vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 14, 2022 0:40:46 GMT -5
So I got to wondering, what does everyone think the best final polish is for rocks, for both rotary and vibe tumbling?
Micro Alumina Polish Tin Oxide Polish Cerium Oxide Polish SUPER Cerium Oxide Polish Raybrite A Polish Alumina Powder A Polish Chrome-Oxide Polish Tripoli Powder Optical grade Cerium Oxide Polish Red Rouge ZIRCONIUM OXIDE
Or some other polish I missed.
What do yall think?
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Post by As I in does tries! on Dec 14, 2022 2:37:41 GMT -5
Greetings Vance, it depends on the rock you are trying to polish as not all rocks will polish to a high deep shine, but if you were doing rocks in the the regular Quartz and Chalcedony (Agate) or other rocks in the hardness range of Moh's 5 -7 any of the following would work.
Aluminum Oxide cerium Oxide Tin Oxide UK Pumice powder UK Zinc Oxide
The problems appear when you try to polish rocks outside the Moh's 5-7 range, also rocks that contain a chemical composition similar to a polish will not shine (a silk finish at best).
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 386
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Post by waterboysh on Dec 15, 2022 10:26:20 GMT -5
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 16, 2022 1:16:47 GMT -5
Yep, read it, I was just curious what everyone personally thought was the best for polish, and bonus question where to I find the super fine AO? Like 14,000 grit Plus AO for example?
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Dec 16, 2022 11:42:41 GMT -5
Yep, read it, I was just curious what everyone personally thought was the best for polish, and bonus question where to I find the super fine AO? Like 14,000 grit Plus AO for example? i believe rapid polish #61 is .3 microns which is (according to goggle) 60,000 grit. (linde a polish i believe is similar but is a bit pricier). i have recently tried some rapid over the rock shed polish that i normally use but for whatever reason, this batch was as shiny coming out of 500 as some have, finishing polish (?!!!) so i'm not sure it's fair to say the rapid polish gave me a significantly better shine. the vibra-dry polish says it's 14,000 though they say that's for dry polishing, iirc? eta - i bought a pound of rapid #61 on amazon. using it in a vibe, 1/2 tsp at a time, a pound was plenty to try out. seemed pricey at around $25 (sh included) ... i priced some at $15/pound from stone age industries, but once i calculated shipping for my order, the price pretty much doubled so the price from twin pines trading post on amazon wasn't THAT bad. (lord, shipping has really gone up since the last time i ordered grit)
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 16, 2022 13:33:28 GMT -5
Rapid #61 is awesome A/O for sure but I rarely NEED to use it. The rock shed A/O for the price can't be beat IMHO and that is what I use 99% of the time. Honestly in other tumblers the Rapid #61 may be easier to see an advantage but in the Lot-o I never see that. Just as an example these are are dry and this picture was taken after the 500 grit A/O stage in my lot-o. No 1000 stage and no polish stage yet. Not every brand of tumbler can accomplish that. So tumbler type and polish type kind of go hand in hand. These are already pretty amazing but they are back in the barrel now with rockshed AO polish. As for the rest of your list most of those are used more in cabbing than tumbling. Cerium is the only that stands out as a candidate for rotary tumbling obsidian. Obsidian in a vibe is still A/O. Chuck
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Dec 16, 2022 14:45:23 GMT -5
Rapid #61 is awesome A/O for sure but I rarely NEED to use it. Yes, I couldn't help but try it out. Bought it to try on some softer stuff. And just so happened most of my batch this time was very shiny (I mean not quite as shiny at yours!) coming out of 500.) Also is that carnelian? It is GORGEOUS!
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 16, 2022 16:36:04 GMT -5
Rapid #61 is awesome A/O for sure but I rarely NEED to use it. The rock shed A/O for the price can't be beat IMHO and that is what I use 99% of the time. Honestly in other tumblers the Rapid #61 may be easier to see an advantage but in the Lot-o I never see that. Just as an example these are are dry and this picture was taken after the 500 grit A/O stage in my lot-o. No 1000 stage and no polish stage yet. Not every brand of tumbler can accomplish that. So tumbler type and polish type kind of go hand in hand. These are already pretty amazing but they are back in the barrel now with rockshed AO polish. As for the rest of your list most of those are used more in cabbing than tumbling. Cerium is the only that stands out as a candidate for rotary tumbling obsidian. Obsidian in a vibe is still A/O. Chuck I think I might give Kingsly north Micro Alumia a try, I have no problem with it being Aluminum Oxide, but Rock shed kinda confuses me on their polish, They say "At 2 micron and finer, this polish is likely somewhere around an 8000 grit" on their website, but yet when I look up a conversion chart for 2 micron to grit it says 3 micron is 8000 grit, 2.5 is 9000 and 1.5 is 13000 grit, so 2 micron would be somehwere between 9000 and 13000 and im not sure if thats a typo on the 2 micron or if the chart I found is wrong, which it shouldnt be considering its from IGS(International Gem Society). But then there is the issue with Micro Alumina as it is not a graded polish, they say its "1-3 micron particle size" so its basically 8000/14000 grit. Kinda wish I could find a reasonable priced supplier for graded 30000 grit AO lol Here is the chart I found. www.gemsociety.org/article/gem-cutting-abrasives-grit-mesh-microns/
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
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Post by stefan on Dec 16, 2022 16:51:05 GMT -5
I just got some of the Kingsley North Micro. I won't be able to try it for 2 more weeks because both my polish barrels are currently running.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 16, 2022 19:53:02 GMT -5
I just got some of the Kingsley North Micro. I won't be able to try it for 2 more weeks because both my polish barrels are currently running. Let me know how it works out for you.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 16, 2022 20:03:01 GMT -5
Anyone got experience with Raybrite A Polish? How much would I use in a 4lb barrel? How well does it work? It looks like its the most reasonable priced of the sub micron polishes at least on kingsly north anyway.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 16, 2022 20:47:57 GMT -5
A lot of talk about numbers. Do not get too caught up in micron size thinking that is the do all end all in getting shiny rocks. All of the prior steps will always be more important then the actual polish used. Your original post said "best polish for rotary and vibe". Those are too completely different answers when it comes to the polish stage. A rotary is a nice gentle roll whereas a vibe is a pretty darn violent and aggressive movement. The rotary does not break down polish anywhere nearly as effective as a vibe. In the vibe tumbler 8,000 becomes 16,000 after 24 hours and then becomes 32,000 after 48 hours. The amount of shine a rock is going to take is not limitless. On the rotary side I am not sure going from lets say 1,200 A/O all the way to lets say 30,000 would produce a good finish. Might still need a 8,000 to 14,000 step in between because the rotary does not break down the same. In a rotary going from 1,200 straight to 30,000 would be like sanding a piece of wood with 100 grit then jumping to 1,000 grit to try to remove those scratches.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 16, 2022 21:36:01 GMT -5
A lot of talk about numbers. Do not get too caught up in micron size thinking that is the do all end all in getting shiny rocks. All of the prior steps will always be more important then the actual polish used. Your original post said "best polish for rotary and vibe". Those are too completely different answers when it comes to the polish stage. A rotary is a nice gentle roll whereas a vibe is a pretty darn violent and aggressive movement. The rotary does not break down polish anywhere nearly as effective as a vibe. In the vibe tumbler 8,000 becomes 16,000 after 24 hours and then becomes 32,000 after 48 hours. The amount of shine a rock is going to take is not limitless. On the rotary side I am not sure going from lets say 1,200 A/O all the way to lets say 30,000 would produce a good finish. Might still need a 8,000 to 14,000 step in between because the rotary does not break down the same. In a rotary going from 1,200 straight to 30,000 would be like sanding a piece of wood with 100 grit then jumping to 1,000 grit to try to remove those scratches. How do you think going from 1000AO after 7 days in a 4lb rotary to say 14,000 polish would work? Also what works better for polishing softer rocks in a rotary such as Obsidian or Opal? They dont seem to take a shine with 8000 from what I have saw with the green opals I bought.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 16, 2022 21:53:59 GMT -5
A lot of talk about numbers. Do not get too caught up in micron size thinking that is the do all end all in getting shiny rocks. All of the prior steps will always be more important then the actual polish used. Your original post said "best polish for rotary and vibe". Those are too completely different answers when it comes to the polish stage. A rotary is a nice gentle roll whereas a vibe is a pretty darn violent and aggressive movement. The rotary does not break down polish anywhere nearly as effective as a vibe. In the vibe tumbler 8,000 becomes 16,000 after 24 hours and then becomes 32,000 after 48 hours. The amount of shine a rock is going to take is not limitless. On the rotary side I am not sure going from lets say 1,200 A/O all the way to lets say 30,000 would produce a good finish. Might still need a 8,000 to 14,000 step in between because the rotary does not break down the same. In a rotary going from 1,200 straight to 30,000 would be like sanding a piece of wood with 100 grit then jumping to 1,000 grit to try to remove those scratches. How do you think going from 1000AO after 7 days in a 4lb rotary to say 14,000 polish would work? Also what works better for polishing softer rocks in a rotary such as Obsidian or Opal? They dont seem to take a shine with 8000 from what I have saw with the green opals I bought. Cant help with green opal but with soft stones the process is more important than the polish. Right amount of cushion, right type of cushion maybe dry tumble instead of wet etc .... For obsidian I obviously always use the lot-o because that is the easy, fast cheap way. For a challenge though this year I tried to replicate my lot-o finish on obsidian and came really close. Took an unbelievable amount of time. Final polish stage was cerium oxide. After stage one was complete these spent another 90 days total in the following stages. Now I can say I did and I can say I'll never do it again. 100% rotary in a 3LB lortone Chuck
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 17, 2022 5:11:20 GMT -5
How do you think going from 1000AO after 7 days in a 4lb rotary to say 14,000 polish would work? Also what works better for polishing softer rocks in a rotary such as Obsidian or Opal? They dont seem to take a shine with 8000 from what I have saw with the green opals I bought. Cant help with green opal but with soft stones the process is more important than the polish. Right amount of cushion, right type of cushion maybe dry tumble instead of wet etc .... For obsidian I obviously always use the lot-o because that is the easy, fast cheap way. For a challenge though this year I tried to replicate my lot-o finish on obsidian and came really close. Took an unbelievable amount of time. Final polish stage was cerium oxide. After stage one was complete these spent another 90 days total in the following stages. Now I can say I did and I can say I'll never do it again. 100% rotary in a 3LB lortone Chuck What were your stages and estimated times for this obsidian? Looks Awesome man!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 17, 2022 9:00:55 GMT -5
Cant help with green opal but with soft stones the process is more important than the polish. Right amount of cushion, right type of cushion maybe dry tumble instead of wet etc .... For obsidian I obviously always use the lot-o because that is the easy, fast cheap way. For a challenge though this year I tried to replicate my lot-o finish on obsidian and came really close. Took an unbelievable amount of time. Final polish stage was cerium oxide. After stage one was complete these spent another 90 days total in the following stages. Now I can say I did and I can say I'll never do it again. 100% rotary in a 3LB lortone Chuck What were your stages and estimated times for this obsidian? Looks Awesome man! I don't remember all the details and had not written anything down. I was not expecting these results and never thought anyone would be crazy enough to spend 90+ days trying to replicate 8 days of vibe tumbling. Keep in mind with 50 percent filler that is a lot of time and grits for maybe 1.5 pounds of obsidian. Stage 2 was 120/220 SC (guessing 10 days), Stage 3 was 500 A/O (guessing 3 weeks), Stage 4 was 1000 A/O (guessing 2 weeks) and stage 5 was cerium oxide polish for about 4 weeks. borax burnish but probably only 12-24 hours for that. Chuck
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hoolligan1938
spending too much on rocks
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Post by hoolligan1938 on Dec 17, 2022 11:12:25 GMT -5
vance71975 - You asked about "raybrite" polish from Kingsley North. I've used it and their "alumina" polish. I think the Alumina does a better job. Just my opinion. The Raybrite does OK but I don't think it's quite as shiney as the alumina. That was on two loads done seperatly of similar stones.
Jim
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ataraktos
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 140
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Post by ataraktos on Dec 17, 2022 11:14:48 GMT -5
vance71975 - was just noticing that the Scot Wilkins youtube channel, this week, has a direct cerium, alum, tin polish comparison. seems he uses a different grit sequence than many (never changes to ao grit until polish) but does do the popular rotary for coarse, then over to a vibe. have to say, rocks were NOT a candidate for skipping the polish step but maybe that is a better comparison for the polishes themselves. i believe he uses the Kingsley ao too. (Anyway, my most interesting take-away was the little reflection gadget thing he used to judge!) tin or cerium might've had a slight edge on a couple of rocks but definitely not worth the price difference ... and giving his Ao an extra day might've made a lot of difference too. (not to mention, getting more shine, going into polish). i just checked through crystal wisdom shannon's youtube rock-tumbling videos and didn't see any opals but she does have an all rotary (iirc) step by step for obsidian. (though something was giving her so much trouble she bought a raytech vibe. that might've been sunstone, i can't remember. she tries a lot of difficult stuff, though, some good info on a variety of rocks.)
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 17, 2022 15:05:59 GMT -5
vance71975 - was just noticing that the Scot Wilkins youtube channel, this week, has a direct cerium, alum, tin polish comparison. seems he uses a different grit sequence than many (never changes to ao grit until polish) but does do the popular rotary for coarse, then over to a vibe. have to say, rocks were NOT a candidate for skipping the polish step but maybe that is a better comparison for the polishes themselves. i believe he uses the Kingsley ao too. (Anyway, my most interesting take-away was the little reflection gadget thing he used to judge!) tin or cerium might've had a slight edge on a couple of rocks but definitely not worth the price difference ... and giving his Ao an extra day might've made a lot of difference too. (not to mention, getting more shine, going into polish). i just checked through crystal wisdom shannon's youtube rock-tumbling videos and didn't see any opals but she does have an all rotary (iirc) step by step for obsidian. (though something was giving her so much trouble she bought a raytech vibe. that might've been sunstone, i can't remember. she tries a lot of difficult stuff, though, some good info on a variety of rocks.) I saw scot's video as well, kinda what spawned the question since there are so many more choices than just the three he did. I need to get a vibe at some point but just cant afford it at this point.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 17, 2022 15:08:04 GMT -5
What were your stages and estimated times for this obsidian? Looks Awesome man! I don't remember all the details and had not written anything down. I was not expecting these results and never thought anyone would be crazy enough to spend 90+ days trying to replicate 8 days of vibe tumbling. Keep in mind with 50 percent filler that is a lot of time and grits for maybe 1.5 pounds of obsidian. Stage 2 was 120/220 SC (guessing 10 days), Stage 3 was 500 A/O (guessing 3 weeks), Stage 4 was 1000 A/O (guessing 2 weeks) and stage 5 was cerium oxide polish for about 4 weeks. borax burnish but probably only 12-24 hours for that. Chuck well, I am only slightly crazy, but its more that I simply can not afford a vibe tumbler right now lol
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