vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 6, 2022 10:05:19 GMT -5
I think I have a fairly good grasp on the stages, and times. But there are a few questions that I do have.
1) Is it ok to use Ceramic Media through all the stages or is there a reason to only use it on the last stages? 2) If ceramic media shouldnt be used on the First stages, is it Ok to top out the gaps when tumbling larger rocks with Pebble rocks? 3) When doing repeated stage one for cutting and shaping, do you have to dump and rinse the rocks on the recharge or can you just add more corse grit to the slurry in the tumbler and continue? 4) Is it Ok to Add Borax at all stages to thicken the slurry a bit? 5) Should I do a Burnishing stage between each grit with soap and Borax? 6) If the answer to question three is dump and rinse should I burnish before the recharge? 7) When doing Burnishing, Does it have to be Ivory soap or could I do like Borax and Zote Soap or Borax and dish Soap or even just Borax?
I think that covers all the questions I have for now, thanks in advance all for the help.
Vance
|
|
stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
|
Post by stefan on Sept 6, 2022 17:45:41 GMT -5
OK gonna give it my best to answer each one 1- It is ok to use, but you're wasting grit grinding down ceramics in the course stages. 2- It is IDEAL to add smaller rocks to fill in the gaps. The better mix of sizes gives a better run. 3- I dump and rinse and reuse some of the old slurry (with fresh grit) to kick start the slurry. I run a constant barrel of course so I need to sort my rocks at every recharge. 4- Borax really doesn't thicken but does softer the water and seems to make the grit work slightly better. To thicken the slurry on the cheap see #3 5- You can but I never do. I only burnish with borax after final polish. 6- see #5. 7- see #5.
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 6, 2022 18:38:30 GMT -5
OK gonna give it my best to answer each one 1- It is ok to use, but you're wasting grit grinding down ceramics in the course stages. 2- It is IDEAL to add smaller rocks to fill in the gaps. The better mix of sizes gives a better run. 3- I dump and rinse and reuse some of the old slurry (with fresh grit) to kick start the slurry. I run a constant barrel of course so I need to sort my rocks at every recharge. 4- Borax really doesn't thicken but does softer the water and seems to make the grit work slightly better. To thicken the slurry on the cheap see #3 5- You can but I never do. I only burnish with borax after final polish. 6- see #5. 7- see #5. Awesome thanks a ton man!
|
|
brybry
Cave Dweller
Enter your message here...
Member since October 2021
Posts: 1,220
|
Post by brybry on Sept 6, 2022 19:48:26 GMT -5
Instead of blowing money on ceramics, go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get a bag of pea gravel. For $4-8 a bag (25-50lb bag) you can use them as your smalls in your stage 1 until completely smoothed and then roll them through the other stages. They come in handy if you get a vibe and the various sizes and shapes help keep everything moving.
Stage 1 has no time line. They are ready to move on when YOU are ready to move them on.
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 6, 2022 20:12:53 GMT -5
Instead of blowing money on ceramics, go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get a bag of pea gravel. For $4-8 a bag (25-50lb bag) you can use them as your smalls in your stage 1 until completely smoothed and then roll them through the other stages. They come in handy if you get a vibe and the various sizes and shapes help keep everything moving. Stage 1 has no time line. They are ready to move on when YOU are ready to move them on. I did one Cheaper, tho sadly I already bought the Ceramic, but I gathered a gallon and a half of pea gravel from a vacant lot.
|
|
steelheader
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2021
Posts: 50
|
Post by steelheader on Sept 6, 2022 21:15:28 GMT -5
Welcome to the game vance! Seems like your questions have been answered pretty darn well. I have nothing to add other than get ready to blow more money
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 6, 2022 21:50:01 GMT -5
Welcome to the game vance! Seems like your questions have been answered pretty darn well. I have nothing to add other than get ready to blow more money I am a mead Maker, that is nothing new man, have you saw the price of Honey today? Hell rocks are cheaper lol
|
|
markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
|
Post by markb on Sept 6, 2022 22:15:43 GMT -5
There are lots of good answers here already, because everybody has their preferences. I think it's smart of you to get several inputs from others to find common solutions and/or options for yourself. I'm going to try and fill in some of the process of what I've learned in the past few months, then you can pick what you like or don't like.
My answers to your questions are below:
1) Is it ok to use Ceramic Media through all the stages or is there a reason to only use it on the last stages?
I don't use ceramics in stage 1 with my rotary tumbler, unless they are brand new and I'm doing it for their first time to soften their edges so they don't damage rocks in later stages. After they have been run through once for that purpose, I will only use them in later runs. The reason I don't use them in Stage 1, is because the rough rock will chew them up. I, like others, use "smalls", aka small sized gravel about the size of a shooter marble. I get mine from my yard, where someone once used them for ground cover. If they get ground up, it's no big deal because they are free to use. I have read some people use marbles for their smalls, because they are cheap. I have some, but have never tried them.
2) If ceramic media shouldnt be used on the First stages, is it Ok to top out the gaps when tumbling larger rocks with Pebble rocks?
Yep. I try to use small, medium and maybe 1 or 2 larger rocks in my rotary tumble, usually all the same mohs hardness, and fill in the gaps with smalls.
3) When doing repeated stage one for cutting and shaping, do you have to dump and rinse the rocks on the recharge or can you just add more corse grit to the slurry in the tumbler and continue?
You will need to inspect your rocks to determine if they can be moved to the next stage or not. If I'm tumbling nature polished rocks, I usually use only 3/4-1 Tbs of grit and check them in 4 days. But if I'm tumbling rough rock, I use 2 Tbs of 46/70 Sic to each 3lb barrel for 7 days, then decide to recharge or not, or move them on. The type of rock I'm tumbling will determine how much grit to use and how long it tumbles. It's all about trial and error because everyones rocks are different. I keep a log notebook on what rotary/vibe stage I'm in, so I don't get confused. I track the date in, grit size, tumbler type, amount of grit, amount of water (ie.. 1-1.5" below rocks), general type of rocks in barrels, date out, notes (anything learned or things to remember).
As for just recharging a tumble or starting over, I've done it many ways. Some folks like to clean it out, some like to recharge into the old, some like to add old dried slurry to thicken the new. I've found that if you are using the correct amount of grit for the time you are letting the barrels tumble, it should all be used up at the end leaving only the liquid slurry, which gets dumped out when you inspect your rocks. If this is the case when I open the barrel, I dump out the contents into a strainer, and if most of the gunk (if there is any) at the bottom is gone, then I use an old toothbrush to brush clean the inside rim of the barrel with water, removing any slurry or debris. A good seal here will keep your barrel from leaking. I strain the contents of my barrels into a yogurt container (below the strainer) and spray and wash them off to remove most of the slurry, move them into a clean water container, inspect and sort them for the next stage or return them for a Stage 1 redo. I have both wet and dry containers for all stages. Rocks with cracks and holes go into wet containers, as you don't want any grit to dry in a crack or it may split the rock. I use a dental pick and water bottle to remove any grit I can see in cracks, etc. I then refill the barrel with new rocks, smalls, grit and fresh water and back on the tumbler it goes. After a few times of this or if things get gunky, or I need to stop the tumble, I do a complete clean out. I can do it this way because I use my rotary tumbler for Stage 1 only. Then, I use the vibe for Stages 2-4. When I used my rotary tumbler for all stages, I had to clean it out each time.
A couple months ago I started a thread on how effective was it really to recharge or start afresh and got a variety of mixed responses. Search my threads and you can find it. Some have been reclaiming their slurry all along, and adding it to their tumbles. But I have found no documented proof that it really helps or not. I did it for awhile, but in the end decided it wasn't worth the hassle of reclaiming the slurry because I saw no benefit or proof of benefit. Also, I'm using 2 3lb barrels and maybe for that size it doesn't make much of a difference.
4) Is it Ok to Add Borax at all stages to thicken the slurry a bit?
I know some folks claim and do this, but I've never known Borax to thicken a slurry. Thus, I only use Borax to clean my rocks when I change from a Sic grit to a AO grit (after stage 2, 3 and polish).
5) Should I do a Burnishing stage between each grit with soap and Borax?
Your choice, see my answer above for what I do.
6) If the answer to question three is dump and rinse should I burnish before the recharge?
For me this depends on whether there is gunk at the bottom of the barrel or not, and I answered that above.
7) When doing Burnishing, Does it have to be Ivory soap or could I do like Borax and Zote Soap or Borax and dish Soap or even just Borax?
I have only heard of Ivory soap scrapes or Borax. I use Borax because we had a box and it is CHEAP, and effective. Look for it in the grocery store near the laundry detergent.
Hope this helps!
markb
|
|
quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by quartz on Sept 6, 2022 22:29:46 GMT -5
For burnish, I use the cheapest dry laundry soap I can find, mixed to nearly pancake batter thickness, run it for a couple days. There are arguments for and against this process, but me, wife, son, and several others say it helps on pet. wood. Been doing this for 20 years. I burnish only after polish. Edited to say I use powdered laundry soap, never heard of or seen Zote before, it might well work, I dunno.
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 6, 2022 22:43:33 GMT -5
There are lots of good answers here already, because everybody has their preferences. I think it's smart of you to get several inputs from others to find common solutions and/or options for yourself. I'm going to try and fill in some of the process of what I've learned in the past few months, then you can pick what you like or don't like. My answers to your questions are below: 1) Is it ok to use Ceramic Media through all the stages or is there a reason to only use it on the last stages? I don't use ceramics in stage 1 with my rotary tumbler, unless they are brand new and I'm doing it for their first time to soften their edges so they don't damage rocks in later stages. After they have been run through once for that purpose, I will only use them in later runs. The reason I don't use them in Stage 1, is because the rough rock will chew them up. I, like others, use "smalls", aka small sized gravel about the size of a shooter marble. I get mine from my yard, where someone once used them for ground cover. If they get ground up, it's no big deal because they are free to use. I have read some people use marbles for their smalls, because they are cheap. I have some, but have never tried them. 2) If ceramic media shouldnt be used on the First stages, is it Ok to top out the gaps when tumbling larger rocks with Pebble rocks? Yep. I try to use small, medium and maybe 1 or 2 larger rocks in my rotary tumble, usually all the same mohs hardness, and fill in the gaps with smalls. 3) When doing repeated stage one for cutting and shaping, do you have to dump and rinse the rocks on the recharge or can you just add more corse grit to the slurry in the tumbler and continue? You will need to inspect your rocks to determine if they can be moved to the next stage or not. If I'm tumbling nature polished rocks, I usually use only 3/4-1 Tbs of grit and check them in 4 days. But if I'm tumbling rough rock, I use 2 Tbs of 46/70 Sic to each 3lb barrel for 7 days, then decide to recharge or not, or move them on. The type of rock I'm tumbling will determine how much grit to use and how long it tumbles. It's all about trial and error because everyones rocks are different. I keep a log notebook on what rotary/vibe stage I'm in, so I don't get confused. I track the date in, grit size, tumbler type, amount of grit, amount of water (ie.. 1-1.5" below rocks), general type of rocks in barrels, date out, notes (anything learned or things to remember). As for just recharging a tumble or starting over, I've done it many ways. Some folks like to clean it out, some like to recharge into the old, some like to add old dried slurry to thicken the new. I've found that if you are using the correct amount of grit for the time you are letting the barrels tumble, it should all be used up at the end leaving only the liquid slurry, which gets dumped out when you inspect your rocks. If this is the case when I open the barrel, I dump out the contents into a strainer, and if most of the gunk (if there is any) at the bottom is gone, then I use an old toothbrush to brush clean the inside rim of the barrel with water, removing any slurry or debris. A good seal here will keep your barrel from leaking. I strain the contents of my barrels into a yogurt container (below the strainer) and spray and wash them off to remove most of the slurry, move them into a clean water container, inspect and sort them for the next stage or return them for a Stage 1 redo. I have both wet and dry containers for all stages. Rocks with cracks and holes go into wet containers, as you don't want any grit to dry in a crack or it may split the rock. I use a dental pick and water bottle to remove any grit I can see in cracks, etc. I then refill the barrel with new rocks, smalls, grit and fresh water and back on the tumbler it goes. After a few times of this or if things get gunky, or I need to stop the tumble, I do a complete clean out. I can do it this way because I use my rotary tumbler for Stage 1 only. Then, I use the vibe for Stages 2-4. When I used my rotary tumbler for all stages, I had to clean it out each time. A couple months ago I started a thread on how effective was it really to recharge or start afresh and got a variety of mixed responses. Search my threads and you can find it. Some have been reclaiming their slurry all along, and adding it to their tumbles. But I have found no documented proof that it really helps or not. I did it for awhile, but in the end decided it wasn't worth the hassle of reclaiming the slurry because I saw no benefit or proof of benefit. Also, I'm using 2 3lb barrels and maybe for that size it doesn't make much of a difference. 4) Is it Ok to Add Borax at all stages to thicken the slurry a bit? I know some folks claim and do this, but I've never known Borax to thicken a slurry. Thus, I only use Borax to clean my rocks when I change from a Sic grit to a AO grit (after stage 2, 3 and polish). 5) Should I do a Burnishing stage between each grit with soap and Borax? Your choice, see my answer above for what I do. 6) If the answer to question three is dump and rinse should I burnish before the recharge? For me this depends on whether there is gunk at the bottom of the barrel or not, and I answered that above. 7) When doing Burnishing, Does it have to be Ivory soap or could I do like Borax and Zote Soap or Borax and dish Soap or even just Borax? I have only heard of Ivory soap scrapes or Borax. I use Borax because we had a box and it is CHEAP, and effective. Look for it in the grocery store near the laundry detergent. Hope this helps! markb Awesome thanks for the detailed response! I have Borax and Zote which is a bar laundry soap typically used to make Homemade Liquid laundry soap. Its a 1 lb bar for less than 2 bucks so on par with or cheaper than borax.
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 6, 2022 22:44:46 GMT -5
For burnish, I use the cheapest dry laundry soap I can find, mixed to nearly pancake batter thickness, run it for a couple days. There are arguments for and against this process, but me, wife, son, and several others say it helps on pet. wood. Been doing this for 20 years. I burnish only after polish. Awesome! That would Be Zote, which is what I bought, 1lb bar for less than 2 bucks, and you just shave some off.
|
|
|
Post by liveoak on Sept 7, 2022 6:57:12 GMT -5
I recently tried something I read on here , that was to use kitty liter in the pre-polish & polishing stage to thicken the slurry.
I found 1 TAB for my 3 pounder worked.
OTOH- 2 TAB made it so thick I don't think the rocks were moving around anymore.
Patty
|
|
quartzilla
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2020
Posts: 1,237
|
Post by quartzilla on Sept 7, 2022 8:28:56 GMT -5
I use kitty litter too on stage 1 and 2 in the rotary. 1 teaspoon per lb of rock. And regarding the ceramics they are a waste in stage 1. You want that cutting action on the stones not the filler. I purposely seek out tiny stones, chips, pieces of quartz, etc on my rock hunts to fill those small spaces between the bigger rocks in the tumbler. I just move them along with the keepers and some of the small stuff ends up being keepers too! I have a Jelly Belly jelly bean dispenser that all my small keepers go in. The real tiny stuff will go into vials or jars if they are worthy.
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 7, 2022 9:59:52 GMT -5
I use kitty litter too on stage 1 and 2 in the rotary. 1 teaspoon per lb of rock. And regarding the ceramics they are a waste in stage 1. You want that cutting action on the stones not the filler. I purposely seek out tiny stones, chips, pieces of quartz, etc on my rock hunts to fill those small spaces between the bigger rocks in the tumbler. I just move them along with the keepers and some of the small stuff ends up being keepers too! I have a Jelly Belly jelly bean dispenser that all my small keepers go in. The real tiny stuff will go into vials or jars if they are worthy. I went to a vacant lot and gathered a gallon zip lock bag and a half gallon bag of pebble rocks so I should be set there as I can always go get more at the vacant lot free.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2022 22:20:56 GMT -5
A word to the wise: don’t mix pea gravel and ceramics unless you like to tediously sit and separate them when your done with a batch or unless you plan to mix together a batch of pebbles and ceramic to use together. (Dont ask why I know this!) 🙃
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 7, 2022 22:54:05 GMT -5
A word to the wise: don’t mix pea gravel and ceramics unless you like to tediously sit and separate them when your done with a batch or unless you plan to mix together a batch of pebbles and ceramic to use together. (Dont ask why I know this!) 🙃 Nope wasnt gonna mix them. Not sure I might just run a few batches of my ceramic through stage one to round it out, then when I do my actual rocks load it up with pea gravel till the polish stage and then put in the rounded ceramics. Not sure yet, Tumbler wont be here till friday.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2022 6:55:58 GMT -5
vance71975Looking forward to seeing what you turn out! What’s your first batch of rock going to be? Where did you get your grit from?
|
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Sept 8, 2022 20:07:55 GMT -5
vance71975 Looking forward to seeing what you turn out! What’s your first batch of rock going to be? Where did you get your grit from? Not 100% sure what im gonna start with Maybe Quartz,Quartzite or one of the overflowing bags of redish/brownish rocks lol. I got My Grit from Rock Shed, Along with my actual Fancy rocks, Mexican Lace agate, and Amythest. But those I am saving for much much later till I have a few tumbles of the free rocks I picked up along the railroad tracks, that way if I ruin it I dont lose as much money on it lol.
|
|
markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
|
Post by markb on Sept 8, 2022 22:21:12 GMT -5
I recently tried something I read on here , that was to use kitty liter in the pre-polish & polishing stage to thicken the slurry.
I found 1 TAB for my 3 pounder worked.
OTOH- 2 TAB made it so thick I don't think the rocks were moving around anymore.
Patty
That’s interesting Patty. What kind of kitty litter are you using since there are now so many on the market? markb
|
|
|
Post by liveoak on Sept 9, 2022 6:09:14 GMT -5
I stole borrowed some from my husbands shop that he has for oil absorption for the floor, markb. It's unscented clay based kitty liter.
I'll have to get out to his shop this weekend & see if there's a brand name on it.
It did seem to work.
Patty
|
|