SteveHolmes
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2009
Posts: 1,900
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Post by SteveHolmes on Mar 7, 2009 22:47:53 GMT -5
Will I ever learn?!?!  I bought two Leather Pads for my Genie along with 14,000 and 50,000 grit diamond paste. I have asked and probably been answered to these questions a hundred times...and now I'm thinking I'm actually getting the hang of it...I'm also not sure.  How often should I load the leather pads?? I actually do abut 3 or 4 cabs than add a few more drops and rub it in with my finger. I don't allow it time to dry...do I need to??? I also have the silicon spray that I use...and how ofetn should I spray it on the pads. Right now..it seems like I spray it every 3 or 4 cabs as well. Is it time to spray the silicon spray on when the stone starts grabbing/?? I'm just a little confused at the when should I add paste and when should I spray the silicon on the pad. Any Help would very much be appreciated! Thanks in Advance. Steve |
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49er
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since February 2008
Posts: 753
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Post by 49er on Mar 8, 2009 2:32:14 GMT -5
You said you purchased two different grits of polish.
Are you using two different pads?
What type of speed are you using?
Have you just tired water to first wet you paste?
Does Genie provide a non-abrasive wheel? Used to apply diamond paste for polishing.
49er
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 8, 2009 9:55:11 GMT -5
49er, th Genie has a 1/4" x 20 threaded hole in the right shaft end to use spin on polish pads, no hole laps, etc. Steve has a separate pad for each diamond mesh and the Genie runs 1725 RPM. Diamond Pacific recommends using silicon extender with diamond compound.
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 8, 2009 10:01:57 GMT -5
Steve, I think you can respray the extender when the pad gets too dry (pulling, getting too hot, etc.). I would start with 5 or 6 drops compound and work well into pad surface with finger and stone. I wouldn't add more until you notice performance is less than it was to start with.
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Post by MrP on Mar 8, 2009 10:43:04 GMT -5
Just wondering
Is leather or canvas better with diamond paste?
If leather then smooth or rough face?
Thank you......MrP
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Post by stoner on Mar 8, 2009 13:28:42 GMT -5
Well, I told you I was going to be breaking in a new belt myself Steve, and I share your frustration!!!! I've been using my old belt for about 4 years now and I had forgotten how I hated the leather and diamond paste when I first started using it. My new belt is rough and the paste and silicon are soaking into the leather and not doing a thing. So it looks like I'm going to be going through a learning curve all over again. I'll keep you posted as I go, but at this point, it looks as though I've got a lot of breaking in to do to get the belt smoothed out to the point of accepting the paste.
So to answer your question MrP, smooth leather would be better. My old belt is smoother than a baby's butt and the cabs polish up nicely on it. The problem is that my old belt is coming apart and the leather is very thin. I'll be back when I learn more.
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SteveHolmes
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2009
Posts: 1,900
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Post by SteveHolmes on Mar 8, 2009 13:36:54 GMT -5
Thanks you Guys! I'll be waiting to hear how it's going Ed. I guess I'll just keep plugging along and doing my thing. Should the paste be coming off the pad on the face of the cabochon ...or should it be staying on the pad??
Steve
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Post by MrP on Mar 8, 2009 15:25:24 GMT -5
Steve
You don't need very much diamond paste on the canvas or leather. I have been using it on canvas and was thinking I might like leather better. You said you spray every 3-4 cabs and that is about what I do. I probably do 150 cabs before I have to add a dab of paste. That stuff cost too much to use as face cream ;D.........MrP
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 8, 2009 16:07:37 GMT -5
Stoner, isn't your belt flexible enough to turn outside in? Pads always have the smooth tanned outside surface and the inside rough surface. It seem like your belt should be smooth inside if the outside is rough. Like the others I can't find belts in stock anywhere so I don't really know.
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fisherman510
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2008
Posts: 113
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Post by fisherman510 on Mar 8, 2009 17:31:17 GMT -5
I have been cabbing on an Ameritool, which does a great job, except for having to change the pads all the time. So, I bite the bullet an ordered a Genie from JS Gems. Should be in next week. I'm drooling all ready. I had tried setting up a couple of cloth pads on a 1725 rpm bench grinder to polish with 50000 and 100000 grit paste, but had poor results. Got to thinking. I have a Kalamazoo 1"x42" belt sander that has a 1725 rpm motor. I think one of the leather belts, turned it inside out and put a couple of onces of 50000 grit paste on it. Lot of paste came off on the stone, so I let it dry. Looks like it will work great. I don't remember just where I got the leather belts, but I see some listed at www.jantzsupply.comBob |
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Post by mohs on Mar 8, 2009 18:59:46 GMT -5
that's a fine piece of machinery Bob!
so versatile
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Post by parfive on Mar 8, 2009 23:49:03 GMT -5
Leather polishing discs from Kingsley come either rough both sides or one side smooth, one side rough.
I glued the rough side to the head and polish on the smooth side.
Btw, nobody on the planet can finish a cab any better than John Schmitt (Bear Creek), and he doesn’t use diamond paste. Bobby1’s setup - carpet wheel w/cerium oxide - is comparable to John’s methods.
Rich
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Post by akansan on Mar 9, 2009 9:29:49 GMT -5
When I was first breaking in my old leather polish head, I used the rough side. I had to de-furr the thing with an agate slab pressed fairly firmly into the leather. Once it was broken in, I got great results. Until then, I preferred my resin belts over the leather.
I use the silicon spray once or twice a cabbing session. That would be about every 4 cabs. The paste I apply about every 50 cabs or so, or when I notice the pad is getting low (or the polish is changing).
I have a canvas pad on this current machine, and it's a little different. I'm leaning toward bobby1's polish setup over leather & diamond paste...
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Post by stoner on Mar 9, 2009 14:04:20 GMT -5
The leather belt is mounted on a mylar belt so there is no smooth side. I bought this belt from Sandsman about 3 years ago, when Raytech quit making them. I figured my old belt would finally bite the dust someday. To each his own, but for me, I just don't see a reason to deal with the mess of using oxide polishes. With a properly broken in belt or disc, the diamond polish gives as good or better a shine and a 5 gram syringe of the paste will last a LOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG time!
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SteveHolmes
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2009
Posts: 1,900
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Post by SteveHolmes on Mar 9, 2009 19:20:18 GMT -5
I guess I better quit giving my cabs such an expensive face cream. I have been putting about 4 little drops on the leather pad, rubbing it in, about every 4 or 5 cabs. It sounds like I have plenty of paste on the leather pad...I just have to spray the silicon spray on when it starts pulling my cabs. I was thinking it might be lack of paste...but NOPE! I'm LEARNING!! Thanks to you guys and gals!
Steve
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Post by BuiltonRock on Mar 11, 2009 16:05:39 GMT -5
Steve,
You are right! No need to add any more diamond at this point. Try putting a little extender fluid on each cab before you start.
John
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,980
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Post by khara on Oct 21, 2022 19:49:27 GMT -5
Leather polishing discs from Kingsley come either rough both sides or one side smooth, one side rough. I glued the rough side to the head and polish on the smooth side. Btw, nobody on the planet can finish a cab any better than John Schmitt (Bear Creek), and he doesn’t use diamond paste. Bobby1’s setup - carpet wheel w/cerium oxide - is comparable to John’s methods. Rich Super old thread, but it's what I'm researching. I am mostly seeing that people think they get the best cab polishing results (with the oxides, not diamond paste) using the smooth side of leather. Occasionally I see someone mention they use rough side and get great results, but mostly the votes are for smooth. So, I'm confused by the carpet comment and your use of smooth side. It seems carpet would be more akin to the rough side of leather... What do you think 13 years later? |
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Oct 22, 2022 8:58:24 GMT -5
No one else jumping in here, so I'll throw a couple of things at ya'.
For leathers, consider how "deep" the fibers (or nap) are compared to other types of pads. Canvas was a commonly used material years ago, and some of the later polishing pads have a similar surface. Overall pretty smooth, which puts a lot more surface area in contact with the stone surface. The rough side of a leather has lots of space between the fibers compared to that.
Outdoor carpet (bobby1) and felt have smaller fibers which are closer together and which will compress down to a "smoother" surface. Smooth side of a leather also puts more of your polishing compound in contact with the stone at any given time. Smooth side of an elk hide is really soft and it conforms easily to your cab profile. The felt and carpet will also conform nicely to your cab dome.
If you use a pad that has longer fibers with aluminum oxide, be careful of soft stones. Longer fibers can clump together and the AlOx (Mohs 9) can actually cause ripples in the surface of a soft stone. I learned that with opal.
Longer fibers on polishing pads with diamond allow some of the diamond to sink down to where they don't help. Takes more to charge the pad.
Hope that gives you a new perspective on this very old question. (As old as lapidary work itself - that's why older books have so many polishing options in them.)
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,980
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Post by khara on Oct 22, 2022 13:30:42 GMT -5
No one else jumping in here, so I'll throw a couple of things at ya'.
For leathers, consider how "deep" the fibers (or nap) are compared to other types of pads. Canvas was a commonly used material years ago, and some of the later polishing pads have a similar surface. Overall pretty smooth, which puts a lot more surface area in contact with the stone surface. The rough side of a leather has lots of space between the fibers compared to that.
Outdoor carpet (bobby1) and felt have smaller fibers which are closer together and which will compress down to a "smoother" surface. Smooth side of a leather also puts more of your polishing compound in contact with the stone at any given time. Smooth side of an elk hide is really soft and it conforms easily to your cab profile. The felt and carpet will also conform nicely to your cab dome.
If you use a pad that has longer fibers with aluminum oxide, be careful of soft stones. Longer fibers can clump together and the AlOx (Mohs 9) can actually cause ripples in the surface of a soft stone. I learned that with opal.
Longer fibers on polishing pads with diamond allow some of the diamond to sink down to where they don't help. Takes more to charge the pad.
Hope that gives you a new perspective on this very old question. (As old as lapidary work itself - that's why older books have so many polishing options in them.)
Oh wow, thank you. I don't know why but for some reason it just seemed like "floppy" or clumpy would be better for polishing compounds. I guess maybe from seeing the big floppy car polishing buffing wheels or the old school arbor floppy muslin (or whatever they were) wheels. But your comment about more surface area being contacted makes sense. I also had no clue about the hardness of these compounds (aluminum oxide being a Mohs 9!) That makes total sense. I never realized. I just have a chart of what compounds work on what stones. I got that from this forum over in the cabbing area. I guess I didn't really know why you'd use one over the other. The hardness makes sense. Duh. Someone else also mentioned that the rough side of leather seemed to be absorbing all their compound and they were having to add more. But, then on another site I got word that hard stones like agate did well with the rough side of leather. So... back and forth I kept going on the topic. Even though I'm seeing some mention of rough side, it seems most are in the smooth side camp whether using diamond or oxide compounds. Thank you again for your input! |
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 22, 2022 14:07:33 GMT -5
I use hard felt discs as my preferred pads for final polish on cabochons with cerium oxide on high silica materials like agate, jasper, petrified wood, quartz, etc.. I use aluminum oxide (also sold as Raybrite, Linde A, and Sapphire Powder) on a suede leather pad for the final polish on some of the softer materials like turquoise, malachite, Sonora sunrise, howlite, etc.. I've been doing it this way since the early 1970s.
For a while when I first switched from SC to diamond grinding and sanding mediums back in 1977 I tried the finer grades of diamond bort (8k, to 12k, to 50k) on canvas resin pads. But found that on most materials after 3k it was faster to use oxides and usually got better results with oxides on most materials. The only cabbing materials that I will use diamond polishing medium on is corundum, or anything that contains corundum like Ruby in Zoisite.
And I probably should mention that there is a difference between the rawhide leather pads and belts, and the suede leather pads and belts that have been sold for lapidary use. The suede pads and belts have a finer softer texture. And some suede pads that have been sold, like the ones that Ebersol Rocks used to sell were often cut from garment or upholstery suede material and were finished on one side with dyes and lacquers. In these cases you would want to use the unfinished side which will be the rougher side.
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