redwings1
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 45
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Post by redwings1 on Aug 20, 2009 7:54:01 GMT -5
...trying to get my first batch of beach granite/quartz to polish in my raytech tv5 vibe. Everything looked great through the #600. My 1st attempt at polish was cerium and the surface of my stones just got beat up real bad. So I put them back into the 600 to clean them back up, and it did, and decided to try a softer polish (1000 Al Ox) and added a few tablespoons of corn syrup for cushion. I also added a handful of ceramic pellets as the load had gotten smaller. I was pleased with the action of the rocks in the syrup, they were moving fast, yet smooth and sliding nicely. Disappointingly, after 3 days this had the same result. Battered surface finish...Not sure what to try next. So many questions at this point.
1) Am I using too little polish? 4# rock, 1/2# ceramic, 3 teaspoons
1000 aluminum ox...and the stones look nice and covered, can't see through the polish.
2) Is the corn syryp hurting the process in some way?
3) Is the ceramic just too hard to use with granite/quartz in the polish stage?
4) Maybe these materials just dont take a polish well...?
5) I'm just suffering from the 1st batch blues?
Thanks for any insight anyone can offer, you all have been most helpful with my past questions...
4)
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chassroc
Cave Dweller 
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Aug 20, 2009 7:59:22 GMT -5
Welcome to the group redwing.
You didn't mention what yo did before the 600 stage, perhaps we should start there/
Charlie
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Post by johnjsgems on Aug 20, 2009 8:52:34 GMT -5
Try 1/3-1/2 the mix small ceramic media. That will add more cushioning. Some beach rocks just don't cooperate.
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Post by johnjsgems on Aug 20, 2009 8:54:29 GMT -5
Also, 1000 Al Ox is a prepolish. For a polish you would need a much finer Al Ox. Submicron works better in a vibe on a broader range of material.
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Post by tkrueger3 on Aug 20, 2009 10:19:30 GMT -5
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redwings1
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 45
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Post by redwings1 on Aug 20, 2009 10:30:18 GMT -5
Charlie...found on the beach, they were pretty smooth to begin with so I started with 220 SiC for 2 days then 600 SiC for 2. I was confident they were ready, evaluating them when they were dry. Next I burnished them for 3 hours while I mowed, with 3 tablespoons of borax. Now at first they sounded like they were vibrating rough, like banging against eachother, so I kept adding water until they quieted down. Then into the polish, as described above.
John...so I am not even using the right stuff! this could explain some of my problem...get finer polish and smaller media...got it
Thanks fellas
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Aug 20, 2009 12:13:06 GMT -5
Too much water is also a no-no. You want them just damp enough for the rocks to move and the polish to stick. Vibes are very different from rotaries that way.
John is on the right track with more small media.
You should get a decent shine with AO1000, but not a glassy one like you get with a true polish. Cerium oxide generally works, so I would start with it and the other suggestions before buying another polish.
Hope
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redwings1
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 45
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Post by redwings1 on Aug 20, 2009 12:33:41 GMT -5
the only stage I add more than just a couple spritzes with the spray bottle is burnishing. Should I use just minimal water with the borax as well? It seems to get better action with extra water in this step...
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redwings1
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 45
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Post by redwings1 on Aug 20, 2009 12:54:14 GMT -5
So its back to the cerium and smaller media. If that doesn't do the trick, I even have some Raybrite i can try. To correctly identify the problem, my best guess is I am getting surface fractures so I need to cushion them more by using media small enough to get all in between the stones...based on everyones advice...thank you all...I'll start tonight.
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Post by MyNewHobby on Aug 20, 2009 15:33:51 GMT -5
Welcome RedWing!!
Don't feel bad ... I am still getting used to a vibe. They seem to have personalities all their own.
Listen to all the great input here, don't get discouraged, and keep your sense of humor.
Everything will turn out great when its time. Everyone has their own style and you will find yours.
Julie
ps ... for me one of things that I did constantly ... too much water. I thought it was helping. ;D
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ksk
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 69 
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Post by ksk on Aug 20, 2009 17:40:49 GMT -5
+1 for all of the previous advice. I would:
- replace the corn syrup with 2 pumps of softsoap with every grit change.
- run something between your 600 and polish. I run 150\200 SiC, 500f SiC, 800A0, and #61 Rapid Polish (submicron alumina).
- use plenty of mixed size ceramic filler. I run about 50% by weight throughout the entire process.
Good luck!
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Post by stonesthatrock on Aug 20, 2009 21:03:39 GMT -5
i follow randys, that works the best for me.
good luck
mary ann
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Aug 20, 2009 21:58:49 GMT -5
Redwings I mis-read what you said. More water in burnish is fine. In fact, you can just about fill the bowl if you want to.
Chuck
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Post by connrock on Aug 21, 2009 7:12:54 GMT -5
We talk about beach rocks a lot here and unless you are fortunate to live in an area in the world where the beach rocks are all solid dense agates and jasper they will always cause you problems.
Most beach rocks are made up of different compositions of rocks.Some hard and some soft.To make things even worse each individual rock can have several compositions within it itself.
I doubt VERY seriously that you can pick beach rocks,tumble them and have all of them shine for you.I'm not talking about a "semi-shine I'm talking about a wet look shine.
The rough stage can and does tell you a lot about which rocks will and will not polish.The harder rocks won't be worn nearly as much as the soft ones and the rocks that are made up of compositions of different rocks will mostly have "under cut" areas where the hard parts are sort of raised and the soft are
eroded".
There's nothing wrong with tumbling all of the above together but the soft and combo rocks won't polish up for you.
You have to either separate them (after inspecting them after a rough run) for separate runs or continue as is and be satisfied with the results from a mixed hardness load.
The beach rocks t'ger3 did were great looking rocks for beach rocks.
I wouldn't expect much more then he got.
connrock
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redwings1
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 45
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Post by redwings1 on Aug 21, 2009 14:08:39 GMT -5
This makes alot of sense to me from what I have witnessed in roughing several batches. I'm going to have to start paying closer attention to what is happening. You guys and gals are already saving me some time here, thanks.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Aug 21, 2009 17:17:10 GMT -5
Good points Tom (connrock). I got focused on the technical, not the practical.
Chuck
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 23:09:03 GMT -5
Greetings Redwings1, firstly may i offer my welcome to RTH. Can you confirm the amounts grit you used per F grade, also was that 1 single load for 2 days or did you recharge every 12 hours? Granite rarely polishes to a high gloss finish; more like a dull silky finish with Cer-Ox. Quartz will eventually polishes to a high gloss finish; but it takes it's time. Both Alu-Ox or Tin-Ox are general purpose polishes & will polish virtually all rocks on by using 1 or the other. You should never mix rocks of different hardness in any tumbler (Vibe or rotary) even if it is Moh's 6.5 & 7.0 in the same batch, however Moh's 6.0 - 6.5 or 7.0 - 7.5 is ok & so on. My Ancient Rotary Tumbler Recipes!My recipes will help too even with a vibe, the grit amounts are too much for a vibe, the polish amount is ok & it tells you what F grade you need to start with for each Moh's hardness zone. It is essential to have a mix of different sized stones that are smaller than the stones you wish to polish i tend to use the same crushed rock as i wish to polish in each & every stage; my sizing is "75%, 50%, 25%, 10% Coarse powder, Medium powder & fine powder" i use 4oz per LB of rock. See "Course Sanding" for a video. -- I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from this monstrosity! Sticky's: Vendors worldwide, How to identify rocks & minerals!, FAQS: Add Tags:Save money on expensive grits & polishes! |
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redwings1
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 45
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Post by redwings1 on Aug 22, 2009 14:03:48 GMT -5
to keep it simple, I have been using 2 teaspoons all the way through...220 and 600 SiC, 1000 Al Ox, and Cerium. (my vibe holds about 4 to 4.5 lbs comfortably) I can't say for sure, but 2 teaspoons seems to be adequate for all of these steps as it coats the stones nicely. When running the 220 SiC, I let it go until the slurry gets thick and the action won't speed back up with a couple spritzes from the water bottle. This is usually 1 to 1.5 days. I rinse them all off and if they need some more roughing I'll repeat. The 600 SiC can run 2 full days on the same grit and I have not had to repeat the 600 step. I feel pretty condifant with the SiC steps and now I think I'm starting to get an idea of what to do about my problems polishing. I will update as I establish a better routine!
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Post by connrock on Aug 23, 2009 6:56:51 GMT -5
'wings,,,
If you are running a Lot-O-Tumbler your wasting way too much grit after the rough stage.
Running 400,500,800,1000.Tripoli and polish ony requires 1/2 TEASPOONFUL OF EACH.Any more then that is just a waste!!!!!
PLEASE trust me!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Check this out
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redwings1
starting to shine!
Member since July 2009
Posts: 45
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Post by redwings1 on Aug 23, 2009 17:58:45 GMT -5
my machine is the raytech tv5 and holds about 4 to 4.5 lbs of stone and I would love to use less grit. Next time around I will try cutting the amount I have been using in half and see how that works. Over this weekend I tried adding a cup of 1/8" plastic beads and 2 pumps of soft soap and after 12 hours...viola! I noticed my stones are starting to shine up! The only thing I was a little dissappointed with is the action slowed right down to almost nothing and I blame the plastic beads. I want to use something different for media, small ceramic or glass marbles maybe. I truly believe the soft soap will provide adequate cushion whilst the harder media will not inhibite action. So many variables but I'm determined to get it right!
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