bitterbrook
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Always remember STEP NUMBER ONE!
Member since September 2006
Posts: 99
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Post by bitterbrook on Oct 22, 2018 20:48:23 GMT -5
The Cabochons classroom at William Holland has a new Cab King at position 6 (my place) to replace a worn-out (so they said) DP Genie. I figured it was my responsibility as instructor to run this unit through its paces and become a CK expert. First thing I noticed was the height of the wheels, a bit higher than that of the DP Genie. Even though I'm short at 5ft-8in, I like to choke the wheels, so the extra height felt very comfortable. The wheel hood/water reservoir configuration of the Genie was replaced with a hood with three water control valves which slides into a fitting in the back of the reservoir (which really isn't a reservoir any more since the water falls off the wheels and drains out a hole in the front or back (configurable by the lapidary) into a bucket. the school decided to obtain clean water from a 5-gallon bucket with a submersible pump that gets the water to the valve heads in the wheel hoods. This configuration result in two 5-gallon buckets by the grinder with associated hoses and fittings, with an extra power source for the pump required. This particular pump has no on-off switch and runs continually while the setup is plugged in. I'd definitely drip from an overhead bucket if I had one of these at home, and leave the submersible pump in the aquarium. I'm told by CK lovers that this water-dripping system is vastly superior to DP's geysers since you'll never squirt gritty water on your cabs and scratch them like you can with the Genie. In 14 years of cabbing with a Genie, I'm pretty certain I've never had a cabochon scratched by dirty water spit up by a geyser. That said, I'd be a BIG fan of this system if there was just some way to visually tell which valve was open. I never pay attention with my Genie because the geyser is always right where I left it. The hood/splash shield combo makes it look as though all three valves are open all the time, since water seems to flow down the shield everywhere. And why a turning valve? Does it meter the amount of water going to the wheels? If so, what the heck for? I want that thing slap wide open all the time I'm running a wheel; a toggle switch type of valve would be better IMHO. I'm not going to comment on the wheels at all other to say they seem OK. Not as aggressive as a new set of DP's Galaxy/Nova wheels; they appear "polite" instead but so far are doing the job intended. I do more talking than polishing in class, and on Day One of class I'm at the grinding wheels demonstrating how to put a dome on a cabochon, so I can't say I've even polished with the machine yet. I will say that, in my experience, the Kingsley North wheels that cost half as much as DP wheels last about half as long. That's accurate. Another petty gripe is the pair of power switches. If you don't comprehend "|" and "O" you have a green push switch and a red push switch. I wonder how long these switches will last. One SPST toggle would be more intuitive to use and will probably have better longevity. On the plus side, the machine doesn't vibrate. The "reservoirs" have feet that sit in holes in the base to make them relatively immovable, and the hoods fasten pretty snugly to the reservoirs and do not rattle and vibrate like those on the Genie can (always do). The water supply system gets lots of water to your chosen wheel; I haven't tried opening more than one valve at a time, but since I never grind on more than one wheel at a time, I don't see a need to do that anyway. The reservoirs do not slide around, and since they never fill with water, you never get the feeling that they're even present. With the Genie my students are constantly nudging the hoods this way or that to cut down the vibration. No need with the Cab King. Big plus. As I have time, I'm going to memorize the user manual and play with the hoods and the wheels to see how all that fits together. I admit to not having done so before I sat down at the Cab King, but there it was when I arrived, and when you stand a Genie and a Cab King upside-down they look pretty much the same. Plunging into using a new piece of equipment isn't really all that bad... If no one's mean to me for these comments, I'll give more impressions as I use the beast a bit more. Sorry I haven't been here in such a long time. I'm getting old and lazy.
P.S. Just for fun I bought a piece of Mille Fleur glass and am cutting a big freeform with it this week. It's going to look very cool...
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Post by MsAli on Oct 22, 2018 21:28:17 GMT -5
I dont have my own Cab machine so cannot comment I do thank you for your review, and would love to have you post more as you become more familiar with it. I did look at your page and you have some beauties. And welcome back
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stonemon
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2017
Posts: 1,024
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Post by stonemon on Oct 22, 2018 23:52:20 GMT -5
I use a Cab King 8V1 as my primary cabber. Bought it new in 2014. I am happy with it. Just wish I could spend more time with it........ I have a Titan but have never gotten around to getting water to it. It is a used machine I picked up a couple of years ago and the spitter was not functional. I think I will hard plumb it like the Cab King. Just not sure when. Bill
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 23, 2018 4:53:30 GMT -5
Thank you for your review. Seems like there's DP people and Cab King people. Who knows if you will change any minds, but thank you for your opinions. I have a Genie and never really considered a Cab King. It seems like the big Cab King advantage would be the water system, but like you said, I have never (to my knowledge) had a stone scratch because of dirty water. The Genie seems way more portable, if one can even say that, and that is very important to me.
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Post by roy on Oct 23, 2018 10:59:09 GMT -5
good review thanks! i have a titan that has been converted to fresh water so im all good there
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 23, 2018 12:15:54 GMT -5
Logic says the DP spritzer system will contaminate wheels but, like you, I used my Genie for many years and saw no evidence of an issue. I liked the under water system for the lack of the free shower you get with overhead water systems. I did most of my grinding in December getting ready for Winter shows so a little warm water in the pans and no problem. I have sold many CabKing units (both sizes) and really have not heard any complaints. One unit arrived with cord not attached and another had a faulty on/off switch. Customer installed the cord before telling me and the manufacturer mailed a switch to customer same day. Apparently it is an easy pop in installation. The CK wheels are low priced but light handed hobby users should get good use out of them. With 1" arbor holes anybody's wheels can be used as replacements.
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bitterbrook
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Always remember STEP NUMBER ONE!
Member since September 2006
Posts: 99
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Post by bitterbrook on Oct 24, 2018 19:13:41 GMT -5
First impressions, Day Two...
The (new) wheels are OK. Not too aggressive but competent. No motor vibration, and the sucker spins for a long time after shutoff. Overhead spitters put out plenty of water.
The submersible water pump is plugged into a power strip so I can easily turn it off when not using the machine. I'm not familiar enough with the pump to know if it's OK to just leave it on. Haven't had time to read the directions completely. I did read the part about the side spitters but accidentally turned one on anyway and flooded my work area. What I didn't see in the manual were specifics about installing the hoods on the water trays.
School policy at William Holland is to disassemble and clean the classroom Genies weekly. Since this week is the first week using this new Cab-King I decided to disassemble this one to see how easily it could be cleaned by a student (not really familiar with the beast).
Oh. My. Goodness. Put one of these in the hands of a student at your peril, I told the administrator. The hoods are VERY difficult to remove without feeling you are using brute force. Hard to describe, but the back bottom of the hoods fit snugly between the back of the tray and an additional plastic buttress almost the width of the hood and about an inch high. Snap one off (probably easier than you'd think) and the hood will float over the wheels and probably vibrate to beat the band if it will stay in place at all.
If you are successful in removing the hood, you have a water supply tube coming out the back, attached to a "T" on the way to the pump. After you pull the tube out without damaging the "T," you notice the three double drippers under the hood, and the tube to the side spitter. Too many opportunities for damage in the hands of someone who isn't familiar with the Cab-King.
Now you have to remove the drain lines form the trays and get the trays out without busting the little feet that stick into holes in the base for stability. I already had one drain line come loose while I was working, flooding my work area (again).
At this point, I stopped disassembling the CK and decided to wait until Friday after the students leave before attempting to clean it. I was going to write up cleaning instructions but will leave that task to the CK dealer who sold the beast to the school.
If I sounded too critical in these posts, that was not my intent. I'd be happy with a CK if I didn't already have my Genie. Only time will tell how well it and its wheels stand up in a classroom environment.
Realize that I've been using (and abusing) a DP Genie for almost 15 years and I love that machine as much as I did when I first bought it. The Cab-King is very competent. The water supply system appears to work flawlessly, and after two days of use is very stable and quiet. I hope for the school's sake that it will last. But after watching students disassemble, clean, drop, bend, and otherwise abuse classroom Genies for the past twelve years, I told the school administrator that their money would be better spent on a proven grinder/polisher.
P.S. Stonemon, I'll take that Titan off your hands...
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 26, 2018 11:49:44 GMT -5
Since it is an overhead water system and out the drain, why not just flush the pan a little after use and wipe it out? Wipe down the unit exterior and call it done. Maybe a periodic tear down and deep cleaning.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 27, 2018 8:26:04 GMT -5
I’m not in the market for a cab machine, but if I was, this would be a great resource. It’s nice to hear from someone with lots of experience who has used two different machines. Please continue with your commentary. I think it’s great if you offer your criticisms, whichever way they land. That’s the sort of thing potential buyers need to hear.
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bitterbrook
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Always remember STEP NUMBER ONE!
Member since September 2006
Posts: 99
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Post by bitterbrook on Oct 28, 2018 10:08:17 GMT -5
My final update on this (I promise)!
I thought I liked the light at first, but as I used the machine there was something just not right about the light. Then I realized it's a concentrated beam, and I'm used to the wide beam of my Genie's 100-watt incandescent bulb.
I don't know if this is a "valid" comment as I can't verify this on the internet, but the 80 and 220-grit wheels on this particular machine are a smaller diameter than the 280-grit wheel. No biggie, you say, but I ran a cab into that 280-grit wheel SEVERAL times when working on the 220-grit wheel. Annoying and time-consuming!
This unit did not have a foot switch for the pump, and I wasn't sure if it was good for the pump to leave it running, so I powered the pump through a power strip so I could turn it off when I was teaching away from the station. Minor, but just a suggestion to buy the pump's foot switch if you get one of these.
One reason the hoods were so difficult to remove (not immediately recognizable) was that the "inside" side of the hood wraps around the end of the pump. If you just try to pull it up, the hood catches the pump and makes you think it's stuck. Well, it is, but you just have to pick up the tray and slide it back a bit so the cutout doesn't catch the end of the pump. Yeah, I felt stupid when I realized this!
I was able to clean the beast pretty well after VERY carefully disassembling it. I did manage to knock one of the drip heads off underneath the right-hand hood. It looks as though there is some Teflon tape on the stub of the supply hose, but I don't have any. It looks like it will be a pain to re-wrap the stub so the drip head stays on tight. But maybe it will hang in there. I'll find out this coming week in class.
That's it! While I am a confirmed forever-Genie-loving lapidary, this Cab-King really is a nice machine. Except that I wouldn't recommend you put it on a weekly cleaning regimen in a classroom environment.
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Post by TheRock on Oct 31, 2018 20:04:50 GMT -5
Hi, nice review! bitterbrook I am a newbie and have minimal experience with any Cab Machine. I am a mechanical Contractor / pipe fitter by trade and I looked at the price and compared all macines and ended up purchasing the CabKing 8V1. I have left the pump and plugged in for a couple days with no ill effects however I would not recommend doing this as a Pump could Cavitate and there is a chance it could ruin the pump. CabKing should leave a Outlet Plug coming out of the machine that is energized when the power switch is tuned on. That way the pump would start and stop when you turn the the switch on or off. I agree with the lighting beam being narrow I have a harbor Freight Magnifier light at my work station that also helps with this task when needed. I get no spray on me while using the machine but I do get a trickle that runs down my right arm to my elbow that dips on my right thigh. Prolly a piece of plastic draped across my lap would solve that. Anyway I agree with your testing thanks for doing this review.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 31, 2018 21:41:40 GMT -5
I use a Cab King 8V1 as my primary cabber. Bought it new in 2014. I am happy with it. Just wish I could spend more time with it........ I have a Titan but have never gotten around to getting water to it. It is a used machine I picked up a couple of years ago and the spitter was not functional. I think I will hard plumb it like the Cab King. Just not sure when. Bill New leather kit for the geyser pump is 11 bucks plus shipping, and simple to install. I have learned to appreciate the spitters, to a degree.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 31, 2018 21:58:26 GMT -5
I have a genie, got it used. Paid so little it would be cruel to tell you. I have the usual complaints but it serves me well. The spitters really aren't an issue, especially since I also have a Graves Cabmate 1 wheel unit with a grid surface 80 grit wheel that I use for shaping, with plenty of fresh water to flush away the mud from the nastiest cabbing materials. The left side tray on the Genie takes a lot longer to need cleaning that way. I got a couple right side adaptors from Christopher Anthony and spacer kits so eventually I can switch to 2 wheels per side to allow more room between wheels, 220 hard and 280 nova on the left side, with 600 and 1200 nova on the right, and 3000 and 14000 nova on another adaptor to switch out when needed.
With all that said, the former club president has the 6 inch CK, running DP wheels, and if I was buying a new unit I think that's what I'd get.
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Post by TheRock on Oct 31, 2018 23:01:46 GMT -5
My water pump went out on my Acra Horz Band Saw and I picked up a pump from harbor freight and they hafta be tuff cause mine has steel shavings flowing through the lines. Just an Option.
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Post by johnjsgems on Nov 1, 2018 18:19:13 GMT -5
Pump leathers are $5.50 so you must have bought two sets. On the saw I was building I added a female pigtail cord for pump. Cab unit could certainly use that. I was only concerned with pump warranties so did not want to cut and hard wire cord like Gy-Roc did. I tried Harbor Freight pumps but they (and most other submersibles) won't pump water with rock dust. Or, will pump fine but not start next time unless you tap on pump. Impeller tolerance too tight. Best pump I found for dirty water pumping was a Ryobi universal tile saw pump (Home Depot under the tile saws). If you pump clean water and don't recirculate the HF pump should work fine.
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Post by grumpybill on Nov 1, 2018 18:28:44 GMT -5
I think every masonry wet saw I ever used had a Little Giant pump. Those things pumped dirty water 8 hours a day for years.
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bitterbrook
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Always remember STEP NUMBER ONE!
Member since September 2006
Posts: 99
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Post by bitterbrook on Nov 1, 2018 20:38:34 GMT -5
A switched outlet for the pump is a great idea!
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Post by TheRock on Nov 1, 2018 21:07:28 GMT -5
I think every masonry wet saw I ever used had a Little Giant pump. Those things pumped dirty water 8 hours a day for years. Little Giant is a good Pump. I was a Carrier Dealer for many years and We use them on many Installs, I put in minimum 50 Systems per year when I was doing HVAC Fulltime and prolly 20 Systems Doing it part time for a good 30 years I would say 500 in my lifetime. They are a good pump. Hartell is another good pump.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 1, 2018 21:31:22 GMT -5
Pump leathers are $5.50 so you must have bought two sets. . Titan has a double pump, requires 2.
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Post by TheRock on Nov 1, 2018 23:40:46 GMT -5
Pump leathers are $5.50 so you must have bought two sets. . Titan has a double pump, requires 2. No Wonder it throws water all over the place!
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