ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Oct 3, 2016 21:16:53 GMT -5
Thank you guys for the suggestions so far. Anyone else???
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Oct 3, 2016 17:20:56 GMT -5
Also a fan of your leather work. Lightsabers? No idea how you'd even start! Look up TCSS, the Custom Saber Shop. They sell everything you need to make them! My force awakens saber was a completed replica I modified to take electronics tho. TCSS has tutorials in their forum as well as a few other places! They can be a lot of work, but very rewarding! I noticed that after your light saber video was over a link came up to a Grant Thompson video. For anyone who hasn't seen any of Grant's videos, he makes all kinds of things from scratch. From gas powered metal forges to sugar rockets, he has something that even you can build. My husband built a version of his Randomizer Rocket powered by one of the homemade sugar rocket motors he has another video of. I'm trying to find the video of it (the one my husband made) lifting off.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Oct 3, 2016 16:58:13 GMT -5
I am writing to ask opinions on how to handle my rather unique shaped by nature pendant shaped Michigan Lightning Stone (A.K.A. Septarian Nodule) as a piece of future jewelry to be sold. I am torn weather to market it as is, naturally shaped by nature, or go ahead and make it into a more polished finished cab pendant (which would require only minimal work to accomplish.) How would you sell it? What would you rather buy? Finished by hand or by nature? In which form would it be of more value, assuming it has any to begin with that is. One side is ideal for the cab side and one is ideal for the flat back if made by hand into a cab. It is pretty irregular on both sides with nothing done though. Other side of it.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 29, 2016 20:04:45 GMT -5
Looks like quartzite to me. Comes in all colors depending on which mineral salts infuse it....Mel From what I can tell with your photos, quartzite would be first on my list too because it sort of looks like it plus yours is apparently pretty hard as well.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 28, 2016 20:51:24 GMT -5
No I found it. I was a the dr office and it caught my eye. This is a very small piece it's roughly 6x6x4 inches. And heavy So it was like, in the landscaping or something? In other words, you weren't technically out rockhounding in the wild somewhere? The reason I asked is because location of find can help identify what a rock is....unless it's from some landscape rocks. If you bought it I would tell you to ask the seller. If you found it on a rockhounding trip, say, to a glacial till area of Michigan it would even help narrow things down. If it was part of a landscape rock arrangement in the Dr. office parking lot I am wasting my time trying to identify by location and could be almost anything that is used as such. Unfortunately it looks like your camera focused more on the keyboard and not the rock in your second picture and in the first picture the colors are overwhelmed by flash blowout so visual I.D. might be fairly difficult for many here with the photos provided. When performing a scratch test with a nail just scrape the rock solidly. If the rock is softer a scratch will be made on the rock that you can feel and plainly see. Not to be mistaken for a color streak left by the nail and is not a scratch which you can't feel. Mohs Hardness of Common Objects fingernail 2 to 2.5 copper 3 nail 4 <<<Notice: the nail isn't very hard. If it fails to scratch try a file to narrow the hardness down some more. glass 5.5 knife blade 5 to 6.5 steel file 6.5 streak plate 6.5 to 7 quartz 7 If it turns out to be harder than a file I would try quartz. Your rock if it resists the file might be some form of quartzite which is actually quite hard.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 28, 2016 19:24:03 GMT -5
never seen anything like this in Michigan so I grabbed it. red and tan colors, very hard to cut. Any ideas ? Did you buy it or find it?
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 20, 2016 19:59:24 GMT -5
What is that big one on the right side of pic 2? It looks very interesting. Looks like petrified wood to me. Just a guess.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 17, 2016 20:48:26 GMT -5
Sure, that's a really nice Petoskey, but I'm drooling over the puddingstone. You find those in Alpena? I was up in Petoskey at the Govt. Pier. today. Found a mess of Petoskeys but would have traded them all for some puddingstone. (I found one that must have weighed 10 lb. It's about 3/4 Petoskey, 1/4 mud.)
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 16, 2016 12:39:30 GMT -5
At 56 years of age, single and actively dating or whatever for the last 22 years, that worrying about licking a rock is about the last thing on my mind considering all the stuff floating around now days. Just sayin'.... I have, like most people, tasted, kissed or licked a good number of things that in hindsight I should not have. Including but not limited to Horse Radish Ice cream, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Ghost pepper salsa, ice sickles, my ex. Thank you for the warning about licking rocks, next time I go the the rock shop i'll have my date lick the rocks instead! LOLOL Silly people. Just spit on the rock and rub the spit in. Leave your tongue in your mouth and transfer the spit by gravity. I personally never lick things like rocks. That's disgusting. I always just bring h2o to use. Always remember parasites, parasites, parasites.....we are surrounded by them. Now, let me tell you about the rockhound who liked to lick rocks from the U.P. in the mine piles. Notice I used past tense.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 14, 2016 19:57:05 GMT -5
We are going to be taking a trip from central IL to Kalamazoo MI in a couple of weeks. Just wondering if there is any rock shops along the way or in the Kzoo area worth going to. Also will be along Lake Michigan for a little bit would be nice to know if there us a good place to rockhound there. 38.5 miles west northwest of Kzoo is an area on Lake Michigan where you can get some nice beach rocks and the occasional Michigan septarian nodule. Using the city of South Haven as the central spot (38.5 miles from Kzoo,) south of the city of South Haven check Van Buren State park which has a huge rock strewn beach, just north of Van Buren is a conservation area called Pilgrim Haven with beach access, but I've never been there and don't know if collecting is even permitted or even if the beach is rocky or sandy. North of that just a little more is a small county operated beach called Deer Lick Creek, and up to the north of South Haven just west of a little village named Ganges are West Side County Park and a little beach called Piers Cove. Pretty beach rocks are prevalent in the southern areas (I found a half geode lined with druzy crystals as well as a Petoskey stone at Deer Lick and there is a limited amount of septarian nodules found there from time to time) and up north of South Haven septarian nodules are fairly common at West Side and Piers Cove. The biggest septarians can be found just off the beach in about two feet of water (might be four feet this year though due to high water levels) and are easy enough to see. Sometimes they seem to disappear entirely from the beach and then come back a few days later and there is a boatload of them right out there in the open up on shore on the beach. Lots of times there are just a few and only can be found in the creek and its outwash to the lake. The beaches at Deer Lick and Piers Cove are in constant change in size and shape with the streams that enter the lake at these places constantly changing routes across the beach and cutting entirely new channels occasionally which along with some violent wave action is also constantly exposing new and different rocks and reshaping the beach. Of the five places mentioned, Deer Lick Creek is the hardest to find as it is basically around fourteen or fifteen country road turns and down at the dead end of the last road on the way. It can be found with persistence. My favorite beach of the ones I have mentioned is Piers Cove due to the high quality and numbers of septarians that can be had there if you get there on a good day. I just call it septarian cove. Both Deer Lick and Piers Cove beaches are VERY SMALL and boundary signs are present and should not be taken lightly. I have been there on occasions at both places when the adjoining property owners have had the county sheriff escort folks off the beach who were not within the beach boundaries. Deer Lick has a very clean porta potty and a medium small parking lot. Dogs are welcome there but owners must pick up after their pets. Piers Cove has minimal parking (maybe 10 spots or less), no facilities, and dogs are not allowed on the beach. Dogs are also not allowed on the beach at West Side or Van Buren. West Side and Van Buren both have restrooms but they are closed in the off season. There might be more rockhounding beaches farther south but I have never ventured beyond Van Buren. I believe Piers Cove is about the northern limit of places to rockhound not on private property. After the city of Holland, there is nothing but sand for miles and miles until you get to Frankfort. Then the hounding continues north from there. I personally live about a mile from Lake Michigan right in the middle of the long sandy zone about thirty miles south of Silver Lake which is dune buggy central so any time I want to go looking for rocks I have at least a 75 mile drive either way. Note: There is a fee to use Michigan's state parks and I believe that West Side also has a small parking fee during the swimming season. The fee booth is probably closed by now there though. Deer Lick and Piers Cove are both free. The water in Lake Michigan is at almost record, if not record, levels and having not visited the beaches I have talked about since early spring, I can not even guarantee that there is any beach left to hound on there, especially Deer Lick and Piers Cove as they are small to begin with. Just one more thing. If you happen to find a "Thunderegg" (any variety at all excluding septarians which sort of resemble thundereggs but aren't) during your Lake Michigan foray, make sure I hear about that one as a form of payment for telling you about these spots. If you don't find a "Thunderegg", well then no payment required at all. Just east of Kzoo in Galesburg is The Rockhound Rock ShopWest Southwest of Kzoo is the Geoscape Rock Shop
Sorry, I don't know if these places are worth a visit or not having never been to either of them personally. Hope this info helps you out some and hope the weather is kind during your visit. It starts to suck badly around there in about a month.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 14, 2016 17:44:25 GMT -5
I still don't think thunderegg, especially since it just doesn't look like one at all on the outside (remember, you guys are only seeing the poor quality photo, not the actual uncut rock I originally picked up which was not spheroidal and was irregular in shape,) but let me entertain the thought. It does look a little like a thunderegg inside. It looks like the kind of stuff you see inside a thunderegg but, it does lack the visible mineral filled cracks (sutures) that break the surface of the rock. The pictures of the slices show one, or maybe two at the most, entrance fissures for the minerals to enter, not at all like the typical thunderegg with multiple surface fractures allowing intrusion of minerals to the middle of the rock. How many people have ever found a thunderegg in Lake Michigan? In the Leelanaw area? The geology of that area does not include thundereggs. OK, lets say a glacier deposited it because there are no known occurrences of thundereggs in the lower peninsula of Michigan. Where to the north of Leelanaw are there thundereggs? If some one can point out how one lonely thunderegg found it's way to this beach, where this type of rock is not even known to exist, I will concur with the thunderegg theory (and don't tell me it's one of the Lake Superior T-Egg variety because it just plain isn't and does not even remotely resemble one of those.) The closest thing to thunder eggs in Michigan are the septarian nodules found normally in the south, and not normally in the north half of the lower peninsula (although some may exist up there too, maybe left by retreating glaciers.) The septarian nodules in Michigan are quite distinctive and look nothing like a normal thunder egg on the outside. Anyone out there have something to compare to a (possible) thunder egg found in Petoskey territory? I found one other photo of what looks like a typical thunderegg that was found in lake superior. Once again, it looks nothing like the rock I found. Also, note in the post that the rock was never actually positively I.D.ed as a thunderegg. page with thunderegg found in lake superior
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 13, 2016 6:26:56 GMT -5
Chalcedony isn't necessarily found in certain metamorphic rocks. Chalcedony IS metamorphic rock. It's is formed in volcanic regions by a water based chemistry. Water metamorphosing the rocks into agates and otherwise.... This ain't it. The wiki said chalcedony could be commonly found in metamorphic rocks. That would make sense since it is a metamorphic rock as well. Seems to me that finding agate "in" a metamorphic rock is entirely possible. Up in Keweenaw there are agates actually inside rocks. You can find them still in the cliffs and crags up there. Along certain beaches, they are still weathering out of the rocks on shore. Going through the mine piles can turn up agates inside of poor rock. They have to be broken out. Lots of them are copper replacement agates with copper banding. Lake superior agates are actually formed inside voids in the volcanic igneous host rock and the exterior of the agate when freshly weathered out reflects the rough interior walls of the void. Of course, these rockbound agates are also caused by water creating the metamorphic conditions. This entry from the Gitche Gumee agate and history museum explains agate formation: Agates develop as secondary deposits in hollow cavities, called vesicles. Although they can form in all types of host rock, most of the world's agates developed in ancient volcanic lava. When the continents were first forming, layers of molten lava pushed toward the earth's surface through rift zone cracks, volcanoes, and other geologic events. Within the lava, there were pockets of trapped gases. Later, these gases escaped through cracks that formed as the igneous rock cooled and hardened, leaving hollow cavities. Other cracks and seams also formed when adjoining sections of lava cooled at different rates. These empty cavities and seams filled with fluids rich in dissolved and suspended quartz molecules (silica), as well as other mineral impurities. When the silica concentration became supersaturated, it developed a gelatin-like consistency either throughout the pocket or in a layer that served as the active crystallization front. Over time, the silica molecules began to form miniature fibrous microcrystals that attached to the sides of the cavity or seam. During the filling-in process other mineral impurities collected at the inside of the chalcedony silica band, forming intervening and often contrasting bands. This pattern repeated until the entire vesicle was filled in, or until all the silica rich solution was used up. If there was the proper balance of silica and mineral impurities, then the entire cavity filled with alternating bands. If there was an insufficient quantity of mineral impurity or if the pressures and temperatures changed, the cavity completed filling in with macrocrystalline quartz, or another form of silica. So according to someone that I would consider an expert on everything agate, agates ARE formed and found IN igneous (and other types of) rocks (until they are weathered out or otherwise liberated.) From other research: Much of the agate not found in pockets (vesicles) is actually formed in fissures. It is this type of agate most likely to be found in non igneous agate bearing formations. I personally was skeptical of the agate possibilities of his sample from the first close up.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 12, 2016 20:08:28 GMT -5
Actually appears to be a thunderegg to me. Lake Superior does have T-eggs. Maybe Lake Michigan does too. Cool find!....mel I have included a link that states Lake Superior thunder eggs are pea size and not much bigger and can only be found in one small area offshore and on it's accompanying beach and they don't resemble my rock at all. Most of the thunder eggs I've seen really don't resemble this rock IRL in any way. This rock has a fairly smooth exterior with visible signs of fortification and chalcedony on the outside. The end that I ended up cutting had a huge fortification right on the surface and that is what was being cut across in the slice pictures.The easily spotted by eye features like the surface fortifications are what attracted me to it and what made me pick it up. I'm pretty sure that if it would have looked like a typical thunderegg I would have walked right past it without a second glance since I wouldn't have seen it as an agate and especially because I was really there looking for Petoskey and not thundereggs. It would be really neat if it was a thunder egg. Has anyone out there found a thunder egg in Lake Michigan? If it is a thunder egg it's a weird one. I think it looks more like this which was labeled crazy lace agate. Looks more like the example on the top inside.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 12, 2016 19:27:11 GMT -5
It doesn't really have agate characteristics. Looks kind of opaque to me and it almost looks like some sort of jasper if it's not the granite you mention. Some math: No conchoidal breaks anywhere. Opaque Grainy Multiple components ___________________ Granite I tend to agree with you and fossilman . Sounds better than agate or jasper. I was holding out some hope for him with the "if it's not the granite" part. From the Wiki page: By definition, granite is an igneous rock with at least 20% quartz and up to 65% alkali feldspar by volume. Also from Wiki: Agate /ˈæɡət/ is a cryptocrystalline variety of silica, chiefly chalcedony, characterised by its fineness of grain and brightness of color. Although agates may be found in various kinds of rock, they are classically associated with volcanic rocks and can be common in certain metamorphic rocks. Those rocks are definitely not any kind of chalcedony.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 12, 2016 10:36:52 GMT -5
I say that would be my guess too.....I cut lots of that material.... It doesn't really have agate characteristics. Looks kind of opaque to me and it almost looks like some sort of jasper if it's not the granite you mention.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 12, 2016 10:01:25 GMT -5
NICE! All the "Lakers" I have been given are a mixture of rock,and are just called "Lakers" because they come from the Great Lakes area...I just mix them in with the real "Lakers".... I should have called them peelers and fortifications instead of lakers because that is what I was trying to compare it to. Of course, this one is a laker too I guess since it was found on one of the Great Lakes. I also picked up some petoskeys. The small oval one near the bottom left is only in need of a final polishing on 600 grit, then some 1200, then off to the buffing wheel. The big one near the middle has the most complete but unfortunately the lightest pattern of them all. The ones showing mud will be shaped and fashioned into maybe some Michigan shaped pendants and most mud removed hopefully.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 11, 2016 18:17:35 GMT -5
Took a trip up to Peterson Park by Northport in Leelanau. I've never found an agate there before and didn't even know they could be found there. I was walking the beach and came across an actual agate. Brought it home and sliced it up a little. Below you can see some fortification. Held a slice up to the light. Same slice laying on the table. You can see the table through the window of clear agate. Another slice up to the light. Same slice on the table. In the center of this next pic is the uncut half of the rock. It doesn't really resemble the Lakers and Water Level agates found on Lake Superior. I can't say what it is actually called when found on Lake Michigan instead of Lake Superior. It isn't the prettiest agate ever found. But it is the prettiest agate I ever found on Lake Michigan. Oh yeah, the water there was so high the old beach line is under water and the old line of above the water rocks that used to be nowhere near the water are now the new beach line. Good thing is that the wave action has uncovered lots of Petoskey stones that used to be high and dry. Found a few nice round ones and a bunch of cutters where I will have to extract usable fossils.
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 10, 2016 20:00:36 GMT -5
I think it's no coincidence that the specific gravity is exactly the same not to mention the other correlating factors involved. Location of find is always a good way to narrow these things down. Did you personally find it somewhere or know where it was found? I haven't seen any mention of that so far. How did you come into possession of the rock? Is there someone who gave it to you that you can ask where it came from? Unfortunately, I do not know where it came from. It was just a rock that was in a large group of rock that I bought at an estate sale. Well then at least between the bunch of us we narrowed it way down for you
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ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
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Post by ziggy on Sept 9, 2016 22:02:49 GMT -5
ziggy You make a strong case for algodonite. Do not consider this a challenge. How do we definitively prove that is the case? I have some on the way and offer to volunteer a sample for the team. I can perform diagnostics or offer you a sample to play with. No charge. I'm loving the diagnosis..... And the detective work is a sort of adventure. That is honestly what I think it is but if I'm wrong that's ok. After the copper arsenic choices I too would make Nicolite my next choice, since there's not a whole lot else to compare it to. One problem though is that nickle arsenic and copper arsenic based minerals and mixtures are often found together. One good thing is when found together it is usually with one or the other being the more predominant of the two in most known locations. Or, maybe it came from a location where only one of the minerals are present which would pretty much make things almost certain. Maybe if we can find out where it came from and which is found in greater concentrations at that location we can help further put it to rest. The exact match on the stat(specific gravity and mohs hardness) and looks and streak thing is what makes me think it is the Algodonite. That is usually a fairly safe bet since that is the majority of the normal everyday rock identification process.
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