sford13
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2009
Posts: 119 
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Post by sford13 on Oct 5, 2009 7:59:30 GMT -5
Ok I have seen where alot of people say to have a barrel for each step. Well I have a Lortone rotarty with the double 3# barrels currently and just ordered a second one from The Rock Shed. So I am going to have 4 barrels. However since it seems to take alot more time in the course stage I figure I don't want to dedicate one barrel to each step. I understand that you want to keep from cross contamination. Also some where on the net, possibly even here, I saw where they were saying the pre-polish and polish were ok to do in the same barrel. The pre-polish I am using would be the 500 grit from the Rock Shed. Of course I would be washing the barrel and rock using a short borax cycle between the two.
So here is what I am thinking use two barrels for course grit only. Than use one barrel for medium. The forth barrel would be the pre-polish and polish stage. Or would you combine the medium and pre-polich in one barrel and keep one that was solely a polish barrel? Looking for advice on which two steps to share a barrel.
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 5, 2009 9:07:18 GMT -5
Your "prepolish, 500" is really a fine grit and would be better combined with a grit step. Leave polish barrel just for polish. If you try soft material some day you will need an extra actual prepolish like tripoli or 1200 aluminum oxide. That one can be done in the polish barrel. You are on the right track having two step one barrels to supply a good step two culling only the best to move on.
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Post by 150FromFundy on Oct 5, 2009 14:20:54 GMT -5
If you can not afford to have a dedicated barrel for every stage, have a dedicated barrel for your polish. Small 3 lb rotary barrels are reasonable affordable at about $15 each. Larger barrels for a vibe tumbler are a little more expensive at about $75 each. Most people with vibe tumblers only have two barrels. One for grit and one for polish.
Only polish should be used in the "polish barrel". 500 grit, or 500F grit, or even 1000 grit are still grit, so don't contaminate you polish barrel with anything other than polish.
Some will say that different polishes require different barrels. If you generally use AO for a polish, use only AO in your polish barrel. CO, TO, Tripoli and others should have their own barrel. This may be overkill. I use only AO to keep things simple.
Darryl.
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sford13
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2009
Posts: 119
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Post by sford13 on Oct 5, 2009 14:27:17 GMT -5
Well at this point the best deal I have seen for my barrels is $22 plus S&H and that is from the Rock Shed. But with just starting up and grit and rock cost and all I am going to have to have the barrels share some stages. But looks like I will have the medium and fine grit share and have dedicated coarse and polish barrels.
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Post by connrock on Oct 6, 2009 4:44:09 GMT -5
I really don't see the need for a barrel for every step.
Two barrels work just fine.
One is for rough through pre-polish and one is dedicated for polish.
my reasoning is that grit breaks down in 1/2 in about every 7-10 days in a rotary tumbler.
so,,,if you start with 60/90 grit it will actually be 120/180 in a week or so.
the cross contamination problem exists mostly in rocks with flaws in them.the original grit (60/90) can get trapped in the flaws and then remove itself further down the line.
this being said,,,,,
you may have 10 barrels but that piece of grit (60/90) may stay put until the 10th barrel is being used!!!
A good washing between grit stages is just fine.
my thoughts,,,,,
connrock
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 6, 2009 10:07:43 GMT -5
Brave man, Connrock. Here comes the storm. I've never had a polish barrel but can see the value. If you grind out the crevices or don't move bad rocks on there isn't much chance of grit contaminating further steps after a good wash. Now let's sit back and watch the fur fly.
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Post by Toad on Oct 6, 2009 10:16:06 GMT -5
I'm of the same opinion John. It takes extra time and effort, but I examine all my stones for crevices, pits, and other irregularities. They don't move to the next step unless smooth. That said, after the 60/90 step, I rarely have any problems. If a stone breaks or develops an irregularity, it goes back to 60/90.
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Oct 6, 2009 12:03:24 GMT -5
Yep, I'm quick to reject a stone in a batch ready for polish if it has crevices that may have some grit hitch hikers. I call them trouble makers. I keep a bucket by my washout sink for what I call tumbler food. The stones in that bucket are for rough grinding. When I'm cleaning out my vibes and I find a trouble maker or a stone that has chipped it goes in that bucket along with pieces from cutting slabs to later be put into the rough grind barrels.
Any stones that have crevices stay in the tumbler barrels where I do my rough grinding (60/90) until the crevices are gone. Some stone never get all the crevices out and are destined to be what I call a "worker stone" in that they stay in the barrels spreading grit around until they disappear. I tumble a lot of flat, cab sized pieces so I need the variety of shapes to get a good grind.
Although I don't do it I feel you can get away with using the same barrel for multiple grits if you use some elbow grease, a stiff brush, and soap. Be sure to scrub all surfaces of the inside of the barrel including where the lid and barrel seal. With lortone lids it's a good idea to take the rubber off and scrub everything down.
Just my $.02.
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 6, 2009 12:37:52 GMT -5
Aw shucks, I thought for sure the villagers would be showing up with torches and pitchforks for the single barrel blasphemy. Rocks with cracks, pits and crevices end up as shiny rocks with cracks, pits, and crevices if moved on out of step one.
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Post by Toad on Oct 6, 2009 13:13:38 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to do all the scrubbing - and too paranoid that I'd miss something, so I use a different barrel for each grit.
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Post by connrock on Oct 6, 2009 13:27:09 GMT -5
John i'm very surprised that you think I would bring torches and pitchforks!!!
My weapon of choice is a doubble barrel 12 guage!! lol
connrock
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bobh
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2009
Posts: 55
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Post by bobh on Oct 6, 2009 13:31:12 GMT -5
I must be missing somethiing. Grit hiding in crevice can pop out even in a clean polish-only barrel. Seems bouncing the suspect rocks before they get to the next stage is more important than having specialized barrels.
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sford13
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2009
Posts: 119
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Post by sford13 on Oct 6, 2009 13:36:32 GMT -5
Ok what is bouncing rocks? I am a newbie here not sure about what that means.
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Post by Toad on Oct 6, 2009 14:04:18 GMT -5
Bounce - go back to 60/90 grind
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sford13
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2009
Posts: 119
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Post by sford13 on Oct 6, 2009 15:01:28 GMT -5
Ok got it. Like a bouncer in a bar bounces the bad ones. Kinda slow here. Trying to make it some special thing you do with the rocks.
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Post by Toad on Oct 6, 2009 15:02:37 GMT -5
Well you can bounce it off the floor, might knock the grit loose...
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sford13
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since September 2009
Posts: 119
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Post by sford13 on Oct 6, 2009 15:09:30 GMT -5
Yeah I was thinking that was going to be the idea. But I was thinking that would be counter productive as it would also cause chips and cracks. Just me trying to make this hobby into something harder than it really is. No pun intended.
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Post by Toad on Oct 6, 2009 15:40:38 GMT -5
Rock tumbling is the easiest hobby - if you have patience.
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Post by connrock on Oct 7, 2009 5:47:25 GMT -5
I better clarify something here.
I DO NOT promote tumbling poor quality rocks nor do I promote the idea of continuing the tumbling cycle with rocks with flaws in them.
The point I was trying to put across is that having several barrels is NOT the answer to stopping cross contamination.
I've tumbled about 2 tons of rocks (literally) and have only had a cross contamination problem once.
What seems to happen here on the bard all the time is that the patience factor ALWAYS is the main problem.
heck,,,taint the barrels fault,,,,barrels have all the patience in the world,,,,it's the barrels "operator" who is just way tooooooooo anxious to move on to the next step.
we have ALL been there done that but have found the patience is the ONLY way to get good results.
Maybe the best way to teach someone how to tumble rocks would be to just teach them 1 step at a time???
First the rough stage,,,,,,months and months later the next stage and so on???
What do ya think?
"NO you may not read any further then the first stage or you will be expelled from this class"! lol
connrock ;D
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Post by Toad on Oct 7, 2009 6:10:20 GMT -5
Yes, it seems everyone thinks that they can get past the first stage in a week or two. But I think a lot of that has to do with directions from manufacturers. Lortone, as an example, basically tells you to move from one stage to the next after a single grind. That might work after the rough shaping is done, but as you say, the rough shaping can easily take several months.
If I'm starting with a freshly broken batch of rocks, I never pull out a single stone for the 220 phase until at least the third time through 60/90. All the rest go back into 60/90 with new material to make up for what was ground away. Then maybe 3-4 months down the road I finally have enough rock for a full 220 load. After that, processing is relatively quick.
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