metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Mar 16, 2016 16:44:14 GMT -5
The catch looks neat enough, but otherwise I'm a little dubious about the re-purposing of antique silver cutlery. I guess it depends in what condition they were to start and whether your work has added or (ahem) detracted from the existing piece aesthetic / value.
These hallmarks state the piece was made in Birmingham around the turn of the (last) century. Since Gorham production continued in the UK until the early 20th C, that makes the forks somewhere just over 100 years old. Man, you destroyed antique silver! Either that or it wasn't fit.
Either way, the problem with keeping the Hallmarks is that they represent the date and origin of the completion of work on the forks and keeping them amounts to a misrepresentation. Strictly speaking the item should be returned to Birmingham for the Hallmarks to be eradicated to enable re-purposing (or you melth the item completely). I note your motives in keeping the Hallmarks, but these are misplaced and re-importing it to the UK with these would amount to breaking the law - just for your info, as I doubt that's your intention. The danger is - as already attested by the forks, a good piece of work will stick around for 100 years and more and unfortunately you're unlikely to be around to clarify the issue.
Beyond, that, I like the organic, rib-cage appearance of the piece.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 16:54:40 GMT -5
The catch looks neat enough, but otherwise I'm a little dubious about the re-purposing of antique silver cutlery. I guess it depends in what condition they were to start and whether your work has added or (ahem) detracted from the existing piece aesthetic / value. These hallmarks state the piece was made in Birmingham around the turn of the (last) century. Since Gorham production continued in the UK until the early 20th C, that makes the forks somewhere just over 100 years old. Man, you destroyed antique silver! Either that or it wasn't fit. Either way, the problem with keeping the Hallmarks is that they represent the date and origin of the completion of work on the forks and keeping them amounts to a misrepresentation. Strictly speaking the item should be returned to Birmingham for the Hallmarks to be eradicated to enable re-purposing (or you melth the item completely). I note your motives in keeping the Hallmarks, but these are misplaced and re-importing it to the UK with these would amount to breaking the law - just for your info, as I doubt that's your intention. The danger is - as already attested by the forks, a good piece of work will stick around for 100 years and more and unfortunately you're unlikely to be around to clarify the issue. Beyond, that, I like the organic, rib-cage appearance of the piece. gee thanks.i guess.lol.-) just saying,and they were in absolutely stellar condition,it's what I look for when buying them.I actually have about 20 of them ranging in age from 100-150 years old.all destined for jewelry.what else am I supposed to do?look at them and watch them tarnish?lol
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
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Post by Tom on Mar 17, 2016 7:37:13 GMT -5
Dave that turned out really great, I wish I had just a slice of your inspiration pie! You come up with better and better designs while I struggle to come up with something other that a simple bezel setting. The catch is pure genius, if I need to do it I am stealing that idea.
Metalsmith, those forks were destined for the melting pot, now they will we worn by someone and all those lovely hallmarks will be saved. Unless you happen upon a piece of sterling at a garage sale or some venue like that you can be assured that there is no collector value in the actual piece. These forks came from a scrap metal dealer, and the dealer valued them at melt plus a premium to buy them. If there was collector value they would certainly be sold as that as they would fetch the dealer way more money.
It makes no sense to me to remove the hallmarks, they are beautiful and add to the piece, and if I were the founder of Gorham I would be very happy to have them around for another 1000 years. That's my opinion only and I also understand that there are different laws for different countries.
I use to deal in ancient antiquities (mostly ancient coins and small artifacts), I found that Britain had and has the most sensible laws of any country (where such treasures are found) regarding finding and preserving these items. Once the British museum determined that there was no significant CULTURAL value the items are returned to the finder. If there is historical value the items are kept and fair market price is paid to the finder. This really really helps stop people from finding important hordes of ancient coins and not reporting them. Other countries just confiscate them, what would you do if you found them:)
That being said I find it rather odd that Britain would rather destroy hallmarks or melt them down rather than re-purpose them. Never the less millions of these pieces came to North America in the past several hundred years. Here in Canada you can pretty much melt up what you want as long as you are not mis representing the purity of the metal. If those forks had collector value you would see them on eBay IMHO.
I am not going to take the time to look on flea bay for these forks but only guess that if they are there it the price will be melt plus premium. If they are collectors items and Dave did not check and they are worth a fortune then it sucks to be Dave.
Great piece Dave, again you amaze me at what that mind of yours comes up with for new ideas.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 7:58:38 GMT -5
Thanks Tom.you are correct.all the pieces are destined for meltdown.maybe like they have groups to save the whales,they will start one for flatware??i bet if those forks could talk they would praise me to the heavens and give me a verbal high-5.if they had value beyond meltdown,you can bet for sure they would know.like Taylor Swift sings(my daughter listens to her,lol)I'm going to shake the haters off.
Metal smith we are all ready for you to amaze us with some more of your whimsical creations.make sure there "neat enough". Dave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 10:58:34 GMT -5
The catch looks neat enough, but otherwise I'm a little dubious about the re-purposing of antique silver cutlery. I guess it depends in what condition they were to start and whether your work has added or (ahem) detracted from the existing piece aesthetic / value. These hallmarks state the piece was made in Birmingham around the turn of the (last) century. Since Gorham production continued in the UK until the early 20th C, that makes the forks somewhere just over 100 years old. Man, you destroyed antique silver! Either that or it wasn't fit. Either way, the problem with keeping the Hallmarks is that they represent the date and origin of the completion of work on the forks and keeping them amounts to a misrepresentation. Strictly speaking the item should be returned to Birmingham for the Hallmarks to be eradicated to enable re-purposing (or you melth the item completely). I note your motives in keeping the Hallmarks, but these are misplaced and re-importing it to the UK with these would amount to breaking the law - just for your info, as I doubt that's your intention. The danger is - as already attested by the forks, a good piece of work will stick around for 100 years and more and unfortunately you're unlikely to be around to clarify the issue. Beyond, that, I like the organic, rib-cage appearance of the piece. Sucks to live in Great Britain! You guys can't even repurpose an old fork. Dang. Metalsmith, in North America, we don't give a rip about the details in UK hallmark law. Not a hoot. We do sincerely appreciate you shared that with us though. Makes it all the more obvious our founding fathers did a good thing. May I gather the whimsical concept of silver cutlery repurposed as jewelry is lost across the pond? I'm glad you described the organic rib cage look. I too liked it, but until I read your words, I couldn't say why. Thanks!
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Mar 17, 2016 16:37:03 GMT -5
Sucks to live in Great Britain! You guys can't even repurpose an old fork. Dang. Metalsmith, in North America, we don't give a rip about the details in UK hallmark law. Not a hoot. We do sincerely appreciate you shared that with us though. Makes it all the more obvious our founding fathers did a good thing. May I gather the whimsical concept of silver cutlery repurposed as jewelry is lost across the pond? I'm glad you described the organic rib cage look. I too liked it, but until I read your words, I couldn't say why. Thanks! There is an active market in repurposed cutlery: 1) Folk who don't know that they're breaking the law 2) Those that operate within it. I appreciate your lack of need to consider UK law - unless it was sold back over to Blighty then the UK Assay couldn't give a hoot either; and if you did, most likely it would pass under their radar, so I was also 'just saying'. Dave, if you can buy forks cheaper than bullion, then go for it. Don't fear, I'll knock something up in due course. This week I've mainly been grinding rocks... The more forks that get melted, the greater the value of my antiques. Win-win.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 17:10:44 GMT -5
I appreciate them as well I have pieces that have been in my family since the early to mid 1800's.these get looked at and are used when I Dine on prime-rib.(makes me feel special)lol.the ones I repurpose are not cheap by any means $40-$60.but I feel no remorse. Dave
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 17, 2016 17:31:42 GMT -5
That is really cool. Great job!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 18:01:29 GMT -5
That is really cool. Great job!!! thank you kind sir. Dave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 18:31:23 GMT -5
Sucks to live in Great Britain! You guys can't even repurpose an old fork. Dang. Metalsmith, in North America, we don't give a rip about the details in UK hallmark law. Not a hoot. We do sincerely appreciate you shared that with us though. Makes it all the more obvious our founding fathers did a good thing. May I gather the whimsical concept of silver cutlery repurposed as jewelry is lost across the pond? I'm glad you described the organic rib cage look. I too liked it, but until I read your words, I couldn't say why. Thanks! There is an active market in repurposed cutlery: 1) Folk who don't know that they're breaking the law 2) Those that operate within it. I appreciate your lack of need to consider UK law - unless it was sold back over to Blighty then the UK Assay couldn't give a hoot either; and if you did, most likely it would pass under their radar, so I was also 'just saying'. Dave, if you can buy forks cheaper than bullion, then go for it. Don't fear, I'll knock something up in due course. This week I've mainly been grinding rocks... The more forks that get melted, the greater the value of my antiques. Win-win. Thanks for taking it the right way. Waiting patiently to see what you knock up.
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Mar 18, 2016 14:29:30 GMT -5
Metalsmith, those forks were destined for the melting pot, now they will we worn by someone and all those lovely hallmarks will be saved. I found that Britain had and has the most sensible laws of any country (where such treasures are found) regarding finding and preserving these items. I find it rather odd that Britain would rather destroy hallmarks or melt them down rather than re-purpose them. Here in Canada you can pretty much melt up what you want as long as you are not mis representing the purity of the metal. Tom I've cut down your post for brevity; I hope to have preserved the context / meaning. You were recently asking about hallmarks / makers marks. The Hallmark is the Assay office (Government's) quality control and the makers mark is registered with the Assay Office or the maker can apply it themselves if the item is under the cutoff weight. So the product of Dave's labours carries another maker's mark - Gorham made these,is what the makers mark says. Apart from the clasp, that's pretty much the case, anyhow. However there is likely to be more demand for a piece to wear than to dine with, so I can see why re-purposing is attractive. That the material was QA'd by UK Govt. is respected worldwide so you would probably find that a piece is bullion spot + premium + UK hallmark premium (France is the same). Re sensible laws, that is not always the case: it used to be that the penalty for interfering with a hallmarked item was death and to my knowlege it is a strong urban myth / fact that the shooting dead of a Scotsman with a bow and arrow from the castle walls remains legal. But generally they don't do so bad. If the item was melted, the Hallmarks would be destroyed and there wouldn't be an issue in their identification / potential misrepresentation. Now I'm off to grind some Arizona Turquoise, it makes a delighfully coloured paint.
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Post by snowmom on Mar 20, 2016 6:57:12 GMT -5
clever and cool... love it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 8:12:44 GMT -5
clever and cool... love it! thank you Snowmom.
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