Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 16, 2009 21:06:06 GMT -5
Hello fellow tumblers! I have once again reached the polish stage for my first batch of beach rocks. I am using a TV-5 vibratory tumbler, and will be using AO polish. The stones vary in size, with plenty of small pebbles to make it a full load. Before I begin the polish stage (wanna do it right this time), I have a few questions:
1. Do I add any tile spacers or non-abrasive ceramic media to the batch? (I already bought both)
2. Some of the stones have slight cracks and pits in them. The pits are about the size of the tip of a sharpened pencil. The crack are of about the same width. Will this ruin the entire batch? I really love these particular stones, and they have turned out nicely so far, other than the occasional pits and cracks.
3. My vibe holds approximately 4 pounds of rocks. What quantity of polish is best to use? I have read varying answers so I want to clarify.
Thank you again for all of your collective wisdom! Oh, and I have taken photos after each step. Once I take photos after the polish, I promise to post them - good or bad!!!
Thanks again, Erica
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firstrune
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2009
Posts: 156
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Post by firstrune on Jun 16, 2009 22:41:17 GMT -5
Hi Erica, you'll get much more expert advice than I can offer, but I will relay my experience with the same brand of tumbler, the TV5. I did my first polish batch in one of these a couple of weeks ago, keep in mind that I misinterpreted Bikerrandy's tutorial and added WAY too much polish and I ended up with lots of polish stuck in the pits and the cracks, much of it I could not remove. I came here seeking advice and one consistent piece of advice is the rocks almost need to be "perfect" before going into the vibe, no cracks or pits. So I think even had I used the correct measurements, I still may have had the same problems with polish filling the pits and cracks. I was also advised that a high pressure sprayer will help to remove some of the polish, but better to start with good rocks rather than try to fix them afterward. If the sight of polish ground into the cracks/pits doesn't really bother you, then you may be fine with proceeding, for me it was disappointing and frustrating as many of the rocks in there were favorites I'd babied through the rotaries.
Good Luck with your batch whatever you decide to do!
Bonnie
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Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 17, 2009 2:23:44 GMT -5
Hi Bonnie, I'm open to any advice or input, so thank you! I had read your post about your experience with polish becoming stuck in the pits & cracks. (by the way, I will be thrilled if my rocks come out like yours). I'm trying to find out if there are other negative consequences to be had by including these imperfect stones to the polish batch... such as preventing the perfect stones in the batch from polishing.
I guess I was hoping to get some input before I ruin another batch. The very first batch I attempted turned out to be a total disaster. I had followed the instructions that came with the vibe which said to start out with the 60/90 grit for several days.... Well my first batch of rocks all but disappeared. They became so small that I threw them away. This batch has already gone through a polish stage with cerium oxide, but did not polish well at all, so I am anxious to find the correct answers!
Thanks again for your response! I really appreciate it!
Erica
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jun 17, 2009 6:28:00 GMT -5
60/90? Check the instructions to see if it says "for rotary tumblers", 60/90 is too coarse for vibes because they are more aggressive and the 60/90 will wear out the bowl really fast. 120/220 is the coarse stage for a vibe.
The biggest problem with tumbling rocks that are cracked and pitted is the grit from the first two stages can get imbedded in there are contaminate your polish stage. I would pick those rocks out and save them for the next batch so that running them through the coarse stage again may remove these imperfections. Have you ran them through Borax yet? The biggest thing that helps me is to do a Borax stage between the fine grit and polish stages, this will remove the grit from the first two stages and you'll get better results. Good luck, post pics!!
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Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 17, 2009 19:38:01 GMT -5
Hi Randy, I checked the Raytech instruction sheet that came with my vibe. Interestingly, an additional column of instructions had been hand written on the sheet, which included using 60/90 for step 1. I am assuming they were added by the shop who sold me the vibe? They had also recommended I buy one of their "Grit Kits", which included the 60/90, the 120/220, the 500, and the polish. Oh well, guess I learned that one the hard way... now I know what that turquoise blue stuff in the 60/90 sludge was... part of my bowl...
THANK YOU for reminding me of the Borax stage... the first post I ever read on this board was the one you wrote on vibe instructions. I had even printed them out. I felt accomplished even being able to find Borax. And photos coming soon...
Erica
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jun 18, 2009 2:06:36 GMT -5
Hi Erica,
I do the Borax / Burnishing stage 12 to 24 hours like Randy just before I put them into 1000g (1/2 Teaspoon) as after that tripoli (1/2Teaspoon) and the polishes (1/2 Teaspoon) are added without washing in between these additions (Connrock's 3 1/2 lb Lot"O" Recepie)
after this Washing / Borax run they have a good shine on already and the water taken out is very dirty, Its well worth the trouble to get the gloss shine
Stick to Randys Recepie (for Now) and you wont go wrong he produces some great finishes
You can always experiment with other systems and recipies when you get the Gloss finish and confidence
Jack
Yorkshire uk
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
Posts: 1,081
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Post by MikeS on Jun 18, 2009 8:47:16 GMT -5
good advice from all... as for the spacers/ceramic media, you can use them to fill the vibe to 2/3 - 3/4 full if you don't have enough material, or if you are working with a brittle or soft material you want to cushion. 60/90 is a bit too coarse for a vibe...it tends to settle out and gum up at the bottom, it's not very effective in a vibe. As for the cracks and pits, that kind of boils down to personal preference...some people like a more "natural" appearance on their stones and don't shape them down as much. As for contamination from one grit to another, this can usually be avoided by vibrating each grit until it is entirely broke down, a good cleaning of the stones between grits (I tend to inspect each one). You can use an electric toothbrush to clean the cracks and pits. Polish...I'd say no more than 1/2 teaspoon. Again, you can use an electric toothbrush to clean any remaining polish out of the cracks and pits, it works suprisingly well. Burnish- I tend to get better results using ivory bar soap shavings than borax...it seems to clean and buff better and I get better action in the vibe with it, but again, this is a matter of personal prefference. Nice thing about this hobby is that it's hard to "ruin" rocks, so feel free to experiment a bit until you find practices that work for you...  |
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Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 18, 2009 10:56:58 GMT -5
I apologize if I missed it, but how much Borax is used for the stage between the 500 & the polish?
I have a nice chunk of free time right now & wanted to start the Borax. I am using a 4.5 pound capacity vibe.
THANK YOU!
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Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 18, 2009 11:16:46 GMT -5
Randy - Your vibe recipe has become my official instruction manual. One question - what is the capacity of the vibe you use?
Jack - Thanks for the specifics on the polish. I saved them for future experimentation. Interesting that the water from the pre-polish Borax stage comes out very dirty. I got a visual. Just stresses the importance of that stage. I'm striving for that gloss and shine!
Mike - Right on! I hadn't thought of an electric toothbrush. Good tip. Thanks. I had to laugh when I read your last sentence that it's hard to ruin rocks. I, the mad scientist, would be the exception to that, as I have already blown up a rock in the microwave, obliterated a nice batch with 60/90, and have a whole box of rocks with a stubborn waxy residue from my pre-tumbling experimentation! Nice huh?
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jun 18, 2009 15:01:43 GMT -5
I'm using a UV-10 (10 pound capacity). For the Borax and the polish stages, try one heaping tablespoon. Too much polish and you'll end up with a thick gooey milkshake. Once the rocks start moving, you won't need to check in on them as much as you do in the grit stages, since you won't be making any slurry.
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firstrune
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2009
Posts: 156
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Post by firstrune on Jun 18, 2009 20:03:35 GMT -5
Erica, you've received some really good advice here and I wish I could be more help, but I'm still very much in the novice stage as the vibe is concerned, and not too much out of novice with the rotaries.  But I do wish you good luck with your first batch!! Please post pics when you're done, I'd love to see them. I'll be running my second vibe batch probably this weekend, I did get the ceramic pellets and want to try it with those. I'll post pics over in photos when it's finished. Bonnie |
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MikeS
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2009
Posts: 1,081
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Post by MikeS on Jun 18, 2009 20:20:14 GMT -5
I, the mad scientist, would be the exception to that, as I have already blown up a rock in the microwave Whoa....be careful with that! I gotta ask, why were you microwaving a rock? |
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Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 18, 2009 22:29:33 GMT -5
Yeah baby! Gotta give it to that mule team! Just finished the "Borax + a Little Polish Before the Main Polish" stage, and boy did it do wonders. I'm not sure what it did, but all I know is that the colors & patterns in my rocks look so much more vivid. They came to life! Dry even! I think they are finally ready for the main polish. I had been worried about further crackage so in addition to the Borax, little bit of polish, & water sprays, I added some tile spacers to the mix. Upon initial examination after this Borax run, I haven't found any additional cracks or pits, so looks like the tile spacers (i should say fresh, new tile spacers) will be going into the main polish stage. I'm really excited!! Thanks to all of you!!
Hi Bonnie, your good wishes help, believe me! We're in this together! I think we have the same vibe too. The Raytech TV-5 right? I expect to have my first batch done this weekend too. Looking forward to the "posting photos" stage! By the way, your first batch turned out really nicely!
OK mikes, so here's the deal on the microwave incident... Keep in mind this was in my "Pre-Tumbling" days. I was intent on finding a way of giving my beach rocks a permanent 'wet look'. I tried everything from clear nail polish to furniture polish to even some airplane polish I found in the garage. Wasn't happening. It then occurred to me that apples are waxed, so why not beach rocks? The best wax I had around the house at the time was some of those white tea candles. So I took one and began applying it to some rocks in the same manner one would color with a crayon. Then I just had to heat up the rock enough to melt the wax coating. I figured the fastest way would be the microwave. It actually worked on the first two. So, I'm thinking I'm really on to something and loaded up a couple more. It couldn't have been more than a minute when I heard a very loud "Kaboom". My husband was on a business call in our home office at the time, so you can imagine how I cringed. "Yes, everything's fine honey, everything's fine". I went to inspect the damage, and surprisingly, everything was fine, all except for one rock. It was literally scattered in little bits all over the microwave. It was quite a sight, and I did take a picture of it. Don't try this at home. Needless to say, my husband bought me a rock tumbler for my birthday...
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Post by NatureNut on Jun 18, 2009 22:44:20 GMT -5
Sounds like it's going well, Erica. Looking forward to the pics! Jo
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jun 18, 2009 22:52:36 GMT -5
Yes, pics!! 143 members in the last 24 hours, somebody post pics!! lol
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jun 19, 2009 2:56:59 GMT -5
Hi
Sorry ! Yes Ivory in the Burnishing run I forgot that
Jack
Yorkshire uk
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Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 20, 2009 20:33:43 GMT -5
Thanks Jack!
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firstrune
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2009
Posts: 156
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Post by firstrune on Jun 20, 2009 23:22:01 GMT -5
Hi Erica, yes we have the same vibe! Raytech V-5. Thank you for your kind comments about my first batch, I have to admit I was disappointed, but I think my expectations were not realistic, as I'd never seen a batch done in a vibe, all my experience was in rotaries. I am almost finished with my second try at this, and hope to post pics by the end of the weekend. I'm hoping we'll be both be happy and grinning with the results. I loved your rock in the microwave story. How funny! Looking forward to your pics Erica!! Bonnie |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2009 9:38:02 GMT -5
Greeting Erica, firstly let me welcome you to our ever increasing family of stone-snagger & those in the pursuit of a perfect natural varnish that does not wash off! 1: Yes as both filler & to cushion. 2: Pits 1st clean them out, then fill them with either super-glue, epoxy-resin or clear wood varnish. Cracks; reject them back to stage 1 or cut or grind the bad bits out with a dremel with diamond / Silicon carbide wheels, drill or saw; use stepped grades over the area in order to return back to the polish stage. 3: There is no single polish that does all stones, however Tin-Ox & Alu-Ox are general purpose for most hard & soft stones, 0.3 micron grade Alu-Ox (Lindi-A brand) or lower grades can polish stones that the standard Alu-Ox polish grade cannot, i was looking for Lindi-A myself in February, Covington Engineering have recently reduced Lindi-A from $20 per oz (1970's price) to $8.20 per oz, but the availability of no-brand 0.1 - 0.3 micron Alu-Ox polish in the USA would get you about 3lbs for $8.20. The 1oz pack of Lindi-A (brown Alu-Ox polish) i bought in 1972 cost £18 & it lasted until 1981 & it had polished around 200lbs of stones on both flat-lapping & faceting freehand by hand on plate glass & in my school's rotary tumblers. -- I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from this monstrosity! Sticky's: Vendors worldwide, How to identify rocks & minerals!, FAQS: Add Tags:Save money on expensive grits & polishes! |
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Good Vibrations
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Overanalysis leads to Paralysis
Member since May 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by Good Vibrations on Jun 25, 2009 8:53:11 GMT -5
Andrew, thanks for the eloquently and accurately said welcome. That's cool. I'm a stone snagger, in a large family of other stone snaggers.
Thanks so much for the advice. I just started my second batch & followed your suggestions to prep the pits & cracks with epoxy or dremel. I am taking pictures of this batch from start to finish this time and will post the series here when completed.
The aluminum oxide polish I am using is called "TXP". I'm not sure what the micron grade is, but it does a much better job on my beach rocks than the cerium oxide did.
Thanks again! Erica
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But I do wish you good luck with your first batch!! Please post pics when you're done, I'd love to see them. 
