rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Jan 18, 2024 10:43:08 GMT -5
Hi all - By chance would someone be able to post a picture of their cab-in-progress before they move onto the 280 soft? I'm still having crazy struggles with deep scratches which is really causing me major frustration and I'm finding I'm not enjoying cabbing because of it. I'm wondering if I'm trying to do too much shaping on the 220 diamond, which in turn is creating deeper scratches. Should I have a rough (maybe even somewhat angular) shape coming off the 220 and letting the 280 soft do the shaping? Thanks so much.
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller 
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Jan 18, 2024 11:06:05 GMT -5
Should be damn near perfectly domed before coming off the 220
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 18, 2024 11:10:21 GMT -5
Speaking for myself alone- I do all of my shaping on the 80 (in my case a 60 sintered). When I get to the 220 hard, I am only removing 80 grit scratches. I use a light touch and just make sure I go over the cab completely. I never really change the shape.
eta I'm sorry you are having such a frustrating time. Don't give up.  |
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Jan 18, 2024 12:03:10 GMT -5
Should be damn near perfectly domed before coming off the 220 Dang. Ok. I will keep on truckin'. Not sure why I'm having so much trouble. i am not pressing hard, at least I don't think I am. I've run montana agates over the wheels to catch any loose/jutting diamonds. Maybe I need to find a lapidary club near me that can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I hate that I;m becoming so jaded with this. I want to love it lol...Thank you! Speaking for myself alone- I do all of my shaping on the 80 (in my case a 60 sintered). When I get to the 220 hard, I am only removing 80 grit scratches. I use a light touch and just make sure I go over the cab completely. I never really change the shape.
eta I'm sorry you are having such a frustrating time. Don't give up. Ahh...ok - darn. Thank you! I will keep on trying. I have a lovely maury mountain plume that I'm trying to work but there are so many scratches I can't get it past the 280!!! Ugh. |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Jan 18, 2024 12:20:37 GMT -5
If you are indeed getting everything out from the 80 with the 220, Just spend more time on the 280 until those scratches are gone. You’re going to have to play around with it. People can give you advice, but its ultimately up to you to mess around until you figure it out. All material cuts different and adjustments in your end will have to be made. Who knows, maybe your 220 is more aggressive than my 220. So more work will need to be done on the 280🤷
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stefan
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Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Jan 18, 2024 12:30:25 GMT -5
I was in the same boat as you. Very frustrating to be sure. No matter how many times I went back to the hard wheel (220) I would end up with those deep scratches off the 280 soft. I felt that I was going to wear out the 280 before I got a single cab off it. Then I tried something different (got the idea form here). After 220 hard, I put on my 600 hard lap plate and went over everything. WOW what a difference. Then I went to the 280 soft and just like that all those deep scratches are gone! I used to have to work the 280 wheel through several cycles of grind and dry grind and dry. Now I grind, check the cabs, mark (with a lead pencil) the spots that need a touch-up, and onward. Very rarely do I need to hit the wheel a 3rd time. I got the 600 lap off Amazon (600, 800, 1200, 3000) for like $30.
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iamchris
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2023
Posts: 722
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Post by iamchris on Jan 18, 2024 13:02:50 GMT -5
Dang, I'm glad you asked the question, rocknewb101! It appears I'm doing it wrong based on the answers here. I'd spend most of my time on 280 soft to refine the shape because I had the same struggles with the hard wheels. |
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Jan 18, 2024 13:19:06 GMT -5
If you are indeed getting everything out from the 80 with the 220, Just spend more time on the 280 until those scratches are gone. You’re going to have to play around with it. People can give you advice, but its ultimately up to you to mess around until you figure it out. All material cuts different and adjustments in your end will have to be made. Who knows, maybe your 220 is more aggressive than my 220. So more work will need to be done on the 280🤷 That's just it - I'm honestly not sure that I am...I feel like I come away with more scratches after the 220. I sat for 45 mins on the 280, after using a sharpie to identify the scratches and am still dealing with them. I try to not use the 80 wheel if I can get away with out (after initial shaping of preform) but some rocks are just too hard and need it. I'll keep trying - thank you. I was in the same boat as you. Very frustrating to be sure. No matter how many times I went back to the hard wheel (220) I would end up with those deep scratches off the 280 soft. I felt that I was going to wear out the 280 before I got a single cab off it. Then I tried something different (got the idea form here). After 220 hard, I put on my 600 hard lap plate and went over everything. WOW what a difference. Then I went to the 280 soft and just like that all those deep scratches are gone! I used to have to work the 280 wheel through several cycles of grind and dry grind and dry. Now I grind, check the cabs, mark (with a lead pencil) the spots that need a touch-up, and onward. Very rarely do I need to hit the wheel a 3rd time. I got the 600 lap off Amazon (600, 800, 1200, 3000) for like $30. Oh interesting! I do have the side lap on the cabbing machine - will have to see what grit it is, but it's definitely finer than the 220. Perhaps I'll try that with my Maury and see if that makes a difference. Thank you!! Dang, I'm glad you asked the question, rocknewb101 ! It appears I'm doing it wrong based on the answers here. I'd spend most of my time on 280 soft to refine the shape because I had the same struggles with the hard wheels. Well if it helps someone else then I'm glad I asked it also. I've been trying not to run here for every little thing, but this question has been bouncing around for a little while so figured I'd ask. Sometimes I feel like I'm on the 280 for 45-60 minutes and still didn't get them all out - which tells me they are too deep and I need to go back to 220, but then 220 just creates more. Ugh. Will get there...I have to lol...I just spent a crap ton on this machine and am determined to figure it out |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Jan 18, 2024 17:41:52 GMT -5
I feel like stefen had a good idea that might work. I don’t work off a lap so maybe it’s different between machines.
Here’s what you’re gonna do. Take a piece of crap agate you don’t care about. Dome it on the 80. Post pics at that stage. Then take it to the 220 dome it more, post pics. I would like to see first hand what it’s doing through the stages.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 18, 2024 17:57:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I think RRH has the right idea. Take some good pictures and post them.
One thing that helped me was to get a 220 soft after the 220 hard. But, also, when you are trying to get rid of scratches in the dome - try using circular motions around the scratch.
A lot of people have had a hard time with the 280. Don't get too discouraged. We're here to help.
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Jan 18, 2024 18:14:01 GMT -5
You mentioned that you feel like there is more scratches after the 220. Who knows, maybe your plates are labeled wrong. But regardless I’ll need to see the process to take a guess
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Jan 19, 2024 8:50:44 GMT -5
I feel like stefen had a good idea that might work. I don’t work off a lap so maybe it’s different between machines. Here’s what you’re gonna do. Take a piece of crap agate you don’t care about. Dome it on the 80. Post pics at that stage. Then take it to the 220 dome it more, post pics. I would like to see first hand what it’s doing through the stages. Oh that's a good idea! I will do that this weekend. Thanks!! Yeah, I think RRH has the right idea. Take some good pictures and post them.
One thing that helped me was to get a 220 soft after the 220 hard. But, also, when you are trying to get rid of scratches in the dome - try using circular motions around the scratch.
A lot of people have had a hard time with the 280. Don't get too discouraged. We're here to help.
Oh I didn't realize there was another soft. That might help. I'll try RRH's suggestion first before adding more expense. Thank you!!! You mentioned that you feel like there is more scratches after the 220. Who knows, maybe your plates are labeled wrong. But regardless I’ll need to see the process to take a guess the 220 does look finer than the 80 so I'm not sure - but I'll post pics as suggested. Thanks everyone! |
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Post by Starguy on Jan 19, 2024 13:04:41 GMT -5
It stinks that you’re still fighting the scratches. Your process sounds correct so it could still be a high diamond on a wheel, maybe 220. I would try running the Montana agate on the 220 again. Hard diamond wheels are pretty durable so it can be hard to get rid of the high abrasive. I use a hard agate or jasper that weighs a couple pounds to help dress new wheels. The weight of the rock helps. Run the agate on the wheel for a few minutes. I can imagine how frustrating it must be. Hang in there you’ll get it figured out. I agree that some dry surface photos might help us see exactly what you’re trying to overcome.
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Post by chris1956 on Jan 19, 2024 13:45:20 GMT -5
I like the idea from Starguy. What you might be able to do is to grind a portion of the agate down (without moving the agate horizontally) so that you have a smooth spot on the agate that matches the width of the wheel. Once you get it worn down, take a close look at the agate and see if you see any groove(s) from diamonds that might be sticking up. At least that might eliminate one thing that might be wrong. If you don't see any, I think I would take that smooth spot and see what happens if you try to grind it on the 280. Just my 2 cents worth. |
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RockDog
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2015
Posts: 23 
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Post by RockDog on Jan 19, 2024 14:16:58 GMT -5
I was having the exact same issue. I could get the scratches out, but it would take a long time. I recently ordered a 140 grit resin wheel and mounted it on an old Lortone arbor I picked up. I've started going to this before the 280. What a difference. So much easier and faster for me. I read about this idea somewhere and have been wanting to try it. Glad I did.
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Post by liveoak on Jan 20, 2024 7:33:30 GMT -5
The one other consideration is something I've seen, the finer you polish, the easier it is to see the scratches.
Not sure if that is whats going on, but I've had it happen more times than I want to talk about.
The only remedy is to really look for scratches with a magnifier coming off the hard wheels.
Something else to consider.
I believe the magnify light made me a better cabber.
Patty
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dshanpnw
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2020
Posts: 1,158
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Post by dshanpnw on Jan 20, 2024 8:25:55 GMT -5
You are not alone. I am working on an agate, I don't know what it is, right now that I am having that same problem with. I have worked Montana agates for hours over two days trying to work out scratches. I've tried several things, going back and forth from the 220 steel wheel to the 280 soft; from the 220 steel wheel to the 220 side lap softer disc. Sometimes I worry that my methods are not conventional lapidary standards at all and would be rejected by most, like really pressing against the edges of the wheels. One thing I do when I get really frustrated is stop, leave it alone and try again tomorrow, and usually I get it figured out. If nothing else works I just throw it in the tumbler.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Jan 20, 2024 10:52:37 GMT -5
It stinks that you’re still fighting the scratches. Your process sounds correct so it could still be a high diamond on a wheel, maybe 220. I would try running the Montana agate on the 220 again. Hard diamond wheels are pretty durable so it can be hard to get rid of the high abrasive. I use a hard agate or jasper that weighs a couple pounds to help dress new wheels. The weight of the rock helps. Run the agate on the wheel for a few minutes. I can imagine how frustrating it must be. Hang in there you’ll get it figured out. I agree that some dry surface photos might help us see exactly what you’re trying to overcome. Thank you - I'm wondering the same. I'm going to work on it today and see if I can't work that out. Will post pics of progress later today I like the idea from Starguy . What you might be able to do is to grind a portion of the agate down (without moving the agate horizontally) so that you have a smooth spot on the agate that matches the width of the wheel. Once you get it worn down, take a close look at the agate and see if you see any groove(s) from diamonds that might be sticking up. At least that might eliminate one thing that might be wrong. If you don't see any, I think I would take that smooth spot and see what happens if you try to grind it on the 280. Just my 2 cents worth. Thats a good idea! I tend to move the rock all around and don't think I"ve ever just kept it still. Will try this too. Thank you! I was having the exact same issue. I could get the scratches out, but it would take a long time. I recently ordered a 140 grit resin wheel and mounted it on an old Lortone arbor I picked up. I've started going to this before the 280. What a difference. So much easier and faster for me. I read about this idea somewhere and have been wanting to try it. Glad I did. The cabber has a flat lap on the side that is a finer grit than 220 (360 maybe? don't recall) and I will try this particular cab on it - hopefully that'll take out some of the deeper scratches before moving onto the 280. Thank you!! The one other consideration is something I've seen, the finer you polish, the easier it is to see the scratches. Not sure if that is whats going on, but I've had it happen more times than I want to talk about. The only remedy is to really look for scratches with a magnifier coming off the hard wheels. Something else to consider. I believe the magnify light made me a better cabber. Patty Yeah - I usually get to 600 and notice, but this time I can still see them off of 280 wheel. I use both an optivisor and lighted magnifying glass. My eyes are admittedly horrible up close so I need all the help I can get lol..I also did the sharpie trick, but this rock is darker so the black doesn't show as well. Thank you! You are not alone. I am working on an agate, I don't know what it is, right now that I am having that same problem with. I have worked Montana agates for hours over two days trying to work out scratches. I've tried several things, going back and forth from the 220 steel wheel to the 280 soft; from the 220 steel wheel to the 220 side lap softer disc. Sometimes I worry that my methods are not conventional lapidary standards at all and would be rejected by most, like really pressing against the edges of the wheels. One thing I do when I get really frustrated is stop, leave it alone and try again tomorrow, and usually I get it figured out. If nothing else works I just throw it in the tumbler. Thank you! Some days I feel so frustrated like why can't I get this...but I'm also super impatient and have to remind myself that it's a process and only practice makes perfect. I do for sure feel like I over use the 280 wheel and need to master the diamond wheels better. I think I'm afraid of them because I'm afraid I'll misshapen the cab...just gotta find my groove. As always thank you everyone for your comments and words - not only do they give me suggestions and thoughts to figure this out, but they give me motivation to not give up and to keep on trying. |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Jan 20, 2024 16:46:08 GMT -5
Here's a couple things that stick out to me. Could be the lighting playing an effect, but on this first pic, In the red circles, look at the depth of the big gouges, compared to the rest of it. The scratches are not uniform. This tells me there is potential for a rouge diamond on that plate leaving the deeper scratches. The second pic I posted is wet, but off the 80, look at the dry spots and notice how uniform the scratches are compared to whats going on with yours.   Now look at this second pic. You can still clearly see those deep gouges circled in red, compared to whats blue (uniform 220 scratches). This tells me you're not grinding enough off before going to 280 soft. You NEED to have uniform scratches across the entire dome, this is a must. Same material, different cab off the 220, you can see where the scratches are 220 unform, and where I marked I still need to get a few 80's out.   So here's my personal thoughts. Take a hard piece of jasper, hardest you got, press it firmly on your 80 grit and let it run the diameter for 30 seconds or so until you can dislodge the rouge diamond (if that is indeed whats going on with that disc). When you're doming, shoot for uniform scratches, if you're noticing deeper gouges, its indeed your 80 grit is jacked up somehow. On the 220, take your time until you can see uniform 220 scratches across the entire dome, if you accomplish this, by the time you go to the 280, the issue should be resolved. But from what i'm seeing, you're not getting all the scratches out before moving stages. Others: Please feel free to chime in and correct me if you think i'm wrong and any of my assumptions. Curious to see if any of you are seeing the same thing i'm seeing. |
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