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Post by pauls on Nov 25, 2017 0:16:44 GMT -5
Yep, that blue slurry happens with the AO500 I have.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 25, 2017 6:19:31 GMT -5
Yep, that blue slurry happens with the AO500 I have. Is your vibe hopper blue ?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 25, 2017 7:04:06 GMT -5
Synopsis and conclusion
First and foremost, using the correct ceramic media for the right application is mandatory.
Most formulations of ceramic media are made up of a range of sizes of aluminum oxide(or other ceramic formed abrasives) particles in a heated process to make ceramic. After purchasing this PZ media I noticed it is labeled "fairly aggressive" for material removal. Worst thing I could have purchased for polish. Ceramic media's are mostly utilized for the metallurgical industry. But there are very hard metals that need to be tumble polished and that is probably the ceramic media needed for our rocks.
Ceramic media composed of polish size particles is what is needed. I use fused AO 22 AO 80 and AO 220 to reach a polish in my vibe. Any 3 of those will polish. But they are loose particles that break down to polish. The hard rocks and media in the vibe crushes them, wears them.
Ceramic media is continually wearing and exposing fresh abrasive. If the media is made up of AO 80-220-500-1000 sized particles you will never reach polish. Some ceramic media does not even use fused aluminum oxide for polishing because it is sharper than other forms of aluminum oxide. For example aluminum oxide made in the form of tiny spheres. Which is much more costly.
For rock polishing you need the hardest most fine grained ceramic media. #1 criteria. If ceramic media is wearing your vibe barrel you should question it's composition. Obviously The Rock Shed is selling the correct ceramic media for rock tumbling because members get great polishes using it.
From there the density can be looked at. Dense media may micro damage hard rocks, may not. It may speed the process with out damage. An unknown. In the metal tumbling industry dense media is known to bend and warp delicate metal parts.
Keep in mind that some industrial tumblers are set at severe vibration rates to simulate high speed shot peening for increasing surface hardness of metals. High speeds and high vibration forces that forge and work harden the surface of metals. Requiring high impact resistant ceramic media. Such vibes are punishing beasts. Vibes are capable of high impact forces. May look gentle, but don't be fooled.
One thing is for sure, most quartz and agates are very fine grained and tough. And of about the same hardness of the rocks you are tumbling. Plenty hard enough to break down loose abrasive.(aluminum oxide for sure, probably not diamond) Less aggressive than ceramics since the goal of ceramic tumbling media is longevity when rubbing together with parts to be tumble finished in powerful deep bellied vibratory tumblers. So(non-porous) agate/quartz media is safe for rock tumbling. A conservative and reliable choice. It is also quite dense compared to most ceramics.
Next experiment will be with the hardest most fine grained ceramic media. Probably a pure aluminum oxide composition. Probably avoid any media with zirconia compounds.
Cleaned out the Vibrasonic and started it back up with agate/quartz media. Tumbling a few Rio's and a fine one pound Mary Ellen. All straight out of the rotary. In AO 220 w/Borax. Should be done tomorrow.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 25, 2017 7:39:23 GMT -5
I couldn't even guess how many types of media I've tried in my polish stage with varying degrees of success, but nothing ever worked better than a bunch of tiny already polished agate and jasper in around the 1/4 inch range. They really create good surface to surface contact and carry the polish slurry well, they cushion the load, and they never break down on the tumble as they are hard as what you are polishing.....Mel
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 25, 2017 8:36:35 GMT -5
I couldn't even guess how many types of media I've tried in my polish stage with varying degrees of success, but nothing ever worked better than a bunch of tiny already polished agate and jasper in around the 1/4 inch range. They really create good surface to surface contact and carry the polish slurry well, they cushion the load, and they never break down on the tumble as they are hard as what you are polishing.....Mel Whether in the rotary or the vibe I have experienced the same thing Mel. I do OK with 1/2" to some 3/4". Guessing 1/4" would yet improve polish more so. Conservative and safe media. One thing for sure, if you add Mohs 9 ceramic media to the mix it better be amiable to taking a polish. If it does not polish, you rocks ain't gonna polish ! An old timer master lapidarian told me that the finest polishes he ever achieved on soft rocks was abrading them with the rock dust from the rock it self. He had a high speed lap set up that was charged initially with aluminum oxide and generated a thick layer of(malachite and calcites in his case) of that rock's dust. By the end of the lap process it was green with malachite dust. Or yellow with calcite dust. He owned a rock shop for years in Tampa. Travelled west to sell. His polished malachites and calcites were sought after. Not sure if that same process works for tumbling.
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Post by pauls on Nov 25, 2017 14:46:41 GMT -5
Yep, that blue slurry happens with the AO500 I have. Is your vibe hopper blue ? Sure is, a blue vibrasonic like you had a picture of on one of your threads a week or so back. Only happens with the AO.
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Post by pauls on Nov 25, 2017 14:54:30 GMT -5
I couldn't even guess how many types of media I've tried in my polish stage with varying degrees of success, but nothing ever worked better than a bunch of tiny already polished agate and jasper in around the 1/4 inch range. They really create good surface to surface contact and carry the polish slurry well, they cushion the load, and they never break down on the tumble as they are hard as what you are polishing.....Mel Smaller Agates are my preferred media, I did try Rhodolite garnet a few weeks back as media but that was a dismal failure, too many Garnet crystals are fractured and break up.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 25, 2017 14:55:53 GMT -5
Is your vibe hopper blue ? Sure is, a blue vibrasonic like you had a picture of on one of your threads a week or so back. Only happens with the AO. When I bought the Vibrasonic it had been sitting for years and it appeared the surface of the liner had dry rotted a bit. Seemed like the first few runs had blue slurry. After that the liner was smooth and glossy. White AO may show color well. SiC is dirty. Dark rocks may make a dark slurry that hides the blue color. My AO 500 slurry stays fairly clear. Hard BB sized almandine garnets effected my polish negatively in the vibe. Even with a decent polish on them. Mysterious.
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fishnpinball
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Post by fishnpinball on Nov 25, 2017 18:53:50 GMT -5
Thank you for attempting all these different exotic tumbles... seems like most of them seem to prove stick with what is known to work.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 25, 2017 20:13:41 GMT -5
Thank you for attempting all these different exotic tumbles... seems like most of them seem to prove stick with what is known to work. Every failure is a move in a forward direction. I like to know why what does what. It's a victory to know. Lots of tumbling data logged over the years and the process is darn well dialed in.
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fishnpinball
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Post by fishnpinball on Nov 25, 2017 20:29:57 GMT -5
Thank you for attempting all these different exotic tumbles... seems like most of them seem to prove stick with what is known to work. Every failure is a move in a forward direction. I like to know why what does what. It's a victory to know. Lots of tumbling data logged over the years and the process is darn well dialed in. Knowledge is power... Actually understanding what is happening in the process does help a lot.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 26, 2017 10:50:32 GMT -5
Every failure is a move in a forward direction. I like to know why what does what. It's a victory to know. Lots of tumbling data logged over the years and the process is darn well dialed in. Knowledge is power... Actually understanding what is happening in the process does help a lot. And in this case perhaps some $10 per pound media may kick but for rock tumbling. Just because we are presented with $4 per pound media from a supply store does not mean that other medias may serve better. Ceramics change every year. Similar to the computer field. But how to know unless you delve into it head first. A failure to the left direction may result in great success/learning if effort is made in the extreme right direction. Had years in as a process engineer on many high tech processes, trust me tumbling is as mysterious a process as can be found.
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