lapidary1234
spending too much on rocks
"If you like rocks you can't be all bad!!" ~ old timer quote
Member since October 2021
Posts: 293
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Post by lapidary1234 on Nov 17, 2024 21:23:25 GMT -5
whalecottagedesigns its been a week or more since I've been on this site (been busy pretending to be a mechanic  anyways you didn't specifically say it but by the way you typed it I'm guessing your sintered wheel is a 220. If that's the case it probably cuts more like a 320 or even 400. There has been extensive talk about some folks using a hard wheel that is finer than the 280 nova (320 or even 500). There is definitely a camp of people who prefer to do final shaping on a hard wheel and then backtrack to the 280 nova. I've tried it with limited success however I am going from a 320 hard lap back to my 280 nova. If you wanted to do an experiment you could load your electroplated 220 wheel (if you still have one) and put it next to the sintered wheel and compare. I'd put my money on the sintered cutting like a finer grit wheel than the electroplated one. And that's okay...different tools for different jobs! I can understand what you mean by cutting more "smooth". It is a nice feeling to have your stone slide across the wheel 
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Post by whalecottagedesigns on Nov 17, 2024 22:22:02 GMT -5
whalecottagedesigns its been a week or more since I've been on this site (been busy pretending to be a mechanic anyways you didn't specifically say it but by the way you typed it I'm guessing your sintered wheel is a 220. If that's the case it probably cuts more like a 320 or even 400. There has been extensive talk about some folks using a hard wheel that is finer than the 280 nova (320 or even 500). There is definitely a camp of people who prefer to do final shaping on a hard wheel and then backtrack to the 280 nova. I've tried it with limited success however I am going from a 320 hard lap back to my 280 nova. If you wanted to do an experiment you could load your electroplated 220 wheel (if you still have one) and put it next to the sintered wheel and compare. I'd put my money on the sintered cutting like a finer grit wheel than the electroplated one. And that's okay...different tools for different jobs! I can understand what you mean by cutting more "smooth". It is a nice feeling to have your stone slide across the wheel I have seen folks say that the sintered appears to cut at a lower grit than the electroplated too! To be honest, I just don't have enough experience to be able to attest to that much, but at a quick glance, I am pretty sure that is true! But what I can say for sure, the sintered 80 combined with sintered 220, then on to resin 280 works pretty well for me! I am able to get my shape just about perfect on the 220 and then it does take a while to get those scratches out on the 280 but I get the impression that that is fairly universal for most folks! I did try an experiment when I was still using electroplated hard ones where I added in a soft 150 after the 220 hard, and it did speed up the workflow, but it was just too cramped to be able to do more complex shapes like hearts and whatnot. So I am back to bog standard wheel flow again. I do have exciting (for me) news, we are finally getting the actual super duper monster crazy expensive Nova wheels. Till now I have tried the standard ones and the Rez ones. I love the smoothness on the hand of the standard wheels, but must say that the Rez wheels cut faster, and certainly sprayed waaaaaaaaaaaay less water on me whilst grinding! And the Rez did last longer than the standard ones, I got a year and a half out of those, but only about half a year out of the standard ones, and my last two Turkish agates took almost half an hour each on the 280 alone!:-) The Rez wheels were the ones I got first, and never understood why Cabking included a plastic apron until I got the standard wheels! I did not like the QC build quality on either of those types, half the wheels had bumpy areas on them, and I am hoping that the Nova's are better from that aspect! So, in a couple of months when the Novas are run in properly, I will be able to do a proper comparison for folks between the standard Cabking wheels, the Rez ones and the Nova ones. |
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lapidary1234
spending too much on rocks
"If you like rocks you can't be all bad!!" ~ old timer quote
Member since October 2021
Posts: 293
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Post by lapidary1234 on Nov 17, 2024 23:08:37 GMT -5
whalecottagedesigns the most important part is that you found what works for you!! I have my similar intricacies. I do my initial shaping on a 60 grit te tured wheel, then refine on a 220, then over to the 60 grit nova lap, then to the 280 nova. Seems counterintuitive but the 60 grit nova cuts much "softer" than you'd think. I find i can remove scratches from it with the 280. My sintered wheels are at my workshop and I combine/finish there with the agglomerate silicon carbide belts so its hard to make an accurate comparison. But again, I've found what works for me. And the plus side is, its a hobby so I have taught myself not to stress over perfection! All I know is I should have went with a coarser grit than my 60 sintered. My goal was to be able to hog off rough to flatten a side and put it in the slab grabber for my slab saw. I'm in the process of building a combo machine with textured wheels to do that. Congrats on the nova wheels, I'm sure you'll love them. The only bit of advice I have is be conscious of how much pressure you put on the 280. I bought a complete set summer of 2023 and my 280 is just now starting to show the fiber behind it in one small (1×1cm) spot while the rest of the wheels have a more life left. This seems to be common though as most people go through 280's first. I just think I could have gotten more life our of it if I'd been more conscious! I'm hoping to get another year out of it before replacing. I've seen folks using wheels that have fibers showing all over. I cab maybe 12-15 hours a week most weeks to give you a reference
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Post by whalecottagedesigns on Nov 18, 2024 2:09:48 GMT -5
whalecottagedesigns the most important part is that you found what works for you!! I have my similar intricacies. I do my initial shaping on a 60 grit te tured wheel, then refine on a 220, then over to the 60 grit nova lap, then to the 280 nova. Seems counterintuitive but the 60 grit nova cuts much "softer" than you'd think. I find i can remove scratches from it with the 280. My sintered wheels are at my workshop and I combine/finish there with the agglomerate silicon carbide belts so its hard to make an accurate comparison. But again, I've found what works for me. And the plus side is, its a hobby so I have taught myself not to stress over perfection! All I know is I should have went with a coarser grit than my 60 sintered. My goal was to be able to hog off rough to flatten a side and put it in the slab grabber for my slab saw. I'm in the process of building a combo machine with textured wheels to do that. Congrats on the nova wheels, I'm sure you'll love them. The only bit of advice I have is be conscious of how much pressure you put on the 280. I bought a complete set summer of 2023 and my 280 is just now starting to show the fiber behind it in one small (1×1cm) spot while the rest of the wheels have a more life left. This seems to be common though as most people go through 280's first. I just think I could have gotten more life our of it if I'd been more conscious! I'm hoping to get another year out of it before replacing. I've seen folks using wheels that have fibers showing all over. I cab maybe 12-15 hours a week most weeks to give you a reference I love hearing how other folks go about it! Interesting information that you found the 60 to 280 soft to be a working jump! I do have a bit of a heavy hand, so will have to make sure I am more gentle with the Novas! Just because, well, you know, a million money tokens! :-) I probably only get 10 hours max in a five day work shift cycle to cab, life takes its toll... |
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cccbock
has rocks in the head
Member since December 2011
Posts: 503
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Post by cccbock on Nov 19, 2024 1:26:04 GMT -5
you might consider building one yourself...
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 19, 2024 10:05:30 GMT -5
you might consider building one yourself... I bought a 30" stainless shaft, 1" diameter, from Covington, and got a couple HD old stock flange bearings from ebay I think about a year ago. The threaded shaft with nuts cost me only slightly more than a cut piece of shafting without threads would have cost at the steel yard, they must have stocked up on a bunch pre 2020. It is still in the box on the top shelf in my shop waiting for me to fabricate the dog house for the pulley and bearings, and find a sheet metal shop to make the pan and hoods for it per the drawing I also haven't made yet, while I put a roof on my saw and fabrication shop, expanded the shop, and accumulated all the bits to erect the semi-outdoor welding area next to the shop, now interrupted by a total re-pipe on our main house, to be followed by a new subfloor, floor, kitchen, partial bathroom, and whatever else I find as I go. OCD in full tilt boogie. I said that to say this, careful what you take on, even if it is seems like the best option. As for the old HP, FranTom, etc combos and cabbers, they can be equally time consuming projects, and a huge PITA every time you change wheels. Also not especially ergonomic. |
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 611
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Post by rocknrob on Nov 19, 2024 13:32:34 GMT -5
you might consider building one yourself... I bought a 30" stainless shaft, 1" diameter, from Covington, and got a couple HD old stock flange bearings from ebay I think about a year ago. The threaded shaft with nuts cost me only slightly more than a cut piece of shafting without threads would have cost at the steel yard, they must have stocked up on a bunch pre 2020. It is still in the box on the top shelf in my shop waiting for me to fabricate the dog house for the pulley and bearings, and find a sheet metal shop to make the pan and hoods for it per the drawing I also haven't made yet, while I put a roof on my saw and fabrication shop, expanded the shop, and accumulated all the bits to erect the semi-outdoor welding area next to the shop, now interrupted by a total re-pipe on our main house, to be followed by a new subfloor, floor, kitchen, partial bathroom, and whatever else I find as I go. OCD in full tilt boogie. I said that to say this, careful what you take on, even if it is seems like the best option. As for the old HP, FranTom, etc combos and cabbers, they can be equally time consuming projects, and a huge PITA every time you change wheels. Also not especially ergonomic. I hear you about the old ones being not so ergonomic. I did get to take a look at an old (pre-60's) combo unit and I think half the mods I would have to make on it to have it work would have been to soften the edges a bit. I swear you could slice meat with some of that old steel and if ever there was a thing to encourage getting your tetanus shot.. that would do it. The guy wanted $600 for it but it was so worn down that I would have had to buy it for $300 to make it worth buying when I could get a new cabber for $1400. What's been intriguing me lately aside from the KN 6" or the HP CB6 (leaning towards the KN 6 for a few reasons as mentioned earlier) is the expando drum option. If I can find an arbor for example, get two drums and an assortment of belts I can take cabs up to a certain level and then finish it on the flat lap via Aluminum Oxide 8000 or Cerium. It's not like I'm getting rid of the flat lap here. More fuel for the fire I suppose. - Rob |
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 19, 2024 14:53:41 GMT -5
I cut cabs for a long time with a pair of 2 wheel cabbers, a Lortone Max-Pro 8 and the Star Diamond equivalent. One had 2 hard wheels and the other had 2 expandos. They took up about a 4 foot wide section of bench to leave the room to change belts. I used SiC belts back then to save money, probably quadrupled the time to make a cab. What a total PITA, changing belts gets old.
Now I also know a guy who uses expandos on a Genie instead of the Nova type with diamond belts, but he put that together when a 6x2 expando was about $25 bucks.
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Post by parfive on Nov 19, 2024 15:40:20 GMT -5
SiC belts on expando no prob for Bobby1.
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Post by whalecottagedesigns on Nov 19, 2024 19:15:59 GMT -5
I cut cabs for a long time with a pair of 2 wheel cabbers, a Lortone Max-Pro 8 and the Star Diamond equivalent. One had 2 hard wheels and the other had 2 expandos. They took up about a 4 foot wide section of bench to leave the room to change belts. I used SiC belts back then to save money, probably quadrupled the time to make a cab. What a total PITA, changing belts gets old. Now I also know a guy who uses expandos on a Genie instead of the Nova type with diamond belts, but he put that together when a 6x2 expando was about $25 bucks. Well, that was interesting information also! Thank you kindly! From reading what the guys kept saying about expando drums, particularly the cost saving part, I was of the opinion that it was a good option perhaps to give to a Newbie. Buut, if it takes 4 times as long then that is a whole other kettle of monkeys again! :-) |
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gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
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Post by gunsil on Nov 19, 2024 20:52:28 GMT -5
I have a DP Titan, hate it. Hate spitters and the thing spins awfully fast with no variable speed. I also have a pair of old Raytech 8" four wheel grinders, love 'em. The old Raytechs are four wheel machines with two fixed wheels in the middle and an expando drum on each side with polishing discs on each end. One has sintered wheels in the middle and a 220 diamond belt on the left expando and a 400 belt on the right. The other machine I modified to use novas in the middle with a 600 belt on the left and a 1200 and 3,000 nova type wheel fixed in the center positions and a 14,000 and a 50,000 belt for the right expando so I have 8 wheels and only need to change a belt if I want to go to 50k. These machines have pressure water feed and very variable shaft speed and to me are much better than the Genie/Titan machines. Hard to find anymore, but these older Raytech machines were absolutely the best you could buy back in the day. They can be converted to four novas for those who prefer them but the variable speed is wonderful and pressure water feed rules. Many have rusted out but otherwise they are easy enough to change bearings on or change the hosing for the water feeds that if one is found it would still be one of the best machines made.
PS I'm a long way from most of you folks but I have an old Titan with some new wheels and all good wheels I don't like so I'd part with it for reasonable coin.
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Post by whalecottagedesigns on Nov 19, 2024 21:08:03 GMT -5
gunsil That makes sense too though! If you had two machines like that, where you have all the grits instantly available and do not have to change the belts all the time, and you have the added benefit of being able to change the speed, that sounds pretty fine too! Plus, of course the reduced cost due to the belts being so much more affordable. :-) I love hearing the different opinions, that is how we learn.
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Post by stardiamond on Nov 19, 2024 22:30:25 GMT -5
I have a Genie and two extra spin on right side arbors. One is used similar to the left side, wheels, one is similar to the standard right side and the third is 14,000 and 50,000. I change water in the right side trade before mounting the 600,1200 and 8000 arbor. The right side is also where the trim saw attachment is mounted.
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 611
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Post by rocknrob on Nov 20, 2024 13:22:37 GMT -5
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Post by whalecottagedesigns on Nov 20, 2024 19:14:55 GMT -5
One last thought here too, we have only been playing "rocks" for maybe 3 years now, and found ourself going from All-U-Need Flat cabbing machine to a Cabking. So we are not able to change direction now, the big machines are just too expensive the play around with chopping and changing, and I do love the Cabking tractor very much, it's name is Gnasher (for anyone that knows old British children's cartoon booklets).
Were I to start again now from what I have learned so far, I would get the Genie type machine where you can move one extra arbor arm on with extra wheels. That sounds like it is just perfect. You could have 80 and 220 sintered hard, then 150 280 600 1200, then a separate arm with 3000 8000 14000 wheels on. That extra 150 soft will make a massive difference to the workflow, and then having the extra 8000 and 14000 wheels would be the bee's knees.
If we are dreaming about "perfect" solutions, of course! :-)
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Post by rmf on Nov 20, 2024 21:42:50 GMT -5
The reason I went sintered is they cost almost exactly what a new plated wheel costs but will last the rest of my life time and the life time of who gets the wheels after I am done with them so no more replacemets.
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Post by jasoninsd on Nov 21, 2024 0:27:47 GMT -5
Gosh darnit rocknrob! I read your first post and was going to post a quick response...but happened to actually read the the thread and saw there was a "life" delay! I've got the KN Cabber 6" with Nova wheels...and don't regret it at all! Some of the hiccups have been mentioned...but they're all tolerable. |
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rocknrob
has rocks in the head
If Costco only sold slabs in bulk...
Member since May 2024
Posts: 611
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Post by rocknrob on Nov 21, 2024 0:36:43 GMT -5
Gosh darnit rocknrob ! I read your first post and was going to post a quick response...but happened to actually read the the thread and saw there was a "life" delay! I've got the KN Cabber 6" with Nova wheels...and don't regret it at all! Some of the hiccups have been mentioned...but they're all tolerable. That is a very nice cabber and most likely the one I would get. Do you have a problem with the sharper angled wrist rest than say the Highland Park CB6? I figure I would just get some pipe insulation and soften the edge or something with memory foam. I'm still holding out for a potential used item at the gem show this weekend. You never know what's going to turn up and since I'm volunteering, I'll be able to really ask around without being too much of a pest.  - Rob |
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Post by jasoninsd on Nov 21, 2024 0:40:41 GMT -5
Gosh darnit rocknrob ! I read your first post and was going to post a quick response...but happened to actually read the the thread and saw there was a "life" delay! I've got the KN Cabber 6" with Nova wheels...and don't regret it at all! Some of the hiccups have been mentioned...but they're all tolerable. That is a very nice cabber and most likely the one I would get. Do you have a problem with the sharper angled wrist rest than say the Highland Park CB6? I figure I would just get some pipe insulation and soften the edge or something with memory foam. I'm still holding out for a potential used item at the gem show this weekend. You never know what's going to turn up and since I'm volunteering, I'll be able to really ask around without being too much of a pest. - RobIf you can snag one at the show, it'll save quite a few bucks! Fingers crossed!! I don't have any issue with the wrist rest...or at least I've never paid attention to it...but now that you've mentioned it, I'll probably have all kinds of issues! LOL |
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anyways you didn't specifically say it but by the way you typed it I'm guessing your sintered wheel is a 220. If that's the case it probably cuts more like a 320 or even 400. There has been extensive talk about some folks using a hard wheel that is finer than the 280 nova (320 or even 500). There is definitely a camp of people who prefer to do final shaping on a hard wheel and then backtrack to the 280 nova. I've tried it with limited success however I am going from a 320 hard lap back to my 280 nova. 
