jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
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Post by jamesp on Jun 18, 2024 10:00:45 GMT -5
Man was given dominion over the earth. Who judges who takes what and how much is he allowed to collect ? 5 pounds 10 pounds 1000 pounds The government always gets involved when citizens make money on any collected item from government property. Driftwood, rare plants, minerals, furs, animals and the list goes on. Chinese fisherman are raping the ocean on an international scale reaping havoc on entire populations of fish. Who is going to police that bunch. Guessing there were no restrictions/regulations on collecting dino bone say 20 years ago. This map blows my eastern mind. The Nevada citizen appears imprisoned by his surroundings by the restrictions the government might place on collecting rocks on BLM in Nevada.  |
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Jun 18, 2024 10:25:25 GMT -5
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Post by miket on Jun 18, 2024 11:47:35 GMT -5
So technically I'm not allowed to collect any Fairburns, jasper, petrified wood or agates, then cab, wrap and sell them for profit, in any amount...
Because the government says so.
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Post by parfive on Jun 18, 2024 11:51:58 GMT -5
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
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Post by jamesp on Jun 18, 2024 13:02:15 GMT -5
Tell it ThomasT. Tell it miketTell it parfive. Even mushrooms, a fungus. The gov't is the fungus among us. |
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Jun 18, 2024 14:06:16 GMT -5
Several years ago, at a rock show, I saw a guy get arrested, handcuffed and hauled off from his booth in front of a large crowd for offering to sell to the wrong guy a small piece of petrified wood obtained from public land.
When they arrested him, they would not even let him cover up his tables. Not a pretty sight.
He did not have a permit for commercial collecting of materials from public lands.
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Post by miket on Jun 18, 2024 16:06:33 GMT -5
Several years ago, at a rock show, I saw a guy get arrested, handcuffed and hauled off from his booth in front of a large crowd for offering to sell to the wrong guy a small piece of petrified wood obtained from public land. When they arrested him, they would not even let him cover up his tables. Not a pretty sight. He did not have a permit for commercial collecting of materials from public lands. That's crazy. Probably got hit with a hefty fine to boot. |
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Jun 18, 2024 16:37:08 GMT -5
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Post by Rockoonz on Jun 18, 2024 18:40:06 GMT -5
Yeah,
Collecting in the kings forest...
The folks who basically created the outlaws tell us that they need to control our lands because of the outlaws.
But if you're a giant Chinese corporation that wants to pit mine all of northern Nevada for lithium it's all good and fine...
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2024 18:41:54 GMT -5
Yeah, Collecting in the kings forest... The folks who basically created the outlaws tell us that they need to control our lands because of the outlaws. But if you're a giant Chinese corporation that wants to pit mine all of northern Nevada for lithium it's all good and fine... Funny how that works. |
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Jun 18, 2024 23:26:36 GMT -5
What if you purchased the materials and don’t know how or exactly where they were obtained originally? Are we supposed to know this and have documentation/proof of it before selling anything made from it?
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Jun 19, 2024 10:25:23 GMT -5
What if you purchased the materials and don’t know how or exactly where they were obtained originally? Are we supposed to know this and have documentation/proof of it before selling anything made from it? I would believe that keeping receipts of materials showing where purchased would provide some defense against potential criminal charges if the material was determined to have been illegally taken from public lands. |
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Post by HankRocks on Jun 19, 2024 12:27:37 GMT -5
What if you purchased the materials and don’t know how or exactly where they were obtained originally? Are we supposed to know this and have documentation/proof of it before selling anything made from it? I would believe that keeping receipts of materials showing where purchased would provide some defense against potential criminal charges if the material was determined to have been illegally taken from public lands. It seems that there are several problems here. The material in question could have been collected years ago before the rules were enacted. Or it could have been collected on private land that is in the area. Or the material in question is not distinctive to a particular locale. Petrified wood for instance, I have seen a good bit of wood that is not unique enough to determine the exact locale. I suspect that the case of someone selling one piece of wood and getting handcuffed and hauled away was a case of more previous offenses coming into play. Maybe something like a claim owner reporting theft from his site and knowing who and directing authorities to the individual. Hard to say. |
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Jun 19, 2024 12:37:22 GMT -5
I would believe that keeping receipts of materials showing where purchased would provide some defense against potential criminal charges if the material was determined to have been illegally taken from public lands. It seems that there are several problems here. The material in question could have been collected years ago before the rules were enacted. Or it could have been collected on private land that is in the area. Or the material in question is not distinctive to a particular locale. Petrified wood for instance, I have seen a good bit of wood that is not unique enough to determine the exact locale. I suspect that the case of someone selling one piece of wood and getting handcuffed and hauled away was a case of more previous offenses coming into play. Maybe something like a claim owner reporting theft from his site and knowing who and directing authorities to the individual. Hard to say. It appeared, in this case, as if it were undercover agents perusing seller's wares at a rock show looking to stop some illegal trade activity. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Jun 19, 2024 13:36:37 GMT -5
You would think that the seller would have had to tell the undercover buyer that he personally collected it in a location that would make the sales a crime, innocent until proven guilty and all. Legally I should not have the burden to prove that I legally possessed the material, but if they arrest you will they just bury you in legal costs to get the case tossed out?
Personally I am careful that everything I sell is something I purchased, but there is no way I can absolutely guarantee how my supplier got it. If you ask me where I got it I will tell you I bought it. While we are in the NW I will be buying stuff from the estate of a friend who died, probably including beautiful polished slabs that will have no provenance as to where they were collected. If I sell some am I a criminal?
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Jun 19, 2024 14:37:50 GMT -5
I think the agents were only part of an effort to stop illicit trade of materials stolen from the citizens of the United States.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Jun 19, 2024 16:01:59 GMT -5
I imagine the agent got the guy telling stories and he likely readily admitted to collecting on public land and that’s all the agent needed to make an arrest. Still, it’s a scary scenario. Many of us have estates of old stock materials from old rockhounds. I know personally of a few materials I have that came from areas before they were closed to the public. Other materials, I have no idea of exact locale, blm land or otherwise. I don’t know how blm property lines have changed over the decades. I can’t even prove that this material was collected decades ago and not by me. Are we coming into a time of such governmental overreach where we can’t even inherit or purchase an estate, and then sell slabs, cabs, or jewelry from those materials without worrying about being hassled by the federal government?
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,818 
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Post by Mark K on Jun 19, 2024 16:09:16 GMT -5
When is the government going to decide that it owns the air we breathe?
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Post by 1dave on Jun 21, 2024 10:56:09 GMT -5
Most areas allow 25 pounds per day. Will we be arrested for that 26th pound?
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Jun 21, 2024 13:32:33 GMT -5
Most areas allow 25 pounds per day. Will we be arrested for that 26th pound? Probably not, depending upon if that 26th pound is collected before or after 12:00AM  Or maybe if the dog picked it up... |
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