rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 8, 2024 13:47:34 GMT -5
Good morning! I've been trying my 14" drop saw (currently water cooled) on some marcasite in agate and it is painfully slow with both the weights provided with the saw placed on the carriage from HP. I've been checking the blade and it's not hot to the touch when operating. My initial thought is that this must mean I need to apply more weight to the saw but I haven't tested this out yet. I've sharpened it using the "ping" method with a bastard file and it still feels rough to the touch but I think I'm lucky to get 1/2" cut in 8 minutes or so. This is my first full agate cut on this saw so I'm not sure how to proceed. Anyone have experience with this that could provide some insight?
- Rob
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rocknrob
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If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 11, 2024 11:07:33 GMT -5
I was able to ask HP about this and they suggested using oil to cut this material. I'm hesitant just because of the mess but they do sell coolant oil for a good price (cheaper with shipping than if I went to TSC to get their mineral oil). I just would need to level up my cooling system to make it work too. Has anyone had any notable experience with using water vs oil and speed of cutting. It doesn't have to be a drop saw like mine but there's got to be something behind this. I tried dressing my blade before cutting and it didn't really speed it up too much. Maybe I gotta whack the saw blade harder.
- Rob
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ThomasT
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Post by ThomasT on Jul 11, 2024 11:21:01 GMT -5
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realrockhound
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Post by realrockhound on Jul 11, 2024 11:37:12 GMT -5
From my experience, even using a brand new 14” HP slab saw oil cooled. The new HPs cut slower than snail slime across the arctic snow. However… with that… you actually don’t want your saws to cut super fast, this lab lead to issues. Yours might be cutting just fine at the appropriate speed and you’re just not aware. Hard for me to make a judgement without seeing it in action.
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 613
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 11, 2024 12:05:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the post, I did watch this (and the one with John). I think the thing that surprises me is that the blade is not hot to the touch at all. Perhaps it gets hot at the point of contact and that's where the glazing is happening but I would have assumed it would be like my trim saw and it would get warm on water. It is a lubrication issue? |
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 613
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 11, 2024 12:08:59 GMT -5
From my experience, even using a brand new 14” HP slab saw oil cooled. The new HPs cut slower than snail slime across the arctic snow. However… with that… you actually don’t want your saws to cut super fast, this lab lead to issues. Yours might be cutting just fine at the appropriate speed and you’re just not aware. Hard for me to make a judgement without seeing it in action. I think I'll re dress the blade one more time and give it a shot on some petrified wood, if the blade wasn't getting warm to the touch on the marcasite with water I don't see why it would have a glazing problem unless it's just warm at the point of contact and it's more of a lubrication issue. It might be the coffee not quite getting to the synapses but wouldn't lubrication work against the cutting process as abrasion is the name of the game here? - Rob |
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realrockhound
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Post by realrockhound on Jul 11, 2024 12:22:45 GMT -5
From my experience, even using a brand new 14” HP slab saw oil cooled. The new HPs cut slower than snail slime across the arctic snow. However… with that… you actually don’t want your saws to cut super fast, this lab lead to issues. Yours might be cutting just fine at the appropriate speed and you’re just not aware. Hard for me to make a judgement without seeing it in action. I think I'll re dress the blade one more time and give it a shot on some petrified wood, if the blade wasn't getting warm to the touch on the marcasite with water I don't see why it would have a glazing problem unless it's just warm at the point of contact and it's more of a lubrication issue. It might be the coffee not quite getting to the synapses but wouldn't lubrication work against the cutting process as abrasion is the name of the game here? - Rob I have no clue. Are you using the right blade? |
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Post by stardiamond on Jul 11, 2024 12:30:48 GMT -5
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ThomasT
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Post by ThomasT on Jul 11, 2024 12:58:56 GMT -5
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 613
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 11, 2024 13:00:20 GMT -5
I think I'll re dress the blade one more time and give it a shot on some petrified wood, if the blade wasn't getting warm to the touch on the marcasite with water I don't see why it would have a glazing problem unless it's just warm at the point of contact and it's more of a lubrication issue. It might be the coffee not quite getting to the synapses but wouldn't lubrication work against the cutting process as abrasion is the name of the game here? - Rob I have no clue. Are you using the right blade? It's the 14" agate eater blade that comes with the saw. It usually gets pretty good reviews. |
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 613
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 11, 2024 13:07:55 GMT -5
Mine didn't come with a pump but I covered what I ended up doing for it in another thread  . The reasons you bought this saw are the same reasons I got this saw. I keep hearing problems folks have with the power feed on slab saws and I thought, why not a drop saw? Let gravity do that job. The question I posted was during the HP auction last night and Sherman was on that time. He and Zeke really suggested oil for cutting super hard stuff and my experiences with water seem to fit that bill. The problem with HP is they seem to always be sellin' so I take most advice from them with a grain of salt. I know oil works better as a heat transference medium for cooling but I can say that Agate Eater blade does not get nearly as hot to the touch as my 10" trim saw (HP Thinline blade) does in water when it cuts agate. |
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ThomasT
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Post by ThomasT on Jul 11, 2024 15:18:48 GMT -5
That outfit (liked or not liked) has designed, built and repaired more lapidary equipment than most. It appears their overseas lapidary finishing company division has cut and polished way many more tons of rock than I have.
So, I tend to believe most of the equipment operating advice they give is intended to try and help their customers get the best performance out of the equipment.
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ThomasT
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Post by ThomasT on Jul 11, 2024 18:47:20 GMT -5
Wanting cut big hard rocks fast can be expensive.
The two best speeds I have found for cutting big hard rocks are... slow and slower.
You may be expecting to be able to cut faster than possible on that saw and putting too much pressure on the system.
I let the big slab saw do its work at his own pace... I just listen for any changes in the rhythm of the machine while I do something else.
I hope you get it figured out.
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 613
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 11, 2024 19:19:18 GMT -5
Wanting cut big hard rocks fast can be expensive. The two best speeds I have found for cutting big hard rocks are... slow and slower. You may be expecting to be able to cut faster than possible on that saw and putting too much pressure on the system. I let the big slab saw do its work at his own pace... I just listen for any changes in the rhythm of the machine while I do something else. I hope you get it figured out. I know I'm spoiled on working with wood before working on rock  . This hobby is teaching me patience even if I don't necessarily learn it, at least the first couple of times. |
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realrockhound
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Post by realrockhound on Jul 12, 2024 14:40:22 GMT -5
Depending on size of rock etc. some of my slab saws take around 15-20 min per cut.
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Post by chris1956 on Jul 12, 2024 15:52:05 GMT -5
Depending on size of rock etc. some of my slab saws take around 15-20 min per cut. I am in that same ballpark. I did some recent large cuts of amethyst and they took closer to half hour but it was at the limits of what I could cut with 16" blade. |
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realrockhound
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Post by realrockhound on Jul 12, 2024 16:02:20 GMT -5
Depending on size of rock etc. some of my slab saws take around 15-20 min per cut. I am in that same ballpark. I did some recent large cuts of amethyst and they took closer to half hour but it was at the limits of what I could cut with 16" blade. I’m not at homeboys house, so I can’t really say if it’s cutting slower than it should be, but it’s important to understand that cutting rocks ain’t like cutting a piece of wood. It takes a considerable amount of time to just get one cut. |
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Post by chris1956 on Jul 12, 2024 16:08:06 GMT -5
I am in that same ballpark. I did some recent large cuts of amethyst and they took closer to half hour but it was at the limits of what I could cut with 16" blade. I’m not at homeboys house, so I can’t really say if it’s cutting slower than it should be, but it’s important to understand that cutting rocks ain’t like cutting a piece of wood. It takes a considerable amount of time to just get one cut. I agree on the time it takes. I have to be in the right mood to cut rocks. It is not a time to be in a hurry! |
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 613
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Post by rocknrob on Jul 12, 2024 17:55:10 GMT -5
I am in that same ballpark. I did some recent large cuts of amethyst and they took closer to half hour but it was at the limits of what I could cut with 16" blade. I’m not at homeboys house, so I can’t really say if it’s cutting slower than it should be, but it’s important to understand that cutting rocks ain’t like cutting a piece of wood. It takes a considerable amount of time to just get one cut. If you were, we'd be outside on the deck talkin' rocks, enjoying the mid 70's weather, possibly drinking a cold beer and ageing while watching this drop saw cut agate. If you wanted to know the rate at which it cuts, I can tell you the chunk I'm cutting is approximately 4" x 3" (cutting on the 3" side through 4" of material). I didn't have the time to have it completely cut through but it did take roughly 12 minutes to make about 1/2 an inch of progress using the 14" agate eater blade that came with it. I'm using straight water at the moment but I was going to give some borax infused water a try next time I was out in the garage. - Rob |
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Post by broseph82 on Jul 14, 2024 20:42:39 GMT -5
I was able to ask HP about this and they suggested using oil to cut this material. I'm hesitant just because of the mess but they do sell coolant oil for a good price (cheaper with shipping than if I went to TSC to get their mineral oil). I just would need to level up my cooling system to make it work too. Has anyone had any notable experience with using water vs oil and speed of cutting. It doesn't have to be a drop saw like mine but there's got to be something behind this. I tried dressing my blade before cutting and it didn't really speed it up too much. Maybe I gotta whack the saw blade harder. - Rob Once you ruin a blade or two from using water you might change your mind. I know I did. Getting messy is just part of lapidary. Wear gloves and a plastic smock and the mess won’t be too much on you. |
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. The reasons you bought this saw are the same reasons I got this saw. I keep hearing problems folks have with the power feed on slab saws and I thought, why not a drop saw? Let gravity do that job. The question I posted was during the HP auction last night and Sherman was on that time. He and Zeke really suggested oil for cutting super hard stuff and my experiences with water seem to fit that bill. The problem with HP is they seem to always be sellin' so I take most advice from them with a grain of salt. I know oil works better as a heat transference medium for cooling but I can say that Agate Eater blade does not get nearly as hot to the touch as my 10" trim saw (HP Thinline blade) does in water when it cuts agate.
. This hobby is teaching me patience even if I don't necessarily learn it, at least the first couple of times.
