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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 1, 2016 8:20:56 GMT -5
Well I bit the bullet and ordered a bunch of tools to try bezel setting. This is just a scrap cab and it was just an exercise to try my first solder joins. I started with the Smith brand silversmith torch kit but learned quickly that the 00 size tip it came with was not sufficient for heating the bezel so I ordered a size 0 and a size 1 and that did the trick. Thank you rockjunquie and Roger for helping with tool selection Three joins. The bezel wire join, the bezel to back plate, and a strip soldered on to form a bail. I did some filing and sanding just to see how the joint would look but the piece is not truly worth finishing any further. Looking forward to messing around a bit more this weekend. Thanks for looking Chuck
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Post by orrum on Jul 1, 2016 8:29:20 GMT -5
Chuck cut a piece of plastic butter tub type top to put under the cab. It cushions the cab so it doesn't crack from the pressure of pushing the bezel down or from expansion n contraction as temps change. Plus it raises the stone up to display better. I think it looks pretty darn good!!! My instructor always said use a great cab....it makes the setting improve in overall appearance!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 1, 2016 8:38:36 GMT -5
Chuck cut a piece of plastic butter tub type top to put under the cab. It cushions the cab so it doesn't crack from the pressure of pushing the bezel down or from expansion n contraction as temps change. Plus it raises the stone up to display better. I think it looks pretty darn good!!! My instructor always said use a great cab....it makes the setting improve in overall appearance! Lots to learn. The only torch I had even seen before this was in youtube videos,lol Chuck
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jul 1, 2016 9:06:33 GMT -5
That looks really good, Chuck. I wish I could make some more intelligent comments, but I don't have any knowledge at all about metal work.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 1, 2016 9:15:10 GMT -5
That looks really good, Chuck. I wish I could make some more intelligent comments, but I don't have any knowledge at all about metal work. Thanks Rob. I really do not care about looks right now. I just want to get the hang of the torch and tight solder joints. Years ago I tried doing some plumbing using copper soldered joints and never really got the hang of it so I am going to spend some time just practicing joins before I go any further. My brain tells me to go heavy on the solder to form a strong bond but it did not take long to realize excess solder means tons of extra work in filing and sanding. Chuck
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 1, 2016 10:37:17 GMT -5
Great going! Glad to see you diving right in. Yes, too much solder means too much work.
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Post by orrum on Jul 1, 2016 10:40:55 GMT -5
You will get it Chuck just keep burning!!! Remember pickle is your friend!!!
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Post by radio on Jul 1, 2016 17:43:23 GMT -5
looks like you jumped right in and making good progress! A cab with a uniform girdle all the way around greatly simplifies bezel settin. I keep a #4 tip on my torch for all but the larger cuff bracelets that need more heat. IMHO, too small of a tip is as bad, if not worse than an oversize one. I second Orrum's plastic filler and it works very well, but the girdle must be uniform on the cab or you end up with more bezel folded in one area that the other and it looks tacky. The Native Americans were, and still are, quite fond of very fine sawdust as a leveling agent and to raise the cab in the bezel. It's very common to see a tall bezel surrounding Turquoise, but if the stone is removed, the cab is quite thin and the bezel is filled with sawdust. Good luck, and keep after it If I can be of help, drop me a PM
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 1, 2016 20:30:56 GMT -5
looks like you jumped right in and making good progress! A cab with a uniform girdle all the way around greatly simplifies bezel settin. Good luck, and keep after it If I can be of help, drop me a PM Thanks for the offer. I am so overwhelmed at the moment I would not know where to start asking questions. I tried another today and the bezel cup came out really good and fit the stone great but I spent way too much time on filing and sanding (well over an hour). I am guessing that is where the foredom and a bunch of accessories come into play. I'll have to start saving up for finishing tools. Firescale on the two I have done so far has also been an issue that requires a lot of time to remove. Chuck
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Post by orrum on Jul 1, 2016 21:40:52 GMT -5
Use borax as your flux Chuck and don't be afraid to put a good coat of paste on and then fire it good with the torch b4 placing your solder. Are you using easy solder or medium or hard? The hard takes more heat and firescale easier. You can use shears to cut to save a lot of filing. As long as you are making mistakes you are learning. The folks that make decisions and try things progress the fastest!
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on Jul 2, 2016 0:38:00 GMT -5
That's really good. The only thing I'd disagree with is that you say its not worth finishing. It is!
Just now and again, I'll set something that comes out not quite right for one reason or another. A blob or run of solder or a slightly too strong push on the rod I use for bezel setting. Most things will polish out with tripoli before moving on to rouge to fine finish. Yes a tool would help - for polishing use a felt mop in a dremel (or cheaper dremel-type tool).
But what you have there is perfectly good and just needs finishing.
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Post by orrum on Jul 2, 2016 3:11:57 GMT -5
X2 Metalsmith!
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icatz
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2015
Posts: 453
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Post by icatz on Jul 3, 2016 6:55:41 GMT -5
Looks good to me. Much better than my first attempts. You got some good ideas from the ppl here. Just wondering, the cut butter tub, is that for all cabs or just soft ones like this Lab?
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Post by radio on Jul 3, 2016 8:15:11 GMT -5
Looks good to me. Much better than my first attempts. You got some good ideas from the ppl here. Just wondering, the cut butter tub, is that for all cabs or just soft ones like this Lab? it works for any stone. It does cushion somewhat, but the primary use is to raise the stone in the bezel cup so only a thin rim of bezel is rolled over the edges of the stone.
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icatz
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2015
Posts: 453
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Post by icatz on Jul 4, 2016 5:41:12 GMT -5
Looks good to me. Much better than my first attempts. You got some good ideas from the ppl here. Just wondering, the cut butter tub, is that for all cabs or just soft ones like this Lab? it works for any stone. It does cushion somewhat, but the primary use is to raise the stone in the bezel cup so only a thin rim of bezel is rolled over the edges of the stone. I see. I tend to use pretty low-height bezel for the same purpose. But I like the idea.
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Post by Pat on Jul 4, 2016 10:51:22 GMT -5
We use a more flexible plastic for raising stones in the bezel --- the plastic lids to ice cream containers. It has some give so it raises and cushions.
I figured sawdust could swell if damp. Anybody have experience with that?
For small pieces, we use a micro butane torch, and use the medium soldier chips most of the time.
There are several types of flux and of pickle. For pickle, we use swimming pool sodium bisulfate. Much cheaper than official pickle. There must be helpful discussions of this in the Metalsmith Section.
You are on your way! Agree that it IS worth finishing.
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Post by radio on Jul 4, 2016 11:45:12 GMT -5
I figured sawdust could swell if damp. Anybody have experience with that? I place the sawdust in the bezel cup, then lightly wet it so it packs nicely. The stones I set this way in some of my personal jewelry 20 years ago are still snug in the bezel
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on Jul 4, 2016 14:51:23 GMT -5
I see. I tend to use pretty low-height bezel for the same purpose. But I like the idea. I'll use a ring about 2/3rds the diameter of the bezel made with round wire and just slightly flattened on an anvil then soldered in place. Outside of the stone, it's just silver.
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icatz
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2015
Posts: 453
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Post by icatz on Jul 5, 2016 5:48:38 GMT -5
I see. I tend to use pretty low-height bezel for the same purpose. But I like the idea. I'll use a ring about 2/3rds the diameter of the bezel made with round wire and just slightly flattened on an anvil then soldered in place. Outside of the stone, it's just silver. I've done this as well with some larger stones. It's a little fiddly but works nicely.
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icatz
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2015
Posts: 453
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Post by icatz on Jul 5, 2016 5:51:01 GMT -5
We use a more flexible plastic for raising stones in the bezel --- the plastic lids to ice cream containers. It has some give so it raises and cushions. I figured sawdust could swell if damp. Anybody have experience with that? For small pieces, we use a micro butane torch, and use the medium soldier chips most of the time. There are several types of flux and of pickle. For pickle, we use swimming pool sodium bisulfate. Much cheaper than official pickle. There must be helpful discussions of this in the Metalsmith Section. You are on your way! Agree that it IS worth finishing. You mention using sodium bisulfate instead of trad pickle. I wonder, do you heat it in a crock pot like pickle? Are there harmful fumes? Looking for alternatives to pickle. Neutralizing it with baking soda is a fun science experiment but a huge pain.
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