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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Feb 17, 2009 21:40:58 GMT -5
From what I've read elsewhere, people tend to prefer what they've learned on, so opinions on what is "best" vary.
As for the blades, you might just have to try them and see. Kingsley North is a reputable company. A number of people like the Barranca/MK blades. I recently ordered one from John at JSGems (he posts here regularly).
The thickness of the blade you need depends on what you're cutting. Agate, jasper, etc. can be cut with a thicker blade because it's not particularly valuable. Opals and other expensive stone should be cut with thinner blades so that you don't lose as much.
Dr. Joe usually knows what he's talking about ;D, so I would trust his advice.
Chuck
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 17, 2009 22:13:00 GMT -5
Thanks Chuck for your reply! One question, if a thinner blad produces less waste, why not just use it for everything? Do they not last as long or something? I'll post a pic soon of what the lap looks like so far Chris
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Post by akansan on Feb 17, 2009 22:28:46 GMT -5
You have to be more careful with thinner blades, as they are easier to bend. The thicker blades have more waste, but they also can take a lot more abuse.
Other thoughts:
Diamonds are diamonds, no matter the brand name attached. There are a lot of decent quality products on the market these days that aren't sold by Kingsley North, and the Rock Lady products appear to be one of them. The Jadecarver wheels are technically no-name, and yet they run wonderfully. You can turn out quality pieces on no-name products, so I wouldn't be afraid of trying something that's been recommended here. Now, if it hadn't been recommended, I would be hesitant to try!
Cushion backed laps do make it easier to get the correct shape on a cab. I know that Sparkles posted a solution he came up with for his laps to do just that. The last stages on a wheel are also against "soft" wheels to allow you to push a little to get the sanding just right.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 18, 2009 2:29:51 GMT -5
Thanks akansan, I appreciate the info, I just want to ensure that when I start "forking over" any money for stuff, it's gonna be worth it in the end, and not a waste! I've got another question, this time about the motor hookup, I'm actually an electronics tech, but something isn't making sense to me about the motor wire connections. I've purchased a surplus 3 speed reversable motor, it's only 1075RPM as opposed to my other 1700 some odd RPM furnace motor I first intended on using. It just made sense to use a 3 speed motor that can be controlled via the voltage to certain wires as opposed to creating a pully system which has to be changed in order to acheive a different speed (reduction) or by having to either purchase or build a motor speed controller to do the job. First of all, is 1075 RPM a suitible speed for cabbing and such? I never did get an "optimal" speed recommendation from anyone, so I was wondering if this motor was too slow. So anyhow, here is the issue, the motor is currently "hardwired" to the "fastest" wire right now, or what I assume will give the fastest RPM. (white to white, black to black) See the motor specs and pinout wire diagram pasted below: I hope I posted the image correctly, I don't see an "insert" button here where you can "upload" an image. anyhow, by looking at the wiring diagram, i would assume the "white" wire is always connected, while I would connect the "black" motor wire to the household "black" HOT wire if I want full speed, or I would connect the "blue" motor wire to the household "black" HOT wire if I want medium speed, and I would connect the motor "red" wire to the household "black" HOT wire if I want low speed, does this sound correct to you guys? Well, i "thought" it sounded correct to me, so I did that, but when i "switch" the wires I'm connecting to the household "black" HOT wire ("either" the black, blue, or red motor wires, connecting only one of them, (leaving the other 2 of the 3 motor wires disconnected) at a time to the black household HOT wire, the motor speed does NOT change at all! Is it saying to connect more than one of the black, blue or red motor wires to the black hot household wire at the same time? That doesn't make sense to me to do, but what I've done does not work either, so does anyone out there have a clue how to adjust the 3 speed motor speeds using these 3 lead wires? I thought it would be simple, just attach either the black, blue or red wire to the household HOT black wire, while leaving the white household and white motor wires conected constantly, and it would change speeds, but that doesn't work, and I'm stumped! What am I missing here? Is it something TOTALLY obvious?? Hope someone out there casn help me with this one, I'm really confused! Thanks! Chris PS, here's the lap so far, with a micky mouse peel and stick paper on a grinding wheeel...lol. Once I put a REAL wheel on it, then "properly" wire it and actually build the control panel for it, I'll be in business hopefully! It's a router table, motor, oil drain pan, and other misc parts to make it all fit together! Yes, that's an old saw blade used as a stablilizer plate for the bottom of the lap....lol.
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 18, 2009 2:37:17 GMT -5
Here's another motor sticker picture with asll the info this time, i realize the previous one cut off some of the info. It wouldn't be something stupid like the blue and red wires are supposed to be tied to "ground" to slow the thing down would it? I just "assumed" theblue and the red wires would also connect to the household black HOT wire just like the "fast black" speed control wire on the motor would to adjust the speed. I'm confuseded...lol
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Post by akansan on Feb 18, 2009 10:01:55 GMT -5
I don't know much about motors, but the comment on the label to insulate unused lead wires individually tells me the remaining two are NOT supposed to be tied together.
The recommended speed I've always heard for a grinding machine is 1750 RPMs. But I've also heard the flat laps should go slower than that. I know, not much help.
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Feb 18, 2009 12:32:56 GMT -5
I guess you might not take this as a recommendation, but, in my previous post I said "You don't need a speed control if you can preset the units speed, most equipment is set to 1750 ish RPM's."
Your hooking it up right, has it occurred to you yet that "I've purchased a surplus 3 speed reversable motor" could be the problem?
Nice job on the flat lap too. Are the sides high enough? And are you draining into the container?
Dr Joe
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 18, 2009 12:48:10 GMT -5
Hi there, Are you saying I've got it hooked up right, but because it's "surplus" you feel it might be defective? It is guarenteed working 100%, they have a bunch of them, it's not like they are equipment pulls, they are brand new, so I'd be surprised if it was defective, but ya never know do you! The motor does get VERY hot when in use, too hot to actually touch without burning your fingers after 5 minuts running or so, is that normal? There is no splashing anywhere, so the sides must be high enough, it is drained, there is a tube leading from the drain in the bottom, none of this is actually finished yet, there will be a tank and recirculating pump as well, but I just really need to ensure the wireing is correct before I commit to hardwiring everything and mounting the controls. I was told by the opalsmith guy that 1750 RPM's was too high to "comfortably" do opal cabs and you would have to crank down the speed, so what do you guys suggest? Full speed 1750 RPM's, or 1075 RPM's with the speed control if I EVER get it working? Where "should" I connect those red and blue wires?? Thanks Chris
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 18, 2009 20:16:18 GMT -5
Anyone have ANY ideas about the wiring of this motor? Should I switch it BACK to the 1750 RPM motor???
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 19, 2009 10:06:32 GMT -5
Yup, I tested it again, the white motor wire is connected to the white (neutural) wall outlet wire, the black motor wire is connected to the black (hot) household wire, which is supposed to be "full speed", (I have no way to measure RPM's either, I'm going by sound and "feel" of the spinning shaft), and when i detach the black motor wire from the black household (hot) wire, and connect the slowest setting, the red motor wire to the black household (hot) wire, it does not change speeds at all. It seems to be running at the same speed as when I had the black motor wire connected to the black (hot) household wire. Does this mean there is something wrong with the motor, or as I not doing something correctly? I just want to know if I'm hooking the darn thing up right or not, doesn't anyone out there know if this is the right way to hook it up? At least if I knew that much I could troubleshoot further from there, but I'm just not sure about the hookup, and I cannot seem to find anything more on the web about it!
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Post by akansan on Feb 19, 2009 10:55:07 GMT -5
From my own limited experience with wiring motors, I'd say you are hooking it up correctly, and if the RPMs aren't changing, then there's something wrong with the motor.
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Feb 19, 2009 16:00:23 GMT -5
What does your opalsmith have to say about it? ;D
Hard Rock Cafe, Chuck could you tell cooknet that the hookup is right and the reason for it being so hot is obviously stated on the label "AIR OVER CONT ", this motor is meant to be in the direct airflow to cool it, if it was run too long at extended temps that could have damaged the windings.
Thanks for the relay.
Dr Joe
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Feb 19, 2009 19:03:50 GMT -5
Did a search on "three speed motor wiring" and according to what I read, each color should give a different speed. Do you have the capacitor hooked up between the brown and brown/white wires? Don't know if that would affect speed or not. You might also do a continuity check across the different colored wires and see if you get any change in resistance. Of course, I don't know the proper values, but you should get some variation. This diagram should also help clarify things. Not exactly your motor but close enough: www.jimdow.com/jimdow/sales/diagrams/0533motorjpg.jpgHope that helps, Chuck
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 21, 2009 19:59:32 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for your replies, I really appreciate your help, especially the diagram Chuck. FYI drjo, I did not ask the "opalsmith" about the wiring issue, I only "bothered" him initially for some advice about what wheels, grits ect to use. I had a feeling I may have "rubbed" someone the wrong way by mentioning someone elses opinion or advice, so if I did, I truly apologize, I meant no disrespect to anyone here, and must let everyone know that I really do truly appreciate anyone's efforts to share information with me to help me get started, I"m not the best person with words, so sometimes I may give the wrong impression about trying to "compare" information in my attempt to understand why people have suggested what they have. I guess my motor is screwed, I tested it immediately as per the correct wiring (as I wired it the way in the diagram supplied here) si I know I at least didn't damage the windingd, but some other guy might have fried it like that as it is a "surplus" used motor afterall, even though I was told it worked perfectly. I have another couple motors, both are 1750 RPM's, and i bought a speed controller at Princess Auto, but I remember someone here saying something about "light dimmers" being hard on the motors, the unit i purchased for $25 looks just like a light dimmer, and I think it contains triacs to make it work, but the guy at Princess auto said it would not harm the motor. Do you guys think it will be ok? What is the difference between this 5-10A motor speed controller and a light dimmer in terms of how it effects the motor? Thanks agian all, and again, I cannot say enough how much I really appreciate people's advice, and I apologize if I ever sounded like I did not in my attempts to understand more than one suggestion! I STILL don't really understand the difference between a super thin blade and a thicker sintered diamond blade, why go with a thicker blade that "wasts" more precious material when you can buy a thinner blade which is actually cheaper? Will the thicker blade "last longer"? Thanks all! Chris
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 22, 2009 13:04:39 GMT -5
I replaced the motor now with a 1725 RPM one, and added the speed controller, which looks like a "dimmer switch" to me, but upon doing so, it didn't work, so I opened it up to find it was FRIED inside...lol. Someone obviously returned it to the store, and it ended up back on the shelf to be resold somehow, and just my luck to get it, geesh! Once I return it for one that "actually" works, I'll be able to see how it does, but I still would like to know "why" these types of controllers are bad for motors, and if it's these types of motor controllers (actually made for a blower motor) are "hard" on the motor, or if it's ONLY the "dimmer switches" which are actually made for light dimming that are bad for the motors. I guess I'm wondering if the "motor controller" is different somehow from a light dimmer, and if it's "safe" for the motor, and if not, "why". Thanks all in advance for your info!! Chris
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Feb 22, 2009 15:25:18 GMT -5
I have no clue on the dimmers. Never used one.
I think the thicker blades last longer on harder rock (like agate, jasper, etc.). Opal is not as hard and therefore should be easier on the blade.
Chuck
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rockbottom
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2008
Posts: 117
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Post by rockbottom on Feb 22, 2009 18:06:12 GMT -5
Chris, a motor can't be variable speed unless it was built to be variable. You can't just put a rheostat on a single speed and make it variable. They have to be wired variable. Most variable motors are brushed dc motors.
A 3 speed motor can't be variable either, it has to go by a 3 step switch.
Hope I didn't make this too confusing.
Bob
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 24, 2009 17:27:01 GMT -5
Thanks Chuck and Bob, I appreciate your feedback! I'm a bit confused about the "variable speed" motor thing though, I was told by the guy at the surplus store where I bought the motor that the "blower fan motor speed controller" would definitely slow down the motor. Maybe they have no idea what they're talking about, I dunno! Anyhow, here is a picture of my recent progress, any suggestions are welcome of course!! There is just a temporary "peel and stick" polishing wheel on there until I get a "real" set of disks, then I'll be able to actually "do" something with this thing! Thanks again for the input, I REALLY appreciate it! Chris
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cooknet
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2009
Posts: 169
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Post by cooknet on Feb 24, 2009 18:57:39 GMT -5
Yeah I know, it's UGLY, but it works! Well, I "think" it does anyhow.....LOL
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Wolfden
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2007
Posts: 1,368
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Post by Wolfden on Feb 24, 2009 19:17:24 GMT -5
Dang thats a great little setup good job cook
Wolf
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