coloursfly
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2024
Posts: 8
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Post by coloursfly on Sept 7, 2024 22:38:55 GMT -5
 Hey folks As stated in my "welcome post" I'm here as a frustrated beginner who has had really poor polishing results. I got a Kome Stone barrel tumbler for Christmas and started working it sometime around the end of January. Initially I followed the steps in the book and ran the supplied rocks through it following the booklet and using the grit provided. After much video watching (Michigan Rocks to name a few) I learned that that supplied polish will never work. I followed the advice in the vids and obtained some Aluminum Oxide grit and am still having cloudy looking dull rocks. *bangs head* The first few goes I likely had less than par tumbler husbandry.. meaning I likely was not cleaning the rocks well enough between batches. Since watching hours of vids I have been scrubbing everything with a toothbrush between each grit to assure nothing is going through to the next round. I have purchase ceramic beads to use after the first session is done. And have switched the final stage to Aluminum oxide polish. I even tried using Borax after the final polish. This last batch literally polished twice for 10 days each and the results are umm.. crapola (I'll pit pics). The aluminum oxide is 8000 grit. Questions.. do I need a higher number of aluminum oxide? Do I need to keep polishing? Do I have no concept on what I'm doing..
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Post by pebblesky on Sept 7, 2024 23:05:40 GMT -5
Welcome! Seems you are tumbling some challenging rocks that don't easily polish, but still there should at least be a few that are shiny now. I don't have experience in finishing in the rotary tumbler, but 10 days of final polish sounds more than enough. Do you fill the barrel about 4/5 full and have mixed size rocks or fillers to help the tumbling action?
Maybe try a batch with agates and jaspers, which will be an easy success for the beginners.
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coloursfly
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2024
Posts: 8
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Post by coloursfly on Sept 7, 2024 23:12:50 GMT -5
Welcome! Seems you are tumbling some challenging rocks that don't easily polish, but still there should at least be a few that are shiny now. I don't have experience in finishing in the rotary tumbler, but 10 days of final polish sounds more than enough. Do you fill the barrel about 4/5 full and have mixed size rocks or fillers to help the tumbling action? Maybe try a batch with agates and jaspers, which will be an easy success for the beginners. Nah, none are shiny. They are very smooth but look dull and cloudy. They look brilliant when wet though  These were rocks that came with the tumbler kits and a few beach rocks I wanted to try. Yes, I fill the barrel 2/3 full and use varied sizes. I also use the ceramic media in the last 3 stages. I will try to source out some agates and jasper.. but I will likely have to buy them online as there's not much here that sells rough stones. |
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coloursfly
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2024
Posts: 8
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Post by coloursfly on Sept 7, 2024 23:14:28 GMT -5
Welcome! Seems you are tumbling some challenging rocks that don't easily polish, but still there should at least be a few that are shiny now. I don't have experience in finishing in the rotary tumbler, but 10 days of final polish sounds more than enough. Do you fill the barrel about 4/5 full and have mixed size rocks or fillers to help the tumbling action? Maybe try a batch with agates and jaspers, which will be an easy success for the beginners. Should 8000 aluminum oxide grit be a decent enough polish or do I have to find 14000 grit? Michigan rocks vid once mentioned using 14000 aluminum oxide. |
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Post by pebblesky on Sept 7, 2024 23:23:48 GMT -5
I noticed from the pictures you posted there are black powders. Are these unused grits?
How does the slurry look like after each stage? It should be really muddy if everything works.
I am wondering if there is any faulty rock that holds grits from the previous stage and release them in the later stage. I have heard rotary is much less tolerant on this than vibe. Toothbrush might not work 100% in cleaning up. Do you try to burnish (like laundry) between stages? To be safe, maybe don't bring any porous or cracky rocks to stage 2.
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Post by pebblesky on Sept 7, 2024 23:32:11 GMT -5
Welcome! Seems you are tumbling some challenging rocks that don't easily polish, but still there should at least be a few that are shiny now. I don't have experience in finishing in the rotary tumbler, but 10 days of final polish sounds more than enough. Do you fill the barrel about 4/5 full and have mixed size rocks or fillers to help the tumbling action? Maybe try a batch with agates and jaspers, which will be an easy success for the beginners. Should 8000 aluminum oxide grit be a decent enough polish or do I have to find 14000 grit? Michigan rocks vid once mentioned using 14000 aluminum oxide. I use 8000 Grit Aluminum Oxide Polish from rockshed. Even after 500 SiC, you should be able to see some decent shine (for agates and jaspers). You might want to be careful about some beach rocks. Some could be porous on a micro-scale so they might hold grits that you can hardly see with naked eyes, or some of them could be quite weathered and if small sharp chips fall off, they might ruin the other rocks. Also don't forget to clean up the lid thoroughly between stages. They might hold grits as well. |
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Post by Pat on Sept 7, 2024 23:46:24 GMT -5
You are very patient.
When we started tumbling, and the rocks weren’t done by dinner time, we quit.
However my small tumbler is excellent at de-burring jump rings, and polishing metal jewelry pieces —- all in much less than an hour. I’m happy!
Tumbling rocks is just one facet of this wonderful hobby.
You’ve come to the right place. Lots of pros here. I’m glad. I like shiny rocks, too!
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coloursfly
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2024
Posts: 8
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Post by coloursfly on Sept 8, 2024 1:32:06 GMT -5
I noticed from the pictures you posted there are black powders. Are these unused grits? How does the slurry look like after each stage? It should be really muddy if everything works. I am wondering if there is any faulty rock that holds grits from the previous stage and release them in the later stage. I have heard rotary is much less tolerant on this than vibe. Toothbrush might not work 100% in cleaning up. Do you try to burnish (like laundry) between stages? To be safe, maybe don't bring any porous or cracky rocks to stage 2. I think the black you're seeing is crap on my washing machine, where I dumped them after I rinsed them (it's beside the sink).
The slurry looks like grey mud after the last two polishing marathons.
I've been pretty diligent to avoid porous stuff and keeping rocks that are around the same hardness. I knife scratched the beach ones to make sure they weren't soft before trying them. Actually the only beach rick on this batch is the larger one and it's likely the smoothest of the bunch.
I don't burnish. I tried on my last batch of rocks after I failed on the two prior goes.. it didn't seem to make a drop of difference. I suppose I could try it again!
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jimg
starting to shine!
Member since July 2024
Posts: 27
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Post by jimg on Sept 8, 2024 9:44:44 GMT -5
What grit are you using for stages 2 and 3?
In my rotaries, I use 220 and 600 silicon carbide grit, respectively, from Kingsley North. I suggest you consider repeating stages 2 and 3 with known-to-be-good SC grit.
Then proceed again to polish (I use the micro alumina 1-3 micron from KN).
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python
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2024
Posts: 292
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Post by python on Sept 8, 2024 10:59:11 GMT -5
I have 3 Komestone tumblers and they do a pretty good job. You just have to adjust to them over the slower traditional tumblers. I have the ones with supposed 3lb barrels, but I'm pretty sure they are a little larger than 3lb barrels.
You can look at my threads in the photo section to see the finished tumbles that I did in them. I will list how I tumble in those type of tumblers so that you can try it and see if it helps.
For any rocks that I collected, I wash them with a strong spray from the hose and a little soap to remove any dirt, sand, etc. before I use them for tumbling. I don't go crazy washing them. I just put them in a laundry basket and hose them off really well until I don't see anymore dirt coming off of them.
I use grit from The Rock Shed. These are the grits that I use:
Stage 1 - 60/90 Silicone Carbide
Stage 2 - 120/220 Silicone Carbide
Stage 3 - 500 Aluminum Oxide
Stage 4 - 8000 Aluminum Oxide Polish
I burnish after stages 2 and 4 with with a tiny bit of dish soap and 1 tbsp of Borax. I normally run the burnishing overnight.
With the tumblers, and any tumbler that has multiple speeds, I never use the two higher speeds. I always leave it on speed 1.
Since those tumblers run at a faster speed than normal tumblers, I always fill the barrels to 3/4 instead of 2/3. Since the drums I have are 4 inches deep, at fill them to at around 3 inches full.
When adding the water, I put the water to about a half inch below the rocks.
For the grit, use 1 tbsp for every pound of the size of the barrel. (Ex: 3lb barrel= 3 tbsp grit, 2lb barrel= 2 tbsp grit, etc).
I always use ceramic media mixed with the rocks in all stages after stage 1.
Here are the steps that I do:
STAGE 1 - 60/90 SiC grit. Run for 3 to 4 days.
Remove any rocks that are ready to move on and fill back to 3/4 with new rock and run stage 1 again. Repeat stage 1 until you have enough rocks finished to run stage 2. (I store the rocks that are ready to move to stage 2 in a bowl with water until I get enough to run them.)
_________
From stage 2 through finish, only run each stage once. No need to rerun a stage.
STAGE 2 - 120/220 Sic grit. Run for 3 to 4 days.
_________
Burnish - If needed, and more ceramic media to get drum to 3/4 full. A drop or 2 of dish soap and 1 tbsp Borax. Run for about 12 hours or so.
_________
STAGE 3 - 500 AO. Run for 7 to 10 days.
_________
STAGE 4 - 8000 AO Polish. Run for 7 to 10 days.
_________
Burnish - A drop or 2 of dish soap and 1 tbsp Borax. If needed, and more ceramic media to get drum to 3/4 full. Run for about 12 hours or so.
_________
Hope this helps to get you some shiny rocks! 👍
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python
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2024
Posts: 292
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Post by python on Sept 8, 2024 11:03:07 GMT -5
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coloursfly
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2024
Posts: 8
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Post by coloursfly on Sept 11, 2024 5:00:01 GMT -5
I have 3 Komestone tumblers and they do a pretty good job. You just have to adjust to them over the slower traditional tumblers. I have the ones with supposed 3lb barrels, but I'm pretty sure they are a little larger than 3lb barrels. You can look at my threads in the photo section to see the finished tumbles that I did in them. I will list how I tumble in those type of tumblers so that you can try it and see if it helps. For any rocks that I collected, I wash them with a strong spray from the hose and a little soap to remove any dirt, sand, etc. before I use them for tumbling. I don't go crazy washing them. I just put them in a laundry basket and hose them off really well until I don't see anymore dirt coming off of them. I use grit from The Rock Shed. These are the grits that I use: Stage 1 - 60/90 Silicone Carbide Stage 2 - 120/220 Silicone Carbide Stage 3 - 500 Aluminum Oxide Stage 4 - 8000 Aluminum Oxide Polish I burnish after stages 2 and 4 with with a tiny bit of dish soap and 1 tbsp of Borax. I normally run the burnishing overnight. With the tumblers, and any tumbler that has multiple speeds, I never use the two higher speeds. I always leave it on speed 1. Since those tumblers run at a faster speed than normal tumblers, I always fill the barrels to 3/4 instead of 2/3. Since the drums I have are 4 inches deep, at fill them to at around 3 inches full. When adding the water, I put the water to about a half inch below the rocks. For the grit, use 1 tbsp for every pound of the size of the barrel. (Ex: 3lb barrel= 3 tbsp grit, 2lb barrel= 2 tbsp grit, etc). I always use ceramic media mixed with the rocks in all stages after stage 1. Here are the steps that I do: STAGE 1 - 60/90 SiC grit. Run for 3 to 4 days. Remove any rocks that are ready to move on and fill back to 3/4 with new rock and run stage 1 again. Repeat stage 1 until you have enough rocks finished to run stage 2. (I store the rocks that are ready to move to stage 2 in a bowl with water until I get enough to run them.) _________ From stage 2 through finish, only run each stage once. No need to rerun a stage. STAGE 2 - 120/220 Sic grit. Run for 3 to 4 days. _________ Burnish - If needed, and more ceramic media to get drum to 3/4 full. A drop or 2 of dish soap and 1 tbsp Borax. Run for about 12 hours or so. _________ STAGE 3 - 500 AO. Run for 7 to 10 days. _________ STAGE 4 - 8000 AO Polish. Run for 7 to 10 days. _________ Burnish - A drop or 2 of dish soap and 1 tbsp Borax. If needed, and more ceramic media to get drum to 3/4 full. Run for about 12 hours or so. _________ Hope this helps to get you some shiny rocks! 👍Thanks! That's pretty comprehensive!! I will look through this and your vids and see what I may be doing wrong.. I know for a fact I was using the suggested speed settings and times for the tumbler from the manual. Stage one was speed 3 for 8-10 days.. so likely one big factor. I will double check my grits later, but I bought myself a bulk National Geographic grit pack after my first go and they don't actually list the grits on the jars.. just step 1, step 2 etc.. I have not been using the step 4 grit provided just using the aluminum oxide 8000. This may be another factor! |
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lordsorril
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since April 2020
Posts: 927
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Post by lordsorril on Sept 12, 2024 8:44:05 GMT -5
Some of those rocks you show in your initial photos are unlikely to take a rotary polish unless tumbled with the same type of stone. I personally wouldn't bother with multi-mohs material (like granite) either...unless you have a vibe tumbler. |
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RockyBeach
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2023
Posts: 342
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Post by RockyBeach on Sept 12, 2024 18:43:00 GMT -5
coloursfly fwiw ... I started to "burnish" between all stages, and it has made quite a difference in my results, shinewise. A bit of Dawn (or similar) and about 1 TB of Borax with the usual amount of water (or a little less) and run for at least a few hours (or until you remember that you are tumbling --whichever comes first). It's always surprising how "dirty" the water is after all the rinsing and scrubbing at the sink that preceded the burnishing. I'm mostly running beach, riverbed and parking lot rocks and even with those it has made a positive difference for me.
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 386
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Post by waterboysh on Sept 13, 2024 7:40:28 GMT -5
The slurry looks like grey mud after the last two polishing marathons. That tells me you likely have something on the softer side and don't realize it. The polish stage removes so little material that the slurry is usually still very thin and watery. I think you have a rock that is shedding more material than you realize, and that is acting like a coarse grit and scratching everything up. I also see a lot of white frosting on the edges though, which is usually indicative of the barrel being underfilled. For stages 2+ in rotary, I usually aim for around 2/3 - 3/4 with about 30% of that being ceramic media. |
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coloursfly
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2024
Posts: 8
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Post by coloursfly on Sept 13, 2024 10:25:18 GMT -5
So.... After reading all these replies.. kicking myself, contemplating my existence and reflection I have: - Ordered a grit pack from the Rock Shed - Ordered 5 lbs of Mexican lace agates - Bought some Borax and stole my wife's Dawn dish soap  - Contemplated the cost of shipping to Canada - Hid said purchase from the wife I think I'm ready to try this again with all the same material and better grit with burnishing in between stages after stage 2. I will let you know how it goes after I get the order! I think I was led into a fantasy with buying a "rock tumbling rock mix" and believing this would be the best place to start. I guess without any real experience one would believe that starter rock tumbling kits would provide the best place to get a batch of rocks that would all work well together.. alas, I am wrong. I think I may do some scratch tests on the rocks I had been working with to see where they all fall in the Moh's scale and maybe in the future I can add these into appropriate batches that are similar hardness... |
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python
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2024
Posts: 292
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Post by python on Sept 13, 2024 11:08:15 GMT -5
So.... After reading all these replies.. kicking myself, contemplating my existence and reflection I have: - Ordered a grit pack from the Rock Shed - Ordered 5 lbs of Mexican lace agates - Bought some Borax and stole my wife's Dawn dish soap - Contemplated the cost of shipping to Canada - Hid said purchase from the wife I think I'm ready to try this again with all the same material and better grit with burnishing in between stages after stage 2. I will let you know how it goes after I get the order! I think I was led into a fantasy with buying a "rock tumbling rock mix" and believing this would be the best place to start. I guess without any real experience one would believe that starter rock tumbling kits would provide the best place to get a batch of rocks that would all work well together.. alas, I am wrong. I think I may do some scratch tests on the rocks I had been working with to see where they all fall in the Moh's scale and maybe in the future I can add these into appropriate batches that are similar hardness... Don't worry, all beginners that don't know much see those kits and think the same thing. Strangely enough, it seems that the directions that come with all rock tumblers are not accurate on how to get shiny rocks. |
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chaosdsm
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since April 2024
Posts: 162
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Post by chaosdsm on Sept 13, 2024 11:48:52 GMT -5
So.... - stole my wife's Dawn dish soap - Contemplated the cost of a new bottle of Dawn Vs. hiding from the wrath of the wife, before putting the dish soap backThere, fixed it for you  |
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RockyBeach
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2023
Posts: 342
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Post by RockyBeach on Sept 13, 2024 13:43:32 GMT -5
whatever you do, coloursfly , don't give up! even the "failed" rocks look better than the ones that never saw the inside of a tumbler. and if the frustration level ever does get to you ... take a break. Remember... Hobbies are supposed to be FUN!  |
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Post by jasoninsd on Sept 14, 2024 22:27:30 GMT -5
So.... - Bought some Borax and stole my wife's Dawn dish soap - Hid said purchase from the wife Okay...with these two you're officially hooked! LOL |
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These were rocks that came with the tumbler kits and a few beach rocks I wanted to try. Yes, I fill the barrel 2/3 full and use varied sizes. I also use the ceramic media in the last 3 stages. I will try to source out some agates and jasper.. but I will likely have to buy them online as there's not much here that sells rough stones. 
