just need to be set aside to work on later, like trimming them up some on a saw or with a grinder.
Again, I can't keep up... I saw a thread where you're looking at another large 3 barrel tumbler. But, do you gave any rock machines yet other than tumblers?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
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Post by jamesp on Jan 7, 2015 10:38:24 GMT -5
Well, last night I completley washed all my rocks after being in a 40-60 grit run for nearly 11 days. The 40-60 was broke down to nothing... only a smooth, creamy texture. I recharged my 12# barrel with about another cup of pea gravel, plus about 5 more rocks... and 13 tbs of my new 80 grit!! Gonna let her go about a week and open up. WooHoo! I have coral that I find locally; it is real hard, tumbles slow. So I turned up the speed on it to 60 RPM, a turn every second. It can take it. The coarse grit is mush after 3 days. always let it go for 4 days. I don't think the grit is useful for anything, maybe 500. but it is so mixed with mud it would be hard to separate anyway. another tumbler turns real slow at 12 RPM for tender stones. It takes 6-8 days to break the coarse grit down in it. if tumbling a bunch of larger rocks like 2-3 inch size, I fill the barrel to 2/3, and keep adding small broken glass or small stuff till all the voids are filled up. So fill barrel with 2/3 big rocks, add a cup or two of smalls, run it for 10 minutes. If it is still 2/3 full then I add more, till all the voids from the big rocks are filled up. it can take 4 cups or more to fill the voids on 14-16 pounds of bigger rock, and still have a 2/3 full barrel. Then add grit. Not only does it carry the grit well but it adds rolling weight for pressure and smoother grinding action. If you are going to tumble big rocks, you could get garnets in Montana creeks, those things are real heavy and hard. Just saying, garnets probably better than most gravels. Since they are abrasive too. some garnets are cool tumbles, especially in your neck of the woods.
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hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on Jan 8, 2015 10:44:47 GMT -5
Thanks again...James and Capn...
James, so... tell me more about the montana garnets. I am a fairly active rockhounder and have been from one end of MT to the other, and through much of Idaho... and am not familiar with many garnet places... I do know the ruby reservoir area has a lot of garnet material... so you are saying, If I tumble a big rock, I could/should use a bunch of garnet as filler? If you have any ideas for actual sites... please share!
Capn, I am tumbling a mix of stuff right now,most of it unidentified... there are a few bigger japsper cobbles (between golf and baseball size)... a bunch of stuff that is just different, i dont think as hard, but we'll see... some Ystone again... some pet wood, but they agate and wood is minimal percentage. I through a bunch of stuff in that I just "wondered" about... to see how it would clean up.
I never thought much about culling stones out through the process and adding others and such, I was always thinking, "Throw these rocks in, run them till they are done"... but now I see how to do it... pull out stuff that is ready for next stage put more in, and make that rough tumble barrel just a perpetual roll...
Lastly Bob, I currently have the Lortone 12 running but have two 6# barrels also. I have the double 15# machine that I am going to replace the pillow blocks on... then I have a frame and rollers for another 12-15# rig, but need a motor (buddy has one that I need to pick up)... SO plan is to have the two 15#ers and the 12#er running with rough as much as possible, and use the two 6# barrels to polish... unless I am polishing a big stone, I'll use one of the bigger barrels...
I have no other rock equipment. I want a slab saw, nothing huge, maybe a 10". I want a trim saw. I would like a grinding wheel or two. So yeah... Even as i posted the thread with the three 15# barrels, I knew if I was to buy it, it would only be a project and something I'd probably sell...
Thanks!!
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