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Post by stoner on Feb 13, 2015 0:12:55 GMT -5
You told us what the problem was in your first paragraph. You said the 1200 and 3000 wheels are cheap imports. It's those wheels that are giving you problems. These wheels are inconsistent with their grits. Been there, done that. Back to using Nova Wheels and refurbishing them myself.
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Post by parfive on Feb 13, 2015 0:25:35 GMT -5
You have a 10x loupe. Have you inspected the suspect 1200 wheel with it?
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deserthound
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 390
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Post by deserthound on Feb 13, 2015 1:09:53 GMT -5
I assume its a water cooling system, is it a recirculating system, or is fresh clean water being feed at all times system...your wheels did looked a bit coated for a wet system is why i ask..
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 13, 2015 6:28:36 GMT -5
It's a recirculating water system. The wheels are new, so I'm not sure they're broken in yet, but they be by now. I'll play around more after work and report back.
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deserthound
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 390
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Post by deserthound on Feb 13, 2015 11:54:28 GMT -5
ahhhhh a recir system is what i HAD, come to find out the water is contaminated from one grit to the other..i had the small scratches also... started running clean water and now the result are much better....dirty water was my problem...just thought i throw that out there maybe it will help...good luck..
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 13, 2015 13:38:42 GMT -5
I know that the recirculated water could be the problem. However, I've read stuff here from others who don't have a problem with recirculated water and the guy I bought it from used it this way without a problem. I'll have to do some research to find out how much it would cost to make a drip system, then I wouldn't have to wonder.
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Post by phil on Feb 13, 2015 15:55:22 GMT -5
Recirc water is not usually a problem when you're using all diamond. It's only a contamination problem with SiC wheels. Diamond CAN be a problem only if you're using cheap wheels that throw off diamond grit which then gets picked up by the spitter. IF that's the case, simply clean out and change the water when you go from the hard wheels coarser grit to the finer soft wheels. Or buy better grade wheels. You didn't by chance buy your wheels from Johnson brothers did you? We tried them once. used them for about 15 minutes and had the diamond hitting us in the face.... we threw them away and bought good wheels instead. Never again.... That was a big waste of money for that we spent for 6 wheels. I've tried the following ways to clean contaminated wheels, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. And sometimes the manuf just goofed and when I complained, they replaced them free.
Credit card scrape while running with very wet Sponge off afterwards. Total scrub and wash at the sink. Power wash. Slab edge scrape and then wash.
Good Luck!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 13, 2015 16:20:59 GMT -5
My guess is that maybe in breaking in the wheels, they lost more diamond that got thrown back up on later wheels. I tried to avoid this by changing water between the wheels at first, but I may have stopped changing water too soon.
I got the cheap wheels from Chuck who has had good luck with them. We've all seen Chuck's awesome cabs, so I believe Chuck fully. It may be that I got a bad one and he got a good one, but they weren't expensive, so I'm not worried about it. Besides, The cheap wheels were the finest grit, so them losing diamonds should only affect the very last wheel and I'm having problems with the second to last wheel.
I'm going to play around more tonight. I think with all the advice here, I might be able to get this working.
Thanks everyone, I'll keep you posted.
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Feb 13, 2015 16:32:36 GMT -5
A good way to clean your wheels is with a spray bottle of water and a tooth brush, spray the wheels while holding a tooth brush against it, and always clean your wheels backwards.... from the finest wheel down to the coarsest. This way any grit that gets onto the wheel will probably be finer than the wheel and not be a problem.
Also, I find that if contamination occurs, it will happen between the 220 & 280 wheels. If you have dirty water after the 220 wheel, then you need to clean it out and use clean water. I use clean water at least every other wheel and have no problems that way. then clean the wheels when done for the day.
Good Luck with it!!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 13, 2015 20:45:12 GMT -5
Ok, I got back to my machine. I don't think anything is contaminated. I think I'm not being patient enough.
I inspected the suspect wheel, but didn't really know what I was looking for. I couldn't see anything that was obviously out of place. I scrubbed it with a toothbrush while it was turning. Then I ran my rock on it some more just in case it wasn't broken in.
So then I started over. I took the rock back to the 220 wheel and ran it in only one direction, so the scratches would all go the same way. I inspected it and Sharpied it. I repeated this with the other wheels, but turned the rock 90 degrees each time so I could tell if the scratches were old or new. I skipped the 1200 wheel and went right from 600 to 3000. The 3000 wasn't able to remove the 600 scratches. I could tell because the 600 scratches were perpendicular to my 3000 grinding. No new scratches were produced. The rock was not getting shiny either. So I took the rock back to the 1200 wheel.
On the 1200 wheel, the rock gets shiny, but I can still see the 600 scratches. There are no new deeper scratches that I could see, but I could still see the scratches from the 600 wheel. The rock got shiny on the 1200 wheel.
So here's my question: How long should I be spending on each wheel? I think maybe I'm just not spending enough time.
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Post by phil on Feb 13, 2015 21:33:11 GMT -5
The real questions are how hard are you pushing the dop and how long are YOU spending... If you are still seeing scratches, then not long enough. Pretty simple. For me, at the pressure I use, I send 70% of my time on the 280 (final shaping) and 600 (prepolishing). Then about 5 minutes each at 3000, 14K and if needed, 50K. But times are not a fixed thing.... it TOTALLY depends on what kind of stone you're doing. Obviously, an agate takes longer than turquoise or lapis or other soft stones. And Jade takes forever. Petrified wood takes longer times. Travertine, soapstone are fast.... you get all that I'm sure. So.... how long and how hard are YOU doing... I tell my students that their pressure should LIGHTLY dimple the surface of the soft wheel so that an area the size of a pencil eraser is in full contact at all times. They usually are not pushing hard enough. And then I watch them, and they spend a minute or two and think they should be done.... NOT! Lapidary is a skill that teaches zen like patience and concentration.... I had one student who just couldn't get the time down. WAY too impatient starting at the 600. I told her to sing Amazing Grace 3 times before she even thought about looking. I even had her do the magic marker trick. As soon as the black was gone, she expected perfection. So, amazing grace, long version, 3 times, completely! I sent her back to the 600 so many times, the other students complained they weren't getting any riding time. It's been 3 years, and she still doesn't get it. The other instructors usually end up finishing her stones for her.... I refuse.
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Post by phil on Feb 13, 2015 21:34:32 GMT -5
I forgot.... some stones just don't ever stop scratching..... the fibers actually split....
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Post by broseph82 on Feb 16, 2015 17:21:36 GMT -5
Yep I sometimes have the same problem depending on the rock. You're going to get a general answer I suspect. After you've been on a particular grit dry it on a cloth or your shirt and look at it with a loupe when you think you're ready. Grind check grind check grind check move on. JugglerguyI can't stand it when someone else comes in and does it for me or tries to do it for me. You'll never learn the craft that way. Had a guy teach me how to make "3-D" crosses. Had some lapis. Soft stone, but he was making sure he did this and that before handing it to me, but yet he was wanting to show me how to make them. I learned a little but not 100% how to make it just because he wanted to do most of the technical work. phil
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Post by gingerkid on Feb 16, 2015 17:40:32 GMT -5
I had one student who just couldn't get the time down. WAY too impatient starting at the 600. I told her to sing Amazing Grace 3 times before she even thought about looking. I even had her do the magic marker trick. As soon as the black was gone, she expected perfection. So, amazing grace, long version, 3 times, completely! I sent her back to the 600 so many times, the other students complained they weren't getting any riding time. It's been 3 years, and she still doesn't get it. The other instructors usually end up finishing her stones for her.... I refuse. ROFL, and thanks for the tip, phil. Will have to give it a try.
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