Wooferhound
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Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,426
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 15, 2017 8:35:14 GMT -5
I have ordered 2 Grit Kits since I started tumbling and they send a different amount of Course grit than Fine Grit. The first kit I received had: 16 ounces 60/90 and 120/220 , But 1/2 the Polish: 8 ounces 500 and 1200. Second kit was: 5 pounds 80 and 220 and 600 , But 1/5 the Polish: 1 pound Cerium Oxide, pink but not graded. Different tumbler instructions suggest different ratios than what is provided.
Do I really need to use so much less polish than in the stages before it ? The polish stage runs so watery that it is hard to think that the polish could be effective if it is so thin ?
This question is mainly about Rocks, but I have a tumble of glass finishing stage 3 today and will be using the new Cerium Oxide polish to try for the clear finish.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 15, 2017 9:06:57 GMT -5
Specify what barrel you have and someone can give you an exact recipe for each stage. Coarse grit like 60/90 weighs much more by volume then polish. Three tablespoons of 60/90 weighs much more then 3 tablespoons of polish so that is one reason. The other reason is that 60/90 is generally not a one week process like the polish stage so you need much more 60/90 to keep recharging each week.
I have never ordered a grit kit. I have always just ordered my grits individually so I have control over specs and amounts.
Chuck
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 15, 2017 9:07:58 GMT -5
I use 1 cup coarse-220-500 for 14 pound rotary. (bit light of a dose). Chuck's comment about adding coarse grit. for rotary I order 50 pounds coarse, 5 of 220, 5 of 500 and 5 of polish. Yes, 10 times more coarse than 220-500-polish. Must add coarse grit 8-10 times... 1/2 cup aluminum oxide polish for 14 rotary. Have done 1/4 cup polish for 14 and could tell no difference.
2 tablespoons of any grit in a 14 pound vibe. 1 tablespoon polish does fine in a 14 vibe.
I think cerium oxide dances to a different drummer. Never used it. May be expensive.
Most common polish used on this forum is Rock shed's aluminum oxide 14,000 polish. cheap and effective.
Polish cycle can have a thin slurry. Best to add some (I prefer polished)smalls to fill barrel to minimum 3/4. I prefer 80% fill for polish accomplished with added polished smalls. And add sugar to thicken slurry a bit to say chocolate milk. Some pad polish with plastic media or ceramic media. I would use polished ceramic media for the rotary.
Glass is trickier the agate and other Mohs 7 rock. It can frost if you don't protect it.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 15, 2017 9:12:02 GMT -5
The polish stage runs so watery that it is hard to think that the polish could be effective if it is so thin ? This is a loaded question. What size barrel are using and how much water are you putting in? are you using any thickeners like borax? Chuck
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Feb 15, 2017 9:50:16 GMT -5
Hell Chuck, all tumbling questions are loaded lol. Many different ways to skin a cat. If you arrive at polish, you are a success, hat's off-ata boy-congrats-etc.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 15, 2017 9:58:58 GMT -5
Hell Chuck, all tumbling questions are loaded lol. Many different ways to skin a cat. If you arrive at polish, you are a success, hat's off-ata boy-congrats-etc. agreed! I think it is much more difficult to teach best practices in a rotary. Vibe tumbler I can give very precise instruction and feel confident in the expected result. Amount of water and slurry quality is difficult to establish in a closed up rotary barrel. Vibe tumbler you just take off the lid and inspect. Moving too fast and harsh add a little thickener. Moving too slow give it a couple squirts of water. Instant gratification. Chuck
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Feb 15, 2017 10:09:28 GMT -5
I despise giving rotary help for exactly the reasons you mention. Too many variables in a rotary, anyone of them can cause failure.
speed barrel size slurry fill water padding rock size/mix
Individual opinions of all of the above excepting speed and barrel size vary greatly.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
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Post by ChicagoDave on Feb 15, 2017 11:18:35 GMT -5
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Post by captbob on Feb 15, 2017 11:24:06 GMT -5
jamesp - you are using a half cup of polish in a 14 lb barrel? Wow, that sounds like a lot of polish. I'm usually adding a few tablespoons of polish. Maybe I will try a half cup sometime, guess it couldn't hurt...?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 15, 2017 11:39:46 GMT -5
jamesp - you are using a half cup of polish in a 14 lb barrel? Wow, that sounds like a lot of polish. I'm usually adding a few tablespoons of polish. Maybe I will try a half cup sometime, guess it couldn't hurt...? Is it a lot ? 1/4 cup or 1/2 cup has never made an iota of difference. Thought it safe to be on heavy side. Good to hear 1/2 is on the heavy side. I never knew. I have heard people say less polish(to a point) is actually faster.
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
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Post by ubermenehune on Feb 15, 2017 11:45:21 GMT -5
Do I really need to use so much less polish than in the stages before it ? The polish stage runs so watery that it is hard to think that the polish could be effective if it is so thin ? The short answer is yes. You need only use a fraction of the amount of polish compared to coarser grits, to achieve the desired outcome. Different tumblers and grit kits will prescribe various quantities for each stage. These measurements are reasonable guidelines for beginners, but are are largely arbitrary. In addition to your own experimentation, the forum members are a great resource for learning grit optimization.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,426
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 16, 2017 8:26:31 GMT -5
I think cerium oxide dances to a different drummer. Never used it. May be expensive. Most common polish used on this forum is Rock shed's aluminum oxide 14,000 polish. cheap and effective. I wasn't paying close enough attention to this Kingsley Grit Kit when I ordered it and would probably have passed on the Cerium Oxide if I had noticed. Yes it can be more expensive but I think the stuff in the kit is a lower grade. At least I will get a chance to experiment with it. Their other 16 Pound Kits (5 lbs each course + 1 lb polish) contained 1 pound of Alumina Polish and a little cheaper. I have been ordering the Kits because I am just getting started since Christmas and now have 15 pounds of barrels to roll, so I'm trying to grow faster than I had planned, needing a buncha grit right away. I found 10 pounds of AO80 on eBay for $21 shipped so, yes I have plenty of grinding grits, now I'm concerned about the polish. Looked at the Rock Shed Polishes, They have them listed by the ingredients but don't mention a particle size.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
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Post by huskeric on Feb 16, 2017 12:22:22 GMT -5
Most common polish used on this forum is Rock shed's aluminum oxide 14,000 polish. cheap and effective. jamesp, I have only ever gone up to 1,500 polish. I know this has been discussed, so I'm sorry for re-asking, but do you jump from 500 to 14,000, or are there other intermediate steps? I know in practice, you tend to let the grit break down over a longer period, so in essence it becomes those finer grits, but I would be interested in trying some 14,000, and I would like to do it right. Thanks! -Eric
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,426
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 17, 2017 7:18:45 GMT -5
The polish stage runs so watery that it is hard to think that the polish could be effective if it is so thin ? This is a loaded question. What size barrel are using and how much water are you putting in? are you using any thickeners like borax? Chuck I roll course in 6 pound and polish in 3 pound barrels. Have been only adding the polish without any thickeners. Water just covers the rocks in polish. When cooking it is common to use Corn Starch to thicken-up gravies and stews, wondering if it would be effective in polish? Fun experiment: Make a watery paste with corn starch. Now swirl your finger in it. The faster you move your finger, the more resistance to motion will be made by the paste mixture. Very interesting.
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Post by HankRocks on Feb 17, 2017 8:12:25 GMT -5
I never pour out my polish water, I save it and let it settle out and skim excess water off, then re-use it over and over. Used the same polish in my rotary for 2 or 3 years only adding a bit every so often. Used to strain it through cheesecloth but decided that the small particles were polished and were probably helping, or least not hindering the polishing.
H
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
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Post by ubermenehune on Feb 17, 2017 8:33:58 GMT -5
Until a few months ago, I would go from 500 SiC (48 hours or so) straight to 14k AO. Once I added a 1000 AO step in between, the difference was quite noticeable. Enough to make me want to re-tumble everything that I had completed prior to that change.
I am intrigued by the 80 AO method and will plan on trying that once i need to reorder grit.
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Post by captbob on Feb 17, 2017 9:21:20 GMT -5
Most common polish used on this forum is Rock shed's aluminum oxide 14,000 polish. cheap and effective. jamesp , I have only ever gone up to 1,500 polish. I know this has been discussed, so I'm sorry for re-asking, but do you jump from 500 to 14,000, or are there other intermediate steps? I know in practice, you tend to let the grit break down over a longer period, so in essence it becomes those finer grits, but I would be interested in trying some 14,000, and I would like to do it right. You sure you are using 1500 polish? Where the heck did you find it? As to your grit question, there is 500, (Tripoli pre-polish is considered 700-800) and then 1000 grit. I go from 500 to 1000 (SiC) to polish. Run the 500 SiC grit long enough and you can probably do without the 1000. Most of the white "pre-polish" bags that come in kits are probably AO 500. May be AO 1000, but I would bet on it being the 500.
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Post by captbob on Feb 17, 2017 9:24:42 GMT -5
I am intrigued by the 80 AO method and will plan on trying that once i need to reorder grit. I just got my AO 60 & 80 in this week and I'm looking forward to giving it a go as batches progress. May be quite the game changer. That eBay seller has a small 2 lb bag offered w/ free shipping. like 10 bucks - I don't remember. Why wait?
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
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Post by ubermenehune on Feb 17, 2017 9:48:15 GMT -5
I am intrigued by the 80 AO method and will plan on trying that once i need to reorder grit. I just got my AO 60 & 80 in this week and I'm looking forward to giving it a go as batches progress. May be quite the game changer. That eBay seller has a small 2 lb bag offered w/ free shipping. like 10 bucks - I don't remember. Why wait? I was thinking that i'd use up my 120/220 & 500 first, but I suppose you're right. Maybe I just wanted to avoid getting one of those eye-roll looks from my wife, since I just got a 40lb bag of 60 SiC from Abrasive Armory earlier this week.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 17, 2017 12:06:13 GMT -5
I never pour out my polish water, I save it and let it settle out and skim excess water off, then re-use it over and over. Used the same polish in my rotary for 2 or 3 years only adding a bit every so often. Used to strain it through cheesecloth but decided that the small particles were polished and were probably helping, or least not hindering the polishing. OK . . . I stole your idea this morning when I moved my glass to stage 4 polish. I cleaned out from the 500 grit and poured the polish from my Christmas tumble into the barrel along with a tablespoon of Cerium Oxide polish and topped it up to 2/3 full with plastic beads. This glass will spin for 9 days straight unless it gasses.
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