RiverOtter
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2004
Posts: 339
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Post by RiverOtter on Aug 25, 2004 10:04:18 GMT -5
Jackson,
Borax is used for pretty much the same purpose. I use it to wash my rocks following each grit stage to help remove any leftover grit from the rocks. Saves me time because by doing it this way it doesn't require me cleaning the rocks with a toothbrush. It also helps get my barrels squeaky clean. Some people use Borax in their polish stage too. This helps the wetting action. I've heard people use it in their tile saws and grinders for the same purpose. For a 3# barrel use about 2 Tablespoons. There is no correct amount of Borax to use (unlike the grit). Since I run different size tumblers my rule of thumb is use the same amount of Borax that you would use of grit for the size barrel. So if I'm running a 3# barrel and I use 2 tablespoons of grit, then I use 2 tablespoons of borax for the wash.
Hope this helps! Otter
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Mazanec
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 355
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Post by Mazanec on Aug 25, 2004 13:56:23 GMT -5
Started polish. Lid leaked, so I had to refasten it. Stones look a little better, though.
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JKowalski33
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 451
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Post by JKowalski33 on Aug 25, 2004 14:01:43 GMT -5
Otter, aren't you supposed to use 3 tablespoons for a 3# barrel? That is what andy says in his instructions for tumbling. But if you can get by with two then tell me, so I don't waste anymore grit. -Jackson
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Post by creativeminded on Aug 26, 2004 10:09:13 GMT -5
Since I only have 4 barrels and 6 stages of grinding and polishing I use the borax to clean the rocks and the barrel between those other stages. Plus it doesn't foam up. I use the stage two barrel with the third stage of grit and the stage three barrel with the tripoli and 100 grit. My first barrel is strictly for the coarse grit and my fourth barrel is strictly for the polish. I will be posting the results of my latest batch soon. Tami
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Post by creativeminded on Aug 26, 2004 10:11:06 GMT -5
I forgot to answer the rest of your post about how much to use in a 3#. I use two level Tablespoons. In fact I use 2 Tablespoons of all my grit and polish in my 3# Lortone. Tami
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Post by creativeminded on Aug 26, 2004 10:13:07 GMT -5
I know the instructions tell you to use 3 Tablespoons, however, even after 2 weeks I kept finding grit in the bottom of the barrel and when I dropped to 2 Tablespoons I still got great results and no waste. Tami
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RiverOtter
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2004
Posts: 339
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Post by RiverOtter on Aug 27, 2004 2:08:31 GMT -5
Yeah what Tami said. I also found that using 3 Tablespoons left alot of grit in the bottom of my barrels after a week. So I also dropped to 2. To an extent it will depend a bit on what your tumbling. For instance I used 2 Tablespoons on anything with a Mohs of 7 or less. But I have found that with my corundum, it eats through the grit a little faster. If you will be checking and recharging your barrels every 7 days I would recommend 2. Some people use more and some less. You can play with the grit amount you use to find your own recipe (whatever works best for you). Otter
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JKowalski33
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 451
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Post by JKowalski33 on Aug 27, 2004 12:44:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice, it should save me from wasting quite a bit of grit! ;D ;D....hey.. that rhymes! -jackson
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Post by connrock on Aug 28, 2004 11:23:29 GMT -5
When I wash my rocks in the tumblers between loads I use plastic pellets to help the soap scrub all of the surfaces of the rocks.I have found if I just wash the rocks themselves they don't come as clean as with the pellets. This of course is only after the roughing is finished.There's not much need to get the rocks all that clean during the roughing and if the rocks are rounded and still have pits and or cracks they should be roughed until those areas are removed entirely. There are exceptions to this of course.LOL Imagine trying to get rid of all the fractures in rose quartz??LOL Or some of the petrified wood we tumble??LOL I once did a 12 lb load of amazonite that was VERY poor material to start with.After several months of roughing and a ton of 60/90 I think I ended up with about 10 lbs of slury and 2 lbs of pebble size rocks!!LOL I don't want to get Llana going again (tee hee hee) but I started out with junk and thats what I got for all my efforts,time and money!! I've found 2 ways to avoid lousy looking rocks.One is to try to buy the best rough you can afford,collect or trade. The other is rough,rough,rough!! I know you're sick and tired of hearing this but,,,,,,,,,,, OOPS forgot,,, If you use the soap of your choise right from the start and just before you're drain the slurry,open the barrel and fill it almost to the top with water.If you think you need more soap to get the rocks washing better add a LITTLE!!If you add too much the lid may pop off on you.Let the tumbler run for about 15-30 minuets and then drain and rinse the rocks off.The rocks and barrels wash off MUCH easier this way. Tom
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Post by connrock on Aug 28, 2004 12:02:20 GMT -5
I have a comment on the amount of grit to use. A rule of thumb for grit amount is 1 lb of grit for every 10 lbs of rocks. As has been mentioned this can be adjusted and sometimes it's a must. The tumbler mfg's suggested amount is under ideal conditions and we probably never make it all the way to ideal but we have to start somewhere. I know that James agrees with me when I say we rough WAY too slow,,,,and in my opinion we use WAY too much water. The speed,volume of rocks,grit/polish and cushion material (plastic pellets for one) all determine the "ideal condition".I believe that a lesser amount of water is better then too much.If you have to add water it's much easier then taking it out. Some of you are finding grit in the barrel after a week or so of roughing.This can be caused by a few things.Too much water,tumbler not turning fast enough,overloaded barrel and too much grit.(there may be more reasons but I can't think of any right now) In my book changing tumbler speed for roughing should REALLY be considered.You can do this a couple of ways. Increase the diameter of the drive pulley (on the motor) by about 1/4.This will speed up the tumbler and not overload the motor. Even if you can put some electricians tape around the drive pulley a few times it WILL help speed up the tumbler. Another option is to buy a 3000 RPM motor which will double your barrel speed.This can be expensive so I suggest the tape method first. When you go to the other grit cycles remove the tape and wash off the pulley with alchohol.(spelling?) If you do this,and cut down your water volume in 1/2 it will speed up the RPM's of the barrel and help to create a slurry faster. You can use the mfg's suggested amount of grit which in turn will rough faster for you and you won't find grit on the bottom of the barrel. One thing.If after 2 or 3 days you here the rocks sound different then the day you started (kinda like a plopping sound).Open the barrel and add a "little " water. Remember it's easy to add but hard to take out. I hope this will help some of you and I REALLY hope you'll try it. Hey,,,,,,,,,Whataya go to loose?? Tom
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RedwoodRocks
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 762
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Post by RedwoodRocks on Aug 29, 2004 22:12:13 GMT -5
I was or am using the Ivory soap. I think the advantage of the borax is that borax doesn't suds up like the Ivory soap. Not sure if this is true as I haven't tried the borax (I bought the borax, but am waiting to use it).
I also think Tom is right about the amount of water. Like others with my Lortone 33-B, I always seemed to have some grit left over after a week. I am running a couple of Thumbler B's, I am using a lot less water than the bottom of the top of the rocks, closer to maybe a cup or cup and a half of water, the grit is gone in 2-3 days. I would comment about using less water in the Lortone, but it is on the blink, I need a new motor. But, once I do get a new motor, I am going to try using less water to see the effect.
Since Tom and the guru-James mentioned using a faster motor on the Thumbler B to speed up the coarse stage, that may be my next experiment.
Cal t
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Mazanec
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 355
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Post by Mazanec on Aug 31, 2004 14:11:30 GMT -5
I have electrical trouble at home so I took them out of polish a day early. They shine, but this just highlights the mass of tiny pores on them. A D+ this time. Next time I'm using the simplest stones I can find.
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llanago
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,714
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Post by llanago on Aug 31, 2004 14:29:13 GMT -5
Maz, how long did they stay in 60/90? Sounds to me like you didn't let them go long enough. My green adventurine was in 60/90 for at least a month, maybe more. Some of it has cracks/fissures all the way through the stone and you can't get rid of that, but surface cracks and pits you just have to keep them in 60/90 long enough to remove those. This is not a problem stone, you just have to have PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE!
Don't give up on doing the more difficult rocks or you will miss some great stuff. You just have to develope the patience to let them run long enough in 60/90 to get rid of the cracks and pits.
llana
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Mazanec
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 355
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Post by Mazanec on Aug 31, 2004 18:22:52 GMT -5
Maybe, though I still don't like the cracks and holes. Perhaps they are too hard for my usual couple weeks, though, I will try to do something with more colorful rocks next.. that don't crack
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Post by cookie3rocks on Aug 31, 2004 19:07:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure why, but the darker the green, the less cracks I see. Made some pretty pendants from the dark green, but the lighter stuff will have to be backed up. Yes Llana, PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE!
cookie
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Post by Cher on Aug 31, 2004 19:17:36 GMT -5
Ummm can you buy that stuff? I mean patience? LOL
[glow=red,2,300]~ Cher ~[/glow]
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JKowalski33
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 451
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Post by JKowalski33 on Aug 31, 2004 21:40:17 GMT -5
I was talking to krazydiamond (i think it was him, sorry if im wrong) and he said that he uses 5 or 6 tablespoons of grit for a 3# barrel. That just seems like too much. Does anyone else use this much?
[shadow=blue,right,50][glow=blue,1,300]-- Jackson --[/glow][/shadow]
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Mazanec
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 355
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Post by Mazanec on Sept 2, 2004 10:49:41 GMT -5
I am having a bad time right now. Also, I do not want to waste the time for stones that are cracked and very light (almost like mucus). I will spend the time on something which has a chance of turning out good.
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Post by rockyraccoon on Sept 2, 2004 11:37:52 GMT -5
jackson i use 6 tbsp for a 6# barrel. hope this helps.
kim
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Mazanec
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 355
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Post by Mazanec on Oct 25, 2004 8:50:19 GMT -5
My cousin Barb recently saw my green aventurine stones. She thought they were fantastic!
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