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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 2, 2023 23:17:29 GMT -5
I recently picked up five pounds of Batcave...which turned out to be about 1.5 pounds of Jasper and 3.5 pounds of matrix! LOL This material is very finicky when it comes to processing the slabs. Ideally you want even layers in the slab...but when the rough undulates, it make it way more difficult to get flat layers in slabs. I did get some, but these are from the oddball slabs as I'm saving the best stuff for later! LOL - This is only the second time I've worked a batch of Batcave Jasper. I actually like every one of these cabs. I think they're great examples of Batcave Jasper. I'm going to start another thread to discuss what parameters people use to define Designer Cabochons.
The last pictures show the very odd characteristic of this material. It actually retains water. They're not the best pics, but I was trying to get my phone to focus. There's actually a mirror polish off the 3000 wheel in those last pics...but look at how the water is drying out UNDER the surface. The cab is wiped dry in those pics! As always, thanks for taking a gander!  |
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agatewhisperer
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since May 2020
Posts: 836
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Post by agatewhisperer on Feb 3, 2023 0:51:52 GMT -5
That's pretty wild about the water. Didn't expect that especially with such a high polish, but then again I don't know anything about the material 🤪. Pretty nice finish on those, looking good!
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 3, 2023 2:02:51 GMT -5
That's pretty wild about the water. Didn't expect that especially with such a high polish, but then again I don't know anything about the material 🤪. Pretty nice finish on those, looking good! Thanks Alex! Yeah...the water retention really threw me for a loop the first time I worked it. This time I made sure the cab was completely devoid of water before I took it to the 14K diamond paste. |
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Post by fernwood on Feb 3, 2023 4:23:41 GMT -5
Nice cabs. What is the hardness of Batcave?
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adrian65
Cave Dweller 
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
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Post by adrian65 on Feb 3, 2023 5:53:40 GMT -5
Beautiful cabs! Amazing polish and the shapes are, as always, so smooth and elegant. The pattern and colors reminds somehow the Bruneau.
Adrian
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 3, 2023 7:34:09 GMT -5
I'm with adrian65, it does remind me a lot of Bruno. It's really amazing no matter what a PITA it is to cab. It looks to be worthwhile. I've got one in my queue for my next shot at Gene. I'll be mindful of it's strange water habits. Thanks! |
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 3, 2023 9:16:46 GMT -5
Very cool! Another jasper type I've not heard of - interesting. Your cabs are always so pretty, no matter the material - the shine on these is out of this world. I really like the darker colors - looks like a Japanese-style mountain in there. Curious about the origin of Batcave jasper - off to research!
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 3, 2023 9:41:33 GMT -5
Those are all fabulous, Jason! I really like the first one and that dark one.
I have never cut Batcave. I might need to poke around and see if I can find some to experiment with.
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 3, 2023 9:55:28 GMT -5
Nice cabs. What is the hardness of Batcave? Thanks Beth! I just Googled "Batcave Jasper Mohs Scale"...and my thread from May. 2022 is the second link that pops up! LOL - One site says it's 6.5-7 hardness. But it depends on what color layer you're in. The lighter stuff seems to be softer than the really dark pieces. In May, the lighter colored areas were SUPER soft. This time, with this batch, the lighter areas were definitely harder...but not as seemingly hard as that last cab pictured. Beautiful cabs! Amazing polish and the shapes are, as always, so smooth and elegant. The pattern and colors reminds somehow the Bruneau. Adrian Thank you Adrian! Funny you mention Bruneau! When I was finishing up the polish on one of these, I was thinking how it really looked a lot like Bruneau...and polished like Bruneau! I'm with adrian65 , it does remind me a lot of Bruno. It's really amazing no matter what a PITA it is to cab. It looks to be worthwhile. I've got one in my queue for my next shot at Gene. I'll be mindful of it's strange water habits. Thanks! Thanks Tela! I should have clarified when I replied to Alex ( agatewhisperer ) the water retention only seems to happen in the lighter brown areas...not the dark brown. I really don't know if it made a difference, but I made sure the cab was back to "normal" color - meaning it was dry - before I hit the diamond paste. Very cool! Another jasper type I've not heard of - interesting. Your cabs are always so pretty, no matter the material - the shine on these is out of this world. I really like the darker colors - looks like a Japanese-style mountain in there. Curious about the origin of Batcave jasper - off to research! Thank you Peta! I could post a picture of an Obsidian cab that was a disaster if it makes you feel better! LOL - I see the "mountain" of which you speak! Batcave Jasper aka Rim Jasper (I think there's a slight difference between them...but they get lumped together) is out of Oregon. There's some good threads on the forum about the "wheres" and "whats"... Those are all fabulous, Jason! I really like the first one and that dark one. I have never cut Batcave. I might need to poke around and see if I can find some to experiment with. Thanks Robin! I was stoked when I saw the black lines coming out in that last one as it was getting domed. I saw a "streak" of black, but there was no pattern until I got down into the cab. I hope you have some! I think it's a fun material to work. When the layers aren't "even" in the slab, there's a lot of guesswork as to positioning of the shape to get a decent pattern. If the layers are all even, then it's just a matter of determining the dome height to get the most out of what layers are there... |
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Post by fernwood on Feb 3, 2023 10:16:30 GMT -5
jasoninsd I am thinking this may be one of the materials that does not have a norm for hardness. When you think about the composition and variables related to that. My understanding is that this is jasper formed partially from the feces of bats. If so, a lot of factors come into play, including diet, weather conditions, minerals in the cave, moisture levels, etc. I was intrigued when you said that there was some moisture under the polish. I wonder if 1dave could provide any further geological info, if he is well enough to respond.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 3, 2023 10:20:28 GMT -5
haha jasoninsd - you are too funny. I know I'll get there some day..perseverance always pays off (or so I'm told)... |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,498
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Post by realrockhound on Feb 3, 2023 10:29:49 GMT -5
The stuff with the moss/plume in it is pretty cool stuff. I think I’ve mentioned before, I got some that has the the plume that actually runs into the soft tan layer. Materials wild for sure.
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Post by 1dave on Feb 3, 2023 11:59:07 GMT -5
 Thanks Beth and Jason for helping me find the good threads! "Simple SiO2" is AMA-ZING-LY complicated! Especially with water.  Water is held together by weak hydrogen or pi bonds, easily breaks apart - "ionizes," while Quartz is held together by strong multiple lattice covalent bonds.  Very Low (acid) and Very High (base) pH will eat the flesh off your bones.
Acid will dissolve calcite and similar elements, but base will force them to be deposited.
On the other hand, Base will dissolve a little silica, while acid forces silica to be deposited.
Even in very high pH, SiO2 is not very soluble. Why low solubility? Because silicon atoms are larger than carbon atoms, silicon-oxygen bonds are longer than C02 carbon-oxygen equivalents. The p orbitals on silicon and oxygen cannot overlap enough to form weak pi bonds. Therefore, only single strong covalent bonds are formed. So each silicon atom forms four single covalent bonds with four oxygen atoms, and each oxygen atom forms two single covalent bonds with two silicon atoms. With each of the silicon atoms bridged to its four neighbors via an oxygen atom also attached to the neighbor silicon atoms, this forms a large network covalent structure. Strong bonds in three dimensions make silicon dioxide a hard, high melting point solid with a structure similar to that of diamonds. The bond energy is estimated at 621.7 kJ/mol. To top it off, MOST SUBSTANCES ARE HYDROPHILIC (water loving), while SiO2 in most forms is HYDROPHOBIC! That is, they have H- or OH- negative surfaces that repel negative H2O. Where do those occasional huge amounts of silica in solution come from? That answer came from JOHN ELLISTON in Australia! Shock waves shatter rocks - AND SILICA BONDS! Ground water ionizes, grabs those newly freed Si bonds, become rivers of Si-H or Si-OH fibers and start filling in voids. Agate is made. There you have it. Most Agate layers were formed back when earth had it’s worst shocks, the dying times! Agate is periodically a sedimentary rock ! NOTE: Normally in different high pH locations Alkaline and Alkaline Earth elements are deposited and replaced in the groundwater with only minor amounts of silica. Much of New Agate is held together by weak hydrogen bonds! As the agate dries the water evaporates and the hydrogen bonds are replaced as Si and O make new strong connections! This is why the heat treatment hardens flint for napping. 
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 3, 2023 12:27:50 GMT -5
fernwood 's comment made me wonder AGAIN if Bat Cave jasper has anything to do with guano. I have have always heard that was a myth. Does anyone know for sure?
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Post by fernwood on Feb 3, 2023 12:29:02 GMT -5
1dave. Thanks for posting this. Your knowledge is amazing.
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,498
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Post by realrockhound on Feb 3, 2023 15:07:48 GMT -5
fernwood 's comment made me wonder AGAIN if Bat Cave jasper has anything to do with guano. I have have always heard that was a myth. Does anyone know for sure? It’s a myth. Where it’s located tells me it was all sediment that was washed over by silicated water or something. There are spots all around the base and through the draw where there is still batcave material that formed on the open faces of rocks and not specifically in caves. My new discovery was in an underground vug that no bats we’re getting into either. So kinda disproves the bat guano theory. Here’s a link to the trip report of the area. For those that haven’t seen. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/99070/cave-jasper-site-crook-county |
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Post by susand24224 on Feb 3, 2023 15:15:13 GMT -5
Nice cabs--I *really* like the orientation you made to the patterns. Sounds like quite an interesting experience as well!
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 3, 2023 17:14:45 GMT -5
jasoninsd I am thinking this may be one of the materials that does not have a norm for hardness. When you think about the composition and variables related to that. My understanding is that this is jasper formed partially from the feces of bats. If so, a lot of factors come into play, including diet, weather conditions, minerals in the cave, moisture levels, etc. I was intrigued when you said that there was some moisture under the polish. I wonder if 1dave could provide any further geological info, if he is well enough to respond. Thanks for bringing up both of these queries Beth! *Answers are below!  haha jasoninsd - you are too funny. I know I'll get there some day..perseverance always pays off (or so I'm told)... Is persistence the same as perseverance...because I'm often told I'm a persistent little sh!t! LOL The stuff with the moss/plume in it is pretty cool stuff. I think I’ve mentioned before, I got some that has the the plume that actually runs into the soft tan layer. Materials wild for sure. Thank you my friend! I was hoping someone was going to see the moss/plume areas! I made that cab WAY bigger than I really wanted to...well...way bigger than my normal size because of the two areas top and bottom. I wanted to make sure those both stayed in the cab! fernwood 's comment made me wonder AGAIN if Bat Cave jasper has anything to do with guano. I have have always heard that was a myth. Does anyone know for sure? Did you see the comment from realrockhound? 1dave . Thanks for posting this. Your knowledge is amazing. I'll second this 1dave! I really do appreciate you being willing to edumacate us!! fernwood 's comment made me wonder AGAIN if Bat Cave jasper has anything to do with guano. I have have always heard that was a myth. Does anyone know for sure? It’s a myth. Where it’s located tells me it was all sediment that was washed over by silicated water or something. There are spots all around the base and through the draw where there is still batcave material that formed on the open faces of rocks and not specifically in caves. My new discovery was in an underground vug that no bats we’re getting into either. So kinda disproves the bat guano theory. Here’s a link to the trip report of the area. For those that haven’t seen. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/99070/cave-jasper-site-crook-countyThanks for confirming this! It wasn't making sense to me as the jasper was formed SO long ago, I couldn't see it being formed in an actual bat cave at the time in which it was actually "brewing"! Nice cabs--I *really* like the orientation you made to the patterns. Sounds like quite an interesting experience as well! Thanks Susan! Well...the "orientation" of the pattern only happened because of the doming. As the cab gets domed, the layers are exposed however much the angle of the dome will allow. I had to mess around with the dome heights on these in order to get the pattern to emerge like I wanted. I started with a higher dome...but I didn't see enough pattern emerging. So, I kept doming lower and lower until I was satisfied with where it was at. It's kinda fun really. This is one of the reasons to try and cut the slabs so the layers are all even throughout the slab. I do have some pieces where I was able to achieve this. A couple of the slabs these pieces came had "undulations" in the layers...so I couldn't really get a "bullseye" type of effect with the patterns. Hopefully when I get to the better slabs I'll get some better patterning. |
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Post by 1dave on Feb 3, 2023 20:55:51 GMT -5
Gander Why is Gander slang for look? Definition of take a gander at Look at, glance at, as in Will you take a gander at that woman's red hair! This slangy idiom, dating from the early 1900s, presumably came from the verb gander, meaning “stretch one's neck to see,” possibly alluding to the long neck of the male goose. For a synonym, see take a look at. bramblewoodhill.com/gender-goose-geese/  |
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 3, 2023 21:11:01 GMT -5
Gander Why is Gander slang for look? Definition of take a gander at Look at, glance at, as in Will you take a gander at that woman's red hair! This slangy idiom, dating from the early 1900s, presumably came from the verb gander, meaning “stretch one's neck to see,” possibly alluding to the long neck of the male goose. For a synonym, see take a look at. bramblewoodhill.com/gender-goose-geese/It actually took me about a half-second to realize why you posted this! LOL |
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Thanks Beth and Jason for helping me find the good threads!
