jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2016 16:23:25 GMT -5
My system leans more toward what Chuck has stated. I don't add grit at any time during each stage run and only add water as the slurry thickens. If I am running a batch of preforms, I will run 120/220 for 36-48 hours, clean out and run 120/220 again for another 36-48. That's only for something that hasn't come directly from the rotary tumbler. I did start out doing cleanouts and grit addition at 24 hours in the Lot O, just like you would in a rotary, but read on here that most do not do a 'cleanout' during a Lot O stage. I stopped after a couple batches and don't see a discernable difference.
Given the instructions from the Rock Shed and your examples above, no reason to change what you are doing if you like your system.
Funny, nobody seems to be able to get the Sic 30 to work in the rubber barrels. You can in your PVC barrel, but not the rubber. Are you using a thickener for your slurry? I can't remember if jamesp has run his Georgia clay with Sic 30 in rubber barrels? Which won't really matter for us that don't have his clay, but I'm just curious.
jamesp I'm already sold on the merits of the colloidal slurry, just didn't know if you had tried in rubber. I know you get tired of the Great Clay Debate, I'm not looking for that. I never ran it in a rubber barrel. And not aware of anyone running it in a rubber barrel. But, I have run SiC 30 for over a week in PVC barrel and it did not break down till thickener was added(going the other way). I thickened the slurry in early experiments with non-colloidal lime, both hydrated and another form, and had problems with SiC 30 breaking down.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2016 16:26:41 GMT -5
11 !! And all the woods. Fine stuff.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2016 16:27:29 GMT -5
100 pounds of 11's please.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 16:33:33 GMT -5
100 pounds of 11's please. And #21. 100# each. Please.
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Post by txrockhunter on Nov 17, 2016 17:05:23 GMT -5
My system leans more toward what Chuck has stated. I don't add grit at any time during each stage run and only add water as the slurry thickens. If I am running a batch of preforms, I will run 120/220 for 36-48 hours, clean out and run 120/220 again for another 36-48. That's only for something that hasn't come directly from the rotary tumbler. I did start out doing cleanouts and grit addition at 24 hours in the Lot O, just like you would in a rotary, but read on here that most do not do a 'cleanout' during a Lot O stage. I stopped after a couple batches and don't see a discernable difference.
Given the instructions from the Rock Shed and your examples above, no reason to change what you are doing if you like your system.
Funny, nobody seems to be able to get the Sic 30 to work in the rubber barrels. You can in your PVC barrel, but not the rubber. Are you using a thickener for your slurry? I can't remember if jamesp has run his Georgia clay with Sic 30 in rubber barrels? Which won't really matter for us that don't have his clay, but I'm just curious.
jamesp I'm already sold on the merits of the colloidal slurry, just didn't know if you had tried in rubber. I know you get tired of the Great Clay Debate, I'm not looking for that. I think I am going to try your guys method to see how it goes. If I can get similar results with less effort, I am all for it!!!! I don't add any thickener to the slurry. When it is real thin, I keep a lot less water in it. Just enough to keep the rocks wet so the grit will stick to it and I add water as it thickens up. I don't have to worry too much about the noise. I do keep the barrels 80-90% full to help eliminate crashing. Thanks for the feedback!!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 17, 2016 17:26:43 GMT -5
I do what Chuck does.
I add no thickeners to my rotary barrels. I use a tablespoon of borax in my Lot-O in every stage except 120/220.
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victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,983
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Post by victor1941 on Nov 17, 2016 17:55:50 GMT -5
Really nice material and a great finish.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
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Post by richardh on Nov 17, 2016 20:56:39 GMT -5
Wow I like them all but number 11 is one of the coolest rocks I have seen. 16 and 17 also really stand out to me.
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
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Post by Fossilman on Nov 17, 2016 22:17:04 GMT -5
Great looking tumbles!!!
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Post by paulshiroma on Nov 17, 2016 23:19:06 GMT -5
Excellent effort. Your "overkill" yields killer results. I like. Really nice photos as well.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2016 7:28:33 GMT -5
I could get 30 grit to run with much less water too. To avoid the water washing the grit off and getting it to stick to the rocks.
Observed 2 things
1 The clay allowed running barrel about 60% full for what sounds like more grinding action with out the banging. 2 And since running larger rocks(2-3 inches) the 30 grit breaks down way faster. Emphasis on way faster.
Smaller the rocks the slower the coarse grind. Try coarse grinding 3/4 inch chips and smaller. Takes forever. Small rocks exert little pressure on the top of the pile where all the grinding takes place. Slow slow slow to develop slurry-no meat being removed.
Increase average rock size maintaining a mix of sizes and increase coarse grind times and slurry production. And grit usage rate. But, larger rocks introduce more chances of bruising unless you protect them with thicker slurry or smalls.
Media seems folly to me during coarse grind, media grinds and uses (wastes) grit too. Why not replace media with protective slurry and let the grit attack the target rocks 100%. No matter what size coarse grit you use.
My success with using 30 grit may be related to tumbling larger rocks...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 11:20:21 GMT -5
I could get 30 grit to run with much less water too. To avoid the water washing the grit off and getting it to stick to the rocks. Observed 2 things 1 The clay allowed running barrel about 60% full for what sounds like more grinding action with out the banging. 2 And since running larger rocks(2-3 inches) the 30 grit breaks down way faster. Emphasis on way faster. Smaller the rocks the slower the coarse grind. Try coarse grinding 3/4 inch chips and smaller. Takes forever. Small rocks exert little pressure on the top of the pile where all the grinding takes place. Slow slow slow to develop slurry-no meat being removed. Increase average rock size maintaining a mix of sizes and increase coarse grind times and slurry production. And grit usage rate. But, larger rocks introduce more chances of bruising unless you protect them with thicker slurry or smalls. Media seems folly to me during coarse grind, media grinds and uses (wastes) grit too. Why not replace media with protective slurry and let the grit attack the target rocks 100%. No matter what size coarse grit you use. My success with using 30 grit may be related to tumbling larger rocks... This post all by itself should be a sticky. VALUABLE and common sense know she here. 1dave
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2016 12:06:06 GMT -5
That's the way it seems to work @shotgunner. Just got back from the Rio less than 2 weeks ago and had these rolling. Many are field broken. Added grit very for 8-9 days. No clean out till today. Looks like 6-8 weeks doing weekly clean outs and grit changes. 6 pounds, no smalls, just what you see in the photo. A few added on the fly to catch volume up.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Nov 18, 2016 23:31:40 GMT -5
I could get 30 grit to run with much less water too. To avoid the water washing the grit off and getting it to stick to the rocks. Observed 2 things 1 The clay allowed running barrel about 60% full for what sounds like more grinding action with out the banging. 2 And since running larger rocks(2-3 inches) the 30 grit breaks down way faster. Emphasis on way faster. Smaller the rocks the slower the coarse grind. Try coarse grinding 3/4 inch chips and smaller. Takes forever. Small rocks exert little pressure on the top of the pile where all the grinding takes place. Slow slow slow to develop slurry-no meat being removed. Increase average rock size maintaining a mix of sizes and increase coarse grind times and slurry production. And grit usage rate. But, larger rocks introduce more chances of bruising unless you protect them with thicker slurry or smalls. Media seems folly to me during coarse grind, media grinds and uses (wastes) grit too. Why not replace media with protective slurry and let the grit attack the target rocks 100%. No matter what size coarse grit you use. My success with using 30 grit may be related to tumbling larger rocks... I'm having a heck of a time with the 30 grit in my 3lb tumbler. It is taking forever to break down no matter what I do. I have tried using the rubber barrel that came with the tumbler and have also made a pvc barrel. Both seem to give similarly poor results. I also glued a small strip of PVC to the wall of the pvc barrel to try to help get the grit stirred up and that seems to have had no effect either. Adding clay cat litter isn't changing the situation much either. I started adding 1tbsp of clay then two and now three. With three tbsp of clay the slurry is quite thick. I can still hear the rocks sliding around but still there is very little grit breakdown after 3 days. The rocks in the barrel are rio cherts and some rio agate and Jasper. There is one large rock, maybe 2.5" and the rest quarter sized stuff. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it definitely is frustrating. I would go back to 46-70 grit but used up my rock money for a while and still have about 40lbs of 30 grit to use up. The other frustrating thing about the 30 grit is that it really pits the surface of the rocks badly. I didn't really see this happening so much with the 46-70 grit. I can still see saw marks on the rocks after tumbling for two weeks but lots of pits. I don't think it is because all of my rocks are junk but who knows. I know many of them were pretty tough to saw through. Any suggestions are appreciated.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 19, 2016 4:39:01 GMT -5
richardh, let me move this to a separate thread. A lot of people are having problems with SiC 30 breaking down in all size rotary tumblers. You must be the 5th or 6th person. I experimented with lime, hydrated lime, pure white kaolin and plain old Georgia red clay. The red clay performed best hands down. I have no idea why. My whole property sits on red clay so I grabbed some and tried it. Just a long shot, as it was convenient and available. The sandier red clay did not perform near as well as pasty low sand content clay. A quick research on slurry conductivity and ph in the past few minutes may have shed light on the problem. Ions, ph level, silica content, colloids, gelling are over my head, no idea who they are related to slurry. But they are and I must do some study. If you don't mind I would like to copy and paste your post on this new thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 13:47:49 GMT -5
richardhHow large are the stones? What rpm is the barrel rotating?
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Post by txrockhunter on Nov 19, 2016 23:35:45 GMT -5
I could get 30 grit to run with much less water too. To avoid the water washing the grit off and getting it to stick to the rocks. Observed 2 things 1 The clay allowed running barrel about 60% full for what sounds like more grinding action with out the banging. 2 And since running larger rocks(2-3 inches) the 30 grit breaks down way faster. Emphasis on way faster. Smaller the rocks the slower the coarse grind. Try coarse grinding 3/4 inch chips and smaller. Takes forever. Small rocks exert little pressure on the top of the pile where all the grinding takes place. Slow slow slow to develop slurry-no meat being removed. Increase average rock size maintaining a mix of sizes and increase coarse grind times and slurry production. And grit usage rate. But, larger rocks introduce more chances of bruising unless you protect them with thicker slurry or smalls. Media seems folly to me during coarse grind, media grinds and uses (wastes) grit too. Why not replace media with protective slurry and let the grit attack the target rocks 100%. No matter what size coarse grit you use. My success with using 30 grit may be related to tumbling larger rocks... I guess I didn't really take the slurry thickening to heart. I thought of it as a sound solution more than a performance booster! I will start experimenting. Glad i saved this.....
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 20, 2016 6:46:03 GMT -5
Performance booster ?! That's it-Blue pill slurry !! Add 2 and get a stiff slurry
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Post by txrockhunter on Nov 20, 2016 20:32:39 GMT -5
Performance booster ?! That's it-Blue pill slurry !! Add 2 and get a stiff slurry I've got 5 gallons of dried slurry from that leak. I'm thinking that it will provide the right consistency, but not sure where it might fall in all that "suspension" research you posted. Man that hurt my head......I will have to trial and error. Thanks again for all the info!!!
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Nov 21, 2016 11:21:53 GMT -5
richardhHow large are the stones? What rpm is the barrel rotating? One is about 2.5" on the long end and the others are all quarter sized with a few that are pea sized. The tumbler is a stock Harbor Freight 3 lb tumbler. Not sure about the rpm but it is just right out of the box.
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