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Post by rockpickerforever on Feb 9, 2016 13:06:28 GMT -5
Picked up this chunk of very old pottery at the swapmeet on Sunday. I believe the seller misremembered where he got it from, said something about of friend of his that was into sculpture. He thought that she had made it. I knew the moment I saw it that it was very old. At first, I had thought it could have been something found locally. There was a very large Native American presence here years ago.
But I asked another seller that is there all the time (he is knowledgeable in Indian artifacts) if he had any ideas about it. He said it is way too thick to be something that was made by the local Indians. His thought was that it is Middle Eastern, and he thought it could be perhaps a vegetable scraper. Some kind of scraper. Maybe a back scratcher, lol?
The coloring is what fired pots from this area would look like. To my eye, anyway, I am no expert.
I fits perfectly in the hand.
Close up of the clay.
Definitely not something mass-produced with modern techniques.
So something cool, even if I don't know exactly what it is. And now for the best part.
When I asked the guy how much he wanted for it, I had to FORCE myself not to get excited whilst I calmly took 50 cents out of my wallet and handed it to him.
If anybody has any thoughts on this, by all means, let me know! Thanks for looking.
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Post by RickB on Feb 9, 2016 15:25:55 GMT -5
Nice artifact and great price. Just taking a guess here, but could it have been dampened with water and then pressed into an unfinished piece of pottery to make a pattern?
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 9, 2016 15:27:25 GMT -5
I really have no clue, but it could also be something from ancient South or Central America. I find the hand fit intriguing. Super great buy!
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 9, 2016 15:37:44 GMT -5
Scored a nice piece of history there Jean..........Two thumbs up
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Post by rockpickerforever on Feb 9, 2016 15:53:23 GMT -5
I really have no clue, but it could also be something from ancient South or Central America. I find the hand fit intriguing. Super great buy! Could be from South or Central America. The Middle East was just this one guy's guess. The hand fit is amazing, no doubt it was meant to be held and used. Nice artifact and great price. Just taking a guess here, but could it have been dampened with water and then pressed into an unfinished piece of pottery to make a pattern? Thanks, Rick. Yes, that was my first thought, that it was used to imprint something else. Whether it was pottery, food (cakes of maize?), I suppose anything is possible. Could probably find out more by taking it to the Museum of Man here in San Diego, but hesitant to do that. You never know if they would let me walk back out of there with it!
That patterning is what attracted me to it in the first place. Had no idea it was old, or possibly old. Not surer at this point in time.
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Post by Pat on Feb 9, 2016 16:07:14 GMT -5
Whatever it is, it is neat! I'd stick it upright in a flower pot with flowers in it. I'd also still try to find out about it.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2016 18:25:49 GMT -5
Looks like crude fired clay with rock particles in it, unscreened right out of the clay pit. Texture very similar to the pottery shards found in the SE. Pottery like that points at about 2000+/- years old and newer out here in the east. Woodland thru Mississippian age. Ohio area culture perhaps. Never found such ornate pottery in the SE, but close. The shear thickness is really rare. Very possibly a stamp. Here is some woodland era eastern pottery shards that could have well been stamped by your discovery. The concave shape sure makes it look like a finished pot stamp.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Feb 9, 2016 18:35:17 GMT -5
Picked up this chunk of very old pottery at the swapmeet on Sunday. I believe the seller misremembered where he got it from, said something about of friend of his that was into sculpture. He thought that she had made it. I knew the moment I saw it that it was very old. At first, I had thought it could have been something found locally. There was a very large Native American presence here years ago.
But I asked another seller that is there all the time (he is knowledgeable in Indian artifacts) if he had any ideas about it. He said it is way too thick to be something that was made by the local Indians. His thought was that it is Middle Eastern, and he thought it could be perhaps a vegetable scraper. Some kind of scraper. Maybe a back scratcher, lol?
If anybody has any thoughts on this, by all means, let me know! Thanks for looking.
Ok, I'm letting you know. I might be off my meds but... When I look at each individual triangle I see a portrait of a person. Really. A waist-up portrait with the right arm folded over in front of them. Possibly sitting in front of a triangular window. Ok...I let you know!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2016 18:39:06 GMT -5
Georgia pottery is certainly stamped, repetition of designs proves it. Most woodland and Mississipian era pottery is.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2016 18:43:42 GMT -5
Check stamped
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2016 18:46:35 GMT -5
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Post by Pat on Feb 9, 2016 18:56:56 GMT -5
Agree with Intheswamp Reminds me of saints? apostles? in church windows or in wayside stations. All just a little different. Not on meds
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Feb 9, 2016 19:07:44 GMT -5
Pat, you are right on track with my thinking...even to all of them being a little bit different.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Feb 9, 2016 19:17:59 GMT -5
James, have you ever studied about the "cult complex" that ties Etowa, GA, Moundville, AL, and Spiro, AR together? They all share similar shapes, human images, eagle images. BUT...in Spiro they get bizarre in putting eagle heads on human forms.... Southeast Ceremonial (Cult) ComplexHave you ever been over to Kolomoki Mounds just south of Fort Gaines? Their temple mound is probably the steepest that I've ever seen...more steep than the one at Moundville. Only thing is they don't have (or didn't have at one time) many artifacts from the site in the museum...they were burglarized many years ago back in (I think) the 70's.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Feb 9, 2016 19:29:14 GMT -5
It makes you wonder, doesn't it? Was it tornadoes? whirlpools? something in the sky? crop circles (of a sort). It's like a maze...circles, lines, and divots. How many times have I picked up a piece of pottery with a swirl on it, or hatching??? Some places give me the "willies"...lots of "feeling" in some old village sites. I once stumbled upon about a fifth of a bowl broken in pieces lying in a bottom-plowed field...but what had me just about to freak was that there was a perfectly round bowl-shaped mass of grass roots laying beside the pieces....I hunted for several hours for the rest of it. For millennia they lived here and all they left behind was basically minerals that they had fashioned for their needs or desires.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2016 19:53:54 GMT -5
It makes you wonder, doesn't it? Was it tornadoes? whirlpools? something in the sky? crop circles (of a sort). It's like a maze...circles, lines, and divots. How many times have I picked up a piece of pottery with a swirl on it, or hatching??? Some places give me the "willies"...lots of "feeling" in some old village sites. I once stumbled upon about a fifth of a bowl broken in pieces lying in a bottom-plowed field...but what had me just about to freak was that there was a perfectly round bowl-shaped mass of grass roots laying beside the pieces....I hunted for several hours for the rest of it. For millennia they lived here and all they left behind was basically minerals that they had fashioned for their needs or desires. Native sites give me the goose bumps too Ed. Their use of lithic materials preceded all of us rockhounds. Can't help but think about people living their whole lives outside for many more generations than we have been here. 10-20 generations worth of hand me down knowledge of rock collecting spots. A raw quartz tipped spear taking down a deer ? Amazing talent, would not want that fellow stalking us through the woods; we would have no chance. Just the intense developments around Atlanta yield artifacts at about every site. Repetitive finds of distant source flints and cherts, hematite, quartz crystals, nutting stones, pestles, mortars, and oddities that were brought in from distant locations. Pottery patterns give DNA level certainty of associations with distant cultures. A big study in itself. You have to visit these native sites to really get into the reality of what happened and the fact these people walked over the same ground as you. Certainly they had equal intellect as we do, their minds were used for completely different tasks. Question-How quietly could he sneak thru the woods and move his body so that he was about undetected ? So he can catch his next meal. That may require an infinite amount of wisdom and practice. Anyway, I can relate to what you are saying above.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2016 22:20:11 GMT -5
Ed, Atlanta is 100 mile north of Ocmulgee and 100 miles south of Etowah. Etowah has mostly black flint and Ocmulgee has more colorful coastal chert. All granite between. We find more black flint than coastal chert because the rivers flow south from Etowah direction. Atlanta is dividing line and point styles are mixed between the two.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Feb 9, 2016 23:02:09 GMT -5
It's amazing what history we walk over...people groups that simply will never be known to us. And to the the intellect...theirs was probably higher....I would probably die if I had to try and survive out in the elements with nothing but what I could make out of natural resources. Yeah, sometimes those sure'nuff places can really grab a'hold of you...it's like no other feeling, but they're rare and fleeting...savour it while it's there.
On a similar note... In days past I've often thought that I would like to go to Israel, Syria, Iraq and walk that ground, but....but not today.<sigh>
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Post by rockpickerforever on Feb 10, 2016 8:40:37 GMT -5
Thanks, Pat. Yes, I am still trying to find out more, although I expect jamesp has been investing more time looking than me! He will be the one to solve this riddle. But in the meantime, I am learning a lot about clay impressions.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 10, 2016 9:05:20 GMT -5
It's amazing what history we walk over...people groups that simply will never be known to us. And to the the intellect...theirs was probably higher....I would probably die if I had to try and survive out in the elements with nothing but what I could make out of natural resources. Yeah, sometimes those sure'nuff places can really grab a'hold of you...it's like no other feeling, but they're rare and fleeting...savour it while it's there. On a similar note... In days past I've often thought that I would like to go to Israel, Syria, Iraq and walk that ground, but....but not today.<sigh> Adaptation to environment. Ed, William Bartram wrote what he saw as he travelled through native man's turf. Late 1700's I believe, funded by England. Probably the best account of native man's practices. He mentioned the 'parti-colored' stones around Stoney Bluff Landing where they mined Savannah River agate. You would probably be mesmerized by his book. The gals did all the work and the guys hunted fished and made arrowheads just kidding.
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