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Post by texaswoodie on May 23, 2007 14:43:56 GMT -5
Daniel
I am who I am and I'm damned proud of it. Just as I assume you are proud of who you are.
When one person in a community can dictate what everyone in the community can or cannot do, it's BS plain and simple.
I'm all for people being who they are, but when they start pushing my way of life to the side, I'm going to fight back. We have sat here and let America go to hell and I for one am tired of it.
There is no law that says you HAVE to pray in school. Why the heck is there a law that says you can't? Is that not descrimination against me? You betcha, but everyone is so into political correctness that they don't care about the majority any more.
Curt
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Post by cina on May 23, 2007 15:06:15 GMT -5
I did not see that post about gays and lesbian's and I to will not let that go as ok! My Mom had 12 kids and she was so strong and two of the 12 are gay and I stand by them in all they do both are wonderful good parents and I am blessed by them and there childern!
I will now step off this ride and throw up it is ok to be proud and raise good kids and to pray but is not ok to cast stones because people do it dif then you!
Steph
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 23, 2007 15:26:58 GMT -5
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Post by texaswoodie on May 23, 2007 15:28:17 GMT -5
Hey Steph
I have a sister that is lesbian. We have way different opinions on just about everything, but we still love each other very much.
All I want is to have the same right to do what I think is right as the minorities do. And I don't. I am being descriminated against and nobody who can do anything about it cares.
Curt
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Post by xenaswolf on May 23, 2007 19:31:22 GMT -5
Lets talk about discrimination shall we?
Until you have been denied housing, fired from a job, gotten the hell beat out of you, denied the opportunity to marry or adopt, been raped to "cure" you, and a thousand other things I can't think of off the top of my head, don't whine to me about discrimination. Gays and lesbians face this kind of crap every day of their lives. All because of who they sleep with.
You are in one of the most priviledged classes of all..a middle age white straight christian male.
Prayer in school? Hey bring it back! Make sure that the Muslims, Hindu's, Pagan, Satanists, etc etc get to pray in school too.
The US needs to either change the constitution to read Freedom, justice and the pursuit of happiness for straight, white, Christians only or follow what it says FOR ALL.
I am an American citizen just like you. I pay taxes, just like you. I vote, just like you. I served my country. So how dare anyone deny me the same rights as you just because they don't like the fact I sleep with someone of the same sex.
IF the family values you speak of are teaching children to hate and be prejudiced, well that is alive and well as voiced in this thread.
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Post by texaswoodie on May 23, 2007 19:42:32 GMT -5
Have I said anything against you Xena?
If I want my children to pray in school that is what they are going to do. You, the ACLU or no one else is going to stop them.
I'm not whining. I am making a very strong statement.
Curt
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Post by lonewolfrockhound on May 23, 2007 20:05:14 GMT -5
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Post by texaswoodie on May 23, 2007 20:49:32 GMT -5
LW
My dial up won't load videos, but your right, I do need a laugh.
I have never personally attacked anyone in this forum and never will. Unlike the people that think my belief in God is an evil thing.
Curt
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Post by krazydiamond on May 23, 2007 20:54:55 GMT -5
did i say 10 foot pole...maybe i meant 25 foot pole...?
KD
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adrian65
Cave Dweller 
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,789
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Post by adrian65 on May 24, 2007 1:43:23 GMT -5
Sorry about interfering, but that positive discrimination starts to hit here too.
I don't have anything against the gays, but what if straight people would march on the streets half (or more) naked just 'cause they are straight? You see what I mean? I think gayness or straightness is an intimate option and it has to remain that way.
I assume a gay will have no problems entering in a normal bar or restaurant, but I won't dare to go to a "special" bar with my wife. I wander what would happen if some bars would become "straight bars".
Now about the religion in schools, we are here a Christian Orthodox majority but a recent law says that no icons are allowed into the classroom any more, in order not to offend the minorities. In my opinion the icons should remain there and if there were some children having other religion in the classroom, their icons or religious symbols might be added too. It would be a good way to teach the children about other religions and I think that would be some great tolerance seeds for the future. It also would bring some culture for the children, in a world where their reading time tends to zero.
Adrian
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 24, 2007 8:40:59 GMT -5
.... I don't have anything against the gays, but what if straight people would march on the streets half (or more) naked just 'cause they are straight? You see what I mean? I think gayness or straightness is an intimate option and it has to remain that way.... Adrian Adrian... I have to disagree... for most, being gay is not an option, it is biologically determined. It is estimated that 1 -10% of every society is homosexual... even in the animal kingdom. Just this morning I heard a story about 2 male Flamingos in a zoo that took over an abandoned nest and hatched out the egg. Why do we treat these folks like they aren't people/citizens? Is it fear? Ignorance? Prejudice? I can understand if a church doesn't wish to marry gay couples... I respect that but not allowing these folks a legal union with all the benefits that go along with that is just wrong. I think Lesa's outrage is justified... and when someone claims to be a victim after defending another's inflammatory comments... well that's just foolish. I have to laugh when a middle aged white guy says he's tired of being discriminated against... now I've heard everything. I wish that people would stop hating in the name of Christ... this is not what He taught... remember? ...Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... that means don't judge. Unconditional Love is what my God teaches me to have for my fellow man. Anything less is NOT scriptural and flies in the face of what it means to be a true follower of the Messiah. Christ didn't preach morality and God doesn't have a political agenda and it really gets my back up when so called Christian groups claim otherwise. But lets get back to this thread... Some of you guys really hurt one of the most loved members of this board and I think an apology is in order here.... not too long ago this board had an atmosphere of tolerance and acceptance.... now I think there are a few members that post inflammatory stuff just to start trouble. Keep it to yourself please... if I wanted to hear that kind of crap I'd join an evangelical church. I know that my comments will ruffle some feathers but I don't care... I've said my piece and will not come back to this thread. It disgusts me.... Dan |
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Post by texaswoodie on May 24, 2007 8:53:31 GMT -5
For crying out loud Dan.
I don't really care if I've ruffled feathers either. I never, not once, said anything to any one person. I stated my opinion and if you or any one else doesn't like it, that is your right. Just as it's right for me to have my opinion. Just because you think my opinion doesn't count as anything valid does not mean it is not valid.
You will get no apology from me for having an opinion.
Curt
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Post by akansan on May 24, 2007 9:10:35 GMT -5
Hey Dan - For about ten or fifteen years the most discriminated against person when applying for federal money, trying to get accepted into college, or even just starting out in certain fields was the white male protestant.
And I have to say I agree with Curt at least partially. There are situations where because a Christian is the one doing it, it's not allowed for fear the majority will rule over the minority. However, if a non-Christian of any stripe - Muslim, Jew, Atheist, etc. - were to do the same equivalent, it would be allowed for fear their minority rights would be enfringed. Protesting against something because you're a Christian and it's against your beliefs? The whole world (and some Christians) are against you. Protesting against the "limited" beliefs of Christians?
The whole world (and some Christians) are for you.
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Post by cina on May 24, 2007 9:44:56 GMT -5
I sleep with a bald man do any of you care no why cuz it is my life it is my bed room and to tell truth it should not make any dif in your life..... Point alot of people need to live there life and not everyones else I know a man who will tell anyone who can hear him that Gays should not have kids "them people can't raise them up right" we have a couple down the road they have a son he is a darn good kid raised well by loving parents!The big mouth man gets drunk and hits his wife his 7yo was caught trying to cut his self with glass. I think we need to work on our selfs and keep our noses out of other peoples home life's!
With this I am grabbing my 10 foot poll and getting out of here.
Wate up KD
Steph
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Post by lonewolfrockhound on May 24, 2007 9:53:53 GMT -5
I've told you peeps before....ya gotta learn that this discussion board stuff needs to be put in its place. You won't change not one person's opinion on a discussion board. It's basically everybody giving THEIR OWN opinion. They've already developed it over many years for crissakes so a post by a disagreeing member will suddenly lift the "veil" from somebody's eyes on an issue??? On EITHER side of any issue?
I dare say not!
So, voice your opinions. But realize where you are. Hell fire, if somebody hurts your feelings because of their personal opinion, simply voice your own beliefs! Don't start whining and crying about it for crissakes! Grow the hell up.
People have to learn to agree to disagree without all the personal ego crapola getting in the way.
For shit sake I don't even post my own board's links here because I know a few liberals here, people that I like mind you, would read it and broadcast what a freaking bigot I am. And nothing could be further from the truth! So I avoid it because I want to get along with the good people here and talk about rocks and such. Religious and political discussion would be nice too but forget that when you have folks that feel they have to get up in arms about crap that you won't freaking change not one iota here on this board.
That's stupid. Get a grip for crissakes.
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adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,789
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Post by adrian65 on May 24, 2007 11:38:46 GMT -5
Adrian... I have to disagree... for most, being gay is not an option, it is biologically determined. It is estimated that 1 -10% of every society is homosexual... even in the animal kingdom. Just this morning I heard a story about 2 male Flamingos in a zoo that took over an abandoned nest and hatched out the egg. Why do we treat these folks like they aren't people/citizens? Is it fear? Ignorance? Prejudice? I can understand if a church doesn't wish to marry gay couples... I respect that but not allowing these folks a legal union with all the benefits that go along with that is just wrong. Dan Dan, I know that many gays are biologically determined, but it's not about that. I only said that inadequate or ostentative public behavior bothers me, no matter if it comes from a gay or from a straight. Cina said it very well: "keep our noses out of other peoples home life's!" But keep in mind the word HOME. About being mistreated , I'm with you, any person having decent behavior must be treated properly and respectfully. About legal unions, I am aware that there are many pros an cons. If I'd say that gay couples are not fitted to have their own children, you could probably say that many straight couples have diseases that makes them not having babies and nobody deny their right to marriage. I could also say that two men or two women are not made to raise a children together, but you could answer me that a drunk and violent father or mother are far worst. And you would have been right in both cases, medically and technically speaking. But keep in mind that the society we live in is made of humans which know for centuries that a family is made of a woman and a man in order to raise children. And that basic knowledge cannot be deleted over night like at computers. My opinion is that the last years brought improvements in this field. As I know, the gay rights movement is something relatively new - about 30...40 years (tell me please if I'm wrong here cause you probably know that before 1989 the information was very poor here). That was not enough for a society to switch but I think that the next generation or maybe over two generations will be much more tolerant in this direction. The women rights movement was also a long process that sadly was not completed yet everywhere in the world. So that's my opinion, sorry if it hurts some people but I think it's reasonable. Adrian PS. Even from this type of threads one can learn interesting things, I had no idea about the animal homosexual behavior. |
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stoneman92
starting to shine!
Member since February 2007
Posts: 30
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Post by stoneman92 on May 24, 2007 12:00:28 GMT -5
<<<It is estimated that 1 -10% of every society is homosexual... even in the animal kingdom. >>>
You wouldn't have any data to back that up would you? I wouldn't say that because a pair of same sexed animals were "humping" one another that would be a homosexual relationship. I don't think you will find any animals that that "mate for life" as they say, are of the same sex. If you have information to the contrary, I would like to see that.
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 24, 2007 12:43:56 GMT -5
You got it.... Clipped from Seattle Times: seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002340835_gaycritter19m.htmlIn his book "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity," Seattle biologist Bruce Bagemihl estimates 450 species display some form of homosexuality, which can include same-sex courtship, displays of affection, sexual activity, long-term pairings and parenting. • Up to 15 percent of Western gull pairs are females. The birds woo each other with gifts of food and form bonds that last for years. They build joint nests and tend clutches of unfertilized eggs. Occasionally, one or both females will mate with males, but they always raise their young together. • In some penguin species, males form lifelong same-sex partnerships — especially in captivity. A pair named Roy and Silo in New York's Central Park Zoo incubated rocks until keepers gave them an egg of their own. • Male giraffes spend most of their time in bachelor groups, where they entwine necks and rub against each other for up to an hour at a time. These "necking" sessions often culminate in mounting, and can outnumber heterosexual encounters 9 to 1. It's rare for animals to be exclusively homosexual, Bagemihl said, but bisexuality is common. While male orcas seem to relish their same-sex romps, they mate with females, too. Virtually all bonobos, or pygmy apes, are bisexual. None of this is surprising to field biologists, but many omit or gloss over homosexual behavior in their scientific reports. Others have tried to explain it away as a form of aggression or confusion. homosexuality has been documented in over 450 different vertebrate speciesseedmagazine.com/news/2006/06/the_gay_animal_kingdom.php?page=all&p=yHere's the 'mated' pair of male Flamingos I mentioned earlier. they've been paired for 5 years... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/04/nflaming04.xml10%... Don't know if you're familiar with Alfred Kinsey's study... but.. Fortune, 1991, p. 42: "Kinsey’s classic 1948 studies suggest that about 10% of American adults are homosexual, a figure that more recent surveys support."The head of the American Psychological Association, Bryant Welch, testified on 2/6/89 that the APA had found "in fact all the research supported the conclusion that homosexuality... is a sexual orientation found consistently in about ten percent of the male population and approximately 5 percent of the female population.... research showed that across different historical eras and in totally different cultures the incidence of homosexuality remained the same irrespective of public attitudes and prohibitions."Washington Times, 11/19/91, p. A3: "10 percent of American men are homosexual and 5 percent of women are lesbian."Professional journals like the Family Therapy Networker, 1991: "from Kinsey’s historic study in the 1940s to the present, surveys consistently show that 10 percent of the population is either gay or lesbian–that’s 25 million people."The best studies include:
a. USA:
Kinsey-NORC 1970 – 8.2% M, 4.3% F after age 15
FRI-Dallas 1984 – 10.7% M, 7.4% F after age 12
NCHS 1988-91 – ² 3.5% M since 1977 (over 50,000 respondents)
GSS 1989 – < 6.3% M after age 17
RTI-Dallas 1989 – 7.6% M, 2.7% F since 1978
GSS 1990 – 4.8% M after age 17
Billy/Guttmacher 1993 – 2.3% M in last 10 years
b. Australia:
Ross 1986 – 11.2 M, 4.6% F
c. Great Britain
Forman/Chilvers 1984-86 – 1.7% M in random controls, 2.7% M among patients
Johnson 1992 – 6.1% M (almost 19,000 respondents)
d. France
Spira 1992 – 4.1% M, 2.6% F (over 20,000 respondents)
e. Norway
Sundet 1987 – 3.5% M, 3.0% F
f. Denmark
Schmidt 1989 – 3.8% M
Melbye 1989 – 2.7% M
3. Median of studies listed above: 4.1% M, 2.0% F
Upper quartile: 7.0% M, 4.6% FThere you go... 1-10%... in study after study. Feel free to ask for more information.. I'll be happy to look it up for you. |
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Post by parfive on May 24, 2007 13:01:36 GMT -5
Surprised the fact checkers missed this one.
Daniel: " . . . . . would never automatically be a redneck - not even
if they dropped out of high school and married a 3rd cousin."
Wouldn't it have to be a first cousin to qualify, or have those standards gone to hell too?
Rich
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Post by lonewolfrockhound on May 24, 2007 13:13:17 GMT -5
Actually, placing all the statistical comparisons to lower forms of life aside, I personally had changed my very conservative opinion of being "NO" on gay civil unions and "NO" to gay marriage to just "No" on gay marriage.
I had concluded that as long as the union wasn't seen as a religious ceremony, with the word marriage, no big deal.
But, you know, things change.
With the recent death of Jerry Falwell, and the subsequent damn near rejoicing and celebrations of the gay community even while they were putting the guy 6 feet under, I came to see issues differently.
I now will NEVER vote for ANY type of gay marital type union period. Of any form or nature. Why should I? Why? I should bend my values for a group of people that dance with glee because this man died? I wasn't a follower of the guy, I thought he was a buffoon, but the gay reaction was intolerable.
They showed their true colors as far as I'm concerned. Their attitudes and actions reminded me of a bunch of bonobos if you ask me. A bunch of Rosie O'Bonobos if you will.
My vote, my American right. Just say "NO" is my chant to the gay community from now on.
Possibly the next time the gay movement wants to change the founding institution between a man and a woman in this country they might want to shut their yaps when a staunch proponent of said institution dies.
I hold little hope of that happening though to be honest.
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