ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Nov 1, 2015 23:02:38 GMT -5
Interesting. I was going to say it looks really familiar to some stuff I have a little of, then I saw this third post and said "Ah Ha!". Never had heard it called that before, we always just called it clinker. Some call it all scoria although it really isn't. Interesting stuff, guess I need to play around with it a little more. Russ I'd love to hear (and see pictures) if you try tumbling some. I've tumbled it with agate before, and some of it will take a good shine with these 7-mohs companions, but some is more chip-prone, and other pieces (or colors within the same piece) are softer. Makes it an interesting new challenge. Some of the cool patterned pieces would make nice wire-wrap jewelry. Cheers!
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Nov 1, 2015 21:08:22 GMT -5
Very nice looking and cool stuff. Do you have any more info on this material? When I search, I'm finding a brand name for some kind of flooring. I'm wondering if it explains some stuff I find occasionally that I thought was pottery shards until I started finding pieces with shapes that are almost certainly not man made. Here's some Wikipedia stuff: "The reddish siltstone rock that caps many ridges and buttes in the Powder River Basin (Wyoming), and in western North Dakota is called porcelanite, which also may resemble the coal burning waste "clinker" or volcanic "scoria".[68] Clinker is rock that has been fused by the natural burning of coal. In the Powder River Basin approximately 27 to 54 billion tons of coal burned within the past three million years.[69] Wild coal fires in the area were reported by the Lewis and Clark Expedition as well as explorers and settlers in the area.[70]" I was near the North Dakota border on the Yellowstone river when I gathered this stuff. You could see the remnants of the coal seam that burned and "fired" the clay layer. The geologist on the trip identified it as porcelanite (there are variant spellings: porcelainite, porcellainite, porcellanite, etc.) I kinda like that name better than "clinker," now that I read this. It's a better description, too - like natural porcelain. Search for "porcelanite rock" and you'll get more hits.
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Nov 1, 2015 19:39:24 GMT -5
What variety! Are they all the same type of rock? very shiny Yep, it's all porcelanite. The heat from the coal-seam fire also gives the color variety, depending on the content of the clay and amount of heat it's subjected to. Here's some at the base of a bluff where it falls from. You can see some of the black coal on the right as well. Raw porcelanite by Inga Holmquist, on Flickr
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Nov 1, 2015 17:43:28 GMT -5
Hi Guys - Here's what just came out of the Lot-O. (Actually this is two batches) Picked up a bunch of this porcelanite stuff while kayaking the Yellowstone river in northeastern Montana this fall. It's naturally fired clay, created when a coal seam burned underground. Can be tricky - very uneven mohs, random composition - but I like trying to coax a shine on ugly ducklings and tough cases. I might try creating more slurry in the Lot-O to protect against chipping. I might give in and try add another step. This is still my 2-step method. Anyone else worked with this stuff? Porcelanite - favorite new rock to tumble polish. by Inga Holmquist, on Flickr
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 13, 2015 10:20:46 GMT -5
Hi Captbob - I just ordered my first lid gasket replacement. it didn't wear through, but it is getting thinned down, so I wanted a replacement handy. The barrel itself isn't showing much wear. I'd be interested to hear how often others replace the lid gasket or the liner on the 40 pounders. I've run that barrel for a couple of years and this is the first replacement I've ordered. I usually run it with either the very course grit, or with no grit at all, just to knock the matrix off so I don't waste grit on that task. The 40 lb. is great at that.
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 12, 2015 17:47:50 GMT -5
ingawh, I have heard of people doing that. My friend runs 60/90 for a month, then goes to polish. Haven't tried that yet. Do you think running 60/90 for 7-10 days is too long? I have a ton (literally) of stuff to tumble so if I could shorten that time it would help. I doubt that's too long - it wouldn't be for me, but I really like the grit to be fully ground up. But I also start with really course grit - 17 or 25. It grinds a bit longer and maybe gets more done, so I let my batches go for at least two weeks usually.
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 12, 2015 13:51:37 GMT -5
...I tumble a lot of bigger stuff, and these units are great, particularly the Lortone. I haven't weighed the full barrel, but it has a handle welded on it so it's ok to pick up. I use these units for rough through 600, then to my vibe for prepolish and polish. I run 60/90 for 7-10 days. You do NOT need to recharge or change grit. $300 is a great price. If you see another, grab it. I'm with you - I LOVE my Lortone 40lb. I'm afraid I paid for it new, but I love the quick course grinds it does. I've got 2 Lortone 12 lb. as well that I still run. Seldom use the two 6 lbs anymore, and the two 3 pounders have sat quiet for years. As long as you balance the load well, I haven't had a problem with bruising or breaking in Big Bertha. I also really like that if you let the 40 lb. go a few extra days, the grit is completely ground away. I use a really course grit - Silicone Carbide 25 and let it go a couple of weeks. Then, for rocks that are ready to move on, I can go straight to my second (and final) step for a polish in the the Lot-O.
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 11, 2015 15:10:33 GMT -5
...In straight obsidian I think the gravel and ceramic mix prevents a class is water wet Loto shine on the obsidian. My aquarium gravel is the brownish mix of colors from Walmart. It has now rounded out and is very hard, it has a awesome shine! I still use it in my mixed loads of agate, jasper etc. Hi Orrum - for the heck of it, try this test - scrape the tip of your thumbnail along a beautifully rounded and polished piece of quartz or agate. Then try it on both the ceramic media and perhaps the aquarium gravel you use. I also have some brown gravel that takes a lovely polish, but doesn't pass the fingernail test. I use it to polish other 7-mohs stuff, and it does fine, but I don't use it on obsidian. Obsidian gets only the smoothest-finished agate/quartz media. My thumbnail is the arbiter. It can feel the comparative roughness of the more opaque gravels and the ceramic media. I'll be curious if you get a chance and are willing to give this a try. Cheers! Inga
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 10, 2015 12:21:17 GMT -5
I'm afraid that summary isn't quite right for the Loto. (The Tbs. of psyllium and the Clorox would be for a 12 lb. rotary tumbler.) In the Loto, I don't use Clorox, and only use about 1/4 tsp. of psyllium. The Clorox is needed in the rotary because it takes longer and bio-action will start on the fiber. I don't like polishing in the rotary, but every now and then I want to polish something that I can't force into my beloved Loto. :-)
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 10, 2015 0:34:31 GMT -5
James I mixed some aquarium gravel in my Loto and as long as I didn't use too much it worked good. Too much causes the load to separate. We discussed this b4. Now I did a batch of obsidian with the ceramics and some rounded aquarium gravel. Bad idea, the gravel must be scratching the obsidian because I can't get my classic Loto shine!!# Can you help me understand what you mean that the load "separates?" I wish I could see what you're doing, because my experience is so different. I often use half gravel, half obsidian. If I add ceramics, I don't get as good results. The world is a mysterious place. :-)
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
|
Post by ingawh on Oct 10, 2015 0:25:01 GMT -5
By coincidence, tonight was obsidian night at my rock club. I've made a few converts and it was fun to see other people's tumbling success using my recipe in the Lot-O-Tumbler. Some crazy gorgeous stuff out there. I'd love to see other people's obsidian photos.....anyone ready to post?
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 9, 2015 17:58:14 GMT -5
Maybe it's not too late for James to send her some mud too! Wow - What DID I miss??
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
|
Post by ingawh on Oct 9, 2015 17:57:08 GMT -5
Happy to make your acquaintance ingawh. You've got my newbie, battered mind thinking about different things. Are you still using metamucil in your follow-up stages? Yep, still a devotee of the psyllium fiber, thanks for asking. I use it no matter what stage/grit I may have going in the Lot-O. It not only makes a nice slurry that helps protect against chipping, it helps me remove every speck of slurry during clean up. My other important best-friend is the large document-sized rubber bands I wind around the outside of the barrel and up over the top to keep the cap on so it doesn't get pushed off by a big rock and let the slurry dry out. (Wind the bands around under the barrel once it's seated in the tumbler, so they go outside the red "arms" that hold the jar.) Cheers! Inga
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 9, 2015 14:44:45 GMT -5
Let's see if I remember how to post pictures. This is a load of finished obsidian shown with the exact gravel used to polish it. This is one full load. I just get better results with the gravel than the ceramic media, which doesn't get as smooth as the agate/quartz gravel.
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Oct 9, 2015 14:33:36 GMT -5
Hi friends,
Sorry I've been out of the loop for a while. Thanks for thinking of me. For the folks that are concerned about using agate/quartz as media rather than ceramic, try this test:
Take a piece of ceramic media - it can even be one you've used a lot that has been well smoothed. Then take a small piece of nicely rounded, polished agate or quartz like I use in the Lot-O-Tumbler. Scrape the tip of your thumbnail across the ceramic media. Now scrape across the agate. To me, the difference is very clear - the agate is much smoother. I believe that's why it gives a smoother polish to obsidian.
Best wishes,
Inga
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Mar 28, 2015 14:19:45 GMT -5
Tastes like Tang, find myself sampling it when over in the shed. Beats the heck out of prune juice !! That's hilarious! (Do you remember, "Is it a dessert-topping? is it a floor-wax!?" We've got, "Is it a rock-polishing medium? Is it the secret to regularity?!" Once you get through the process, I'll be dying to hear how you like the results. (And not dealing with all that sticky sugar - did that ever get old?) Cheers!
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Mar 28, 2015 13:48:53 GMT -5
Great photo! Yep - it gets almost like a gel. I think that's the secret to it's success. In the Lot-O, I only use about a 1/4 tsp for a batch, but there's so little water, it develops quickly into a nice thick slurry that keeps the grit in suspension. Between that and the liquid hand soap, I have a thick, smooth slurry that doesn't foam and keeps the stones rolling effectively. It also makes clean up super easy because the gel hangs on to the grit, so when the gel washes away, it takes all slurry away with it, right out of any cracks or pits.
I'll look forward to hearing how it worked for you. Cheers!
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Mar 21, 2015 17:09:53 GMT -5
Greetings Ladies & Gents, Ceramic media does indeed take a polish, but it must be through the same stages of grit and polish as the rocks to date I have used Lortone Aluminum Oxide polish and Tin Oxide, it also polishes with 1.0 micron (equivalent to 25000 grit) Borax too. I used the grey cutting ceramic media, but still polished to reasonable shine. Polished ceramic media by ingawh, on Flickr So I went back and looked at my old ceramic media, and, as you say, it has a reasonable shine. It doesn't look as polished to me as the quartz and agate I use, however. Perhaps that has to do with its opacity. I also just like the shine I get on obsidian better when I use the quartz and agate. But as an experiment, I may try the ceramic again and see what happens. Thanks for keeping us all thinking. :-)
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
|
Post by ingawh on Mar 21, 2015 13:29:48 GMT -5
Ok so I started a course tumble yesterday in my Loto. Two table spoons is 120/220 and two table spoons of borax. Started with just wet rocks, no excess water. It got really dry really quickly so I started added some water via spray bottle, checking frequently and thinking I needed to keep adding water because it kept looking so dry and the action was so slow. Seemed like I was adding too much at the time but it was SO dry looking. Needless to say when I checked it this morning, it wasn't hardly rolling at all. Pulled the tub, turned it over and a good bit of liquid poured out in my hand. I had in fact added too much water and it was standing in the bottom. Looking back I see where a few were using only 1 tablespoon of borax instead of two. Figuring out the correct amount of water appears to be tricky for me right now. But I'll get it. Trail and error!! Hi copiahdad - I'm sure most of us Loto lovers have done this. I remember it well. It's one of the reasons I started adding my psyllium - I found that a little thickener gives the slurry a little body when it needs it, and that helps get it rolling. Looking forward to hearing more about your adventures in tumbling!
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
|
Post by ingawh on Mar 21, 2015 12:24:46 GMT -5
ingawh- check this out, Mohs 5.5 obsidian and glass filler broke this grit down fast. I think your smooth quartz pebbles may have a lot to do with polishing the obsidian. Maybe they do not break the grit down much faster than the obsidian judging from the grit breakdown this softer material did . Food for thought. Interesting stuff! I have never used a sonic tumbler but I'm curious to learn whatever you find out. My experience has been that obsidian can't break down grit well, but that's in my rotary and vibe. I've been thinking about why I prefer my highly polished gravel to the traditional ceramic media. Ceramic may be hard, but it never takes a polish. To me, that means it's not as perfectly smooth. My beautifully smooth little rounds really seem to burnish the final product. Thanks for thinking of me!
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