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Post by sandsman1 on Apr 9, 2010 9:59:14 GMT -5
From the Desk of: Steve Elliott, Grassfire Nation john, Since passage of ObamaCare and the takeover of one-sixth of our nation's economy, I'm seeing tangible signs of a massive grassroots counter-offensive... Right here at Grassfire Nation, our statement of protest initiative has far exceeded my expectations. Over the last several days, we've been awash, hand-delivering more than 375,000 individual letters of outrage to lawmakers who supported ObamaCare. In each of those 375,000 letters to lawmakers, the personal outrage jumps off the page-opposing lawmakers actions, supporting lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of ObamaCare and making it clear to all who voted for the takeover that there will be no rest until they are voted from office! This is not what President Obama envisioned when he proudly, and arrogantly stood before the American people after passage of his plan that "this is what change looks like." He's counting on you and I to fall in line - to follow like lost sheep even as our nation is co-opted before our eyes! And john, he and his socialist cohorts are banking on you having a short memory come November... + + Half-a-million Statements of Protest! I just received a message that we have "countless" more letters of protest waiting to be printed and delivered... With your help, I want to have delivered 500,000 CITIZEN PROTESTS by the Tax Day Tea Party Events in D.C. on April 15 john, I'm so appreciative that you took a leadership role in this important initiative, but to reach our goal of 500,000 citizen protests, I need you to stand with me and our team just a bit longer. Forward this message to 30-40 friends right now, urging them to click below to join our next wave of hand-deliveries to Congress, and be sure to tell them that this is a FREE delivery to their lawmakers but they must respond no later than NOON on MONDAY (April 12). Have them click below to take action: www.grassfire.net/r.asp?u=26880&PID=24016872 Again, let them know that there is NO CHARGE for delivering their statements of protest to their two New Mexico Senators and Representative - Grassfire Nation is absorbing the cost as a way of saying "Thanks" for standing with us during this critical time. We are not sheep who blindly follow. We will not be bullied into silence - not now, not with so much at stake. And most importantly, WE WILL NOT FORGET! Please schedule your statement of protest right now, and alert your friends to take action with you.
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Post by texaswoodie on Apr 9, 2010 19:50:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I heard some dummycrat say the other day that by Nov. everyone will have forgotten healthcare. Lots o' luck on that one Bub.
Curt
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free4rms
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Post by free4rms on Apr 10, 2010 6:46:15 GMT -5
I see that Steve Elliot *still* does not know what a socialist or socialism is, or most likely pretends not to. He still uses these words to elicit a knee-jerk reaction from people who are too lazy to find out what they really mean. And his self-congratulatory arrogance is both obvious and sickening.
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Post by texaswoodie on Apr 10, 2010 8:48:42 GMT -5
I feel sure like me, Steve knows the meaning of Socialist. Obama is a Socalist, but either he or more likely the people that pull his strings are intelligent enough to know Socialism doesn't happen overnight. The people would revolt. This so called Health Care is a big step toward Socialism, though not as big as the far left lunatics wanted it to be. Perfect example of what I said above. Take small steps. If the people revolt, step back a little, but keep it going in that direction. The next step is to tax us into oblivion so that we have even less power.
We still have time to save what was once America, but we are getting closer by the day to the point of no return.
Curt
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free4rms
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Post by free4rms on Apr 10, 2010 10:03:02 GMT -5
Please show me how the health care bill is even a small step towards socialism. To make it easier to understand what socialism really is, here are a couple of dictionary definitions:
•S: (n) socialism (a political theory advocating state ownership of industry) •S: (n) socialism, socialist economy (an economic system based on state ownership of capital)
Now, can you tell me how the government *literally*, not figuratively, owns all the health insurance companies in the entire country? The idea of our government taking sneaky, imperceptible steps towards socialism, just so that people won't catch on, is absolutely ridiculous and absurd.
Yes, I am sure Steve knows what socialism really is, and he is not being duped by his handlers if he has any. He is just using the word to scare the bejeezus out of people who don't know what it means. It is a scare tactic, like using the word communism. Gotta give him credit, though... a lot of people are buying into it and falling for the old trick.
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Post by texaswoodie on Apr 10, 2010 14:05:57 GMT -5
**Now, can you tell me how thille government *literally*, not figuratively, owns all the health insurance companies in the entire country?**
As I said, it's a small step. Under the current bill, insurance companies have no chance of staying in business. When someone finds out they have cancer for example, they go to the insurance company and they have to pay their medical bills which can run to a million dollars. This money doesn't just come from out of nowhere as Obama would like everyone to believe. It comes from the profit of the insurance company. (There are more insurance killing rules, this is just one.) No profit means no insurance companies. Then the government says "Well those evil insurance companies refuse to insure everyone so we are going to have to do it" Wala! Instant government owned insurance.
**The idea of our government taking sneaky, imperceptible steps towards socialism, just so that people won't catch on, is absolutely ridiculous and absurd.**
That's exactly what Austria thought when Hitler took over. What is absurd is the fact that some people can't see it coming.
Curt
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Apr 10, 2010 15:34:31 GMT -5
As I see it, the trouble is that Socialism may be used to gain control of all aspects of a nation which can then be easily morphed into a Fascist state. That is how Hitler did it, his National Socialism gave him the power to take the next step. I am not saying that Obama wants to be like Hitler. I am saying that when the people give up the system of governance that built our nation, we will have little say in how the country "progresses". We need to make sure that the far right and the far left never gain the power to take from us the freedoms that allowed us to become a nation renowned for our liberties, freedom of choice and lifestyle.
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Post by parfive on Apr 10, 2010 22:16:55 GMT -5
Takes two words to describe this country nowadays.
Corporate oligarchy.
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free4rms
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Post by free4rms on Apr 11, 2010 7:58:45 GMT -5
<<"Well those evil insurance companies refuse to insure everyone so we are going to have to do it" Wala! Instant government owned insurance.
Over the last 15 years or so, the insurance companies have spent less and less on actual costs of claims and diverted it to profits. They *have* to do this in order to continue showing a profit to their stockholders (and of course you have to show a profit if you want to stay in business). But if they keep jacking up the premiums to the point where their customers can no longer afford their product, even those with discount rates, they will go under. And at the astronomical rate insurance premiums are rising, this may be inevitable. So if in the long run, the companies have raised premiums to the extent that the company can't compete any more, that is not the government's fault, it is mostly theirs. And if they go under, that is not an example of socialism where the government takes over ownership of these insurance companies. They will just not be in business any more. I am only using this explanation as an example of how this is not a case of the government "owning" the insurance companies (true socialism). Just think of this... if the insurance companies did not give massive discounts in premiums to the huge corporations who have thousands of enrollees and then gouged the crap out of people who needed to buy individual policies to make up the difference in lowered profits, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. When the largest insurer recently made premium jumps of 30-60% overnight, they said the problem was that people with individual policies were dropping them in such great numbers they had to increase rates for everyone to make up the difference. Well.....duhhhhhhh! They forced a huge number of individual policyholders right out the market because of their increasingly high rates, combined with a downturn in the economy. If they had pooled everyone in the U.S. together and gave everyone a similarly lower rate, they would have attracted millions of extra customers and their profits would probably have soared, and it would have been less necessary for any kind of health care bill, at least for a while. Sure, I can see the economic wisdom of price breaks for people buying in volume, but not when it costs the insurance companies dearly in the loss of customers overall. Not to mention the immorality of letting thousands die because you have priced them out of health care, randomly dropped their coverage or denied their claims for ridiculous reasons.
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Post by texaswoodie on Apr 11, 2010 9:04:26 GMT -5
My sister-in-law died at the age of 39 from brain cancer. The Doctors at M D Anderson Houston kept her alive longer than any patient they had ever had with the same type of cancer. Her husband was self employed. He did not think he had enough money to buy health insurance. They had a big nice house, 4 wheelers, horses etc. but not enough for health insurance. Viki had surgery after surgery, tons of MRI's, chemo, one Dr. vsit after another, but she was NEVER turned down by a Dr. or hospital because she did not have insurance. After she died there was a huge bill to be paid of several hundred thousand dollars. Her husband talked to the hospital and they just wrote the entire thing off. Puleeze don't insult me with this thousands of people dying crap.
This is something I'm not completely up on, but it's my understanding that the insurance companies are so regulated that they cannot compete across state lines in a lot of cases. Let them compete. Do away with ridiculous lawsuits. Let Capitolism work and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Curt
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free4rms
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Post by free4rms on Apr 11, 2010 15:33:37 GMT -5
I am very sorry to hear about your sister-in-law. I am very pleased to hear that the hospitals did all that they could to save her and then let her bills go away. Unfortunately, only a very small percentage of the people in her situation get the breaks that she did. It all comes down to how charitable the hospitals are. I heard a figure the other day about how much charity the hospitals give out in the form of free care, but it is extremely high. Nonetheless, if ever person in a similar situation was given the same charitable care and dissolution of bills, there would be no hospitals in business today. So, relying on charity is not the solution to the problem. And I hate to disappoint you and I hope this doesn't insult you, but the "thousands of people dying" remark is not crap. Here is an article from Harvard Medical School researchers that shows that 45,000 people die each year in a large part because of not having any insurance and not being able to get any good care. (This does not count the people who die from illnesses that may have been curable if they had not waited too long to get care since they had no insurance): www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58G6W520090917I do agree with you about competing across state lines, and I think that is a great idea. And I think the frivolous lawsuits have to be ended one way or another. They are driving the cost of insurance up for sure. However, although the insurance companies have been working in a system based on capitalism, the rising cost of health insurance still ranks as the top drain on our economy, and before the health care bill, was projected to be much, much worse in the next decade. So, the insurance companies keeping the status quo is obviously not working, and I believe it is time to try a new approach.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 11, 2010 16:07:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd agree Obama is mot mainly a socialist, he's mainly a Marxist. He plainly touts the three basic ideas of Marxism. 1. He believes in the struggle between social classes and redistribution of wealth 2. He is critical of capitalism and believes in government control of many aspects of the economy and 3. He believes in helping the working class seize power though not necessarily by revolution but rather by slow stages with the government acting as proxy for "the working class". In my estimation this is like the fox guarding the chicken coop. He is very socialist in that he believes in strong paternalistic government that knows what best for all us folks and is not shy about seizing portions of the economy that give the government the power to run our lives....Mel
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Post by sandsman1 on Apr 11, 2010 17:20:26 GMT -5
after all the disagreeing is done i know one thing, i have been shown all i need to be about the Dem party and i might not be around for very much longer but ill never vote for a Dem again as long as i am and i haven't made up my mind about rep's yet -- rep's like to spend our money also, but they did leave us alittle freedom to make up our own minds and didn't try and turn America into something we are not -- the biggest thing is there idea to share the wealth (dems) -- yes help our vets and our Seniors and our disabled after that i say get a dam job and support yourself -- welfare should have a one year limit --there should be no such word as lifer on welfare thats plain laziness -- and illegals should not get one red cent from America they should be bussed to the nearest boarder when they walk into an American hospital (( PERIOD )) -- that would solve allot of our problems money wise and job wise but it seems to me that Dem's want to hold out there hand and invite more dependents into our country yearly I'm guessing to try and keep up there voting numbers but i don't think its gonna matter when all the new tax's from obummer care are brought to light in the next couple years -- yes i read what i posted about more illegals deported this year then the last few but with all the lies and behind door deals the Dem's are pullin i would say I'm convinced that this is another smoke screen -- I'm waitin for obummer to start his push for the illegals like he keeps telling them he will then ill make up my mind about that one
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Post by parfive on Apr 11, 2010 21:30:13 GMT -5
Ah . . . the distribution of wealth!
Around 1970, the average CEO in this country earned <30x the average worker. Recently, it’s closer to 300x the average worker.
A few questions come to mind –
Is this WalMart’s fault? ;D Is the average CEO really 10x better than he used to be? Or is the average American worker just 10x worse these days?
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free4rms
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Post by free4rms on Apr 11, 2010 21:52:14 GMT -5
Oh yes, let's also not forget the greatest redistribution of wealth in recent history when the wealthiest had massive amounts of money redistributed to them in the form of tax breaks. You remember... the tax breaks that were supposed to generate more jobs and wealth for everyone? What a colossal fraud that was. I am interested in what you had to say Mel, but I am not sure exactly what you meant.
<<He believes in the struggle between social classes and redistribution of wealth. What is wrong with a struggle between the social classes when the wealthy are given all the tax breaks lately and the disparity in wealth between the upper and lower classes is greater than ever before. Is this what you meant about the struggle between the social classes? If not, could you explain it in more detail?
<<He is critical of capitalism and believes in government control of many aspects of the economy
How is he critical of capitalism in general? And what is this "control" and what are the many aspects you are talking about?
<<He believes in helping the working class seize power though not necessarily by revolution but rather by slow stages with the government acting as proxy for "the working class
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Helping the working class seize what power, from whom and how?
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jerryde
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2005
Posts: 246
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Post by jerryde on Apr 11, 2010 21:58:11 GMT -5
I don't know why all liberals are angry at Ceo's and people like Tiger Woods making millions... hey, let them have it...
They pay all your taxes anyway...plus they are the ones keeping the economy going...I wish they would earn ten times more...
at least they are not like the average beer sucking gut guy that keeps complaining while watching the idiots slug it out in the cage or watching some stupid reality show...who is the fattest...you got to be kidding me.
I know this as long as those people are able to make that kind of money I will be free and have hope...but when the person (government) controls your money...they control your "LIFE"
Think on that when you put your kids to bed tonight...
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Post by texaswoodie on Apr 12, 2010 8:08:20 GMT -5
Jerry, I heard some Dem complaining the other day that the state was loosing massive amounts of money because people were not getting the big bonuses they were getting. You just can't please a Liberal.
I also heard that with Healthcare + GM+ Chrysler+Freddie Mac+Fannie Mae+AIG+Lord only knows what else, the government will own close to 50% of our economy in the next few years.
Oh yeah baby! We're heading in the right direction now.
Curt
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Post by Toad on Apr 12, 2010 8:15:31 GMT -5
I love it. The Dems complain about executive pay and bonuses out one side of their mouth, and then complain about lost tax revenue with the other. That's why I love this site - points out the irony you never hear about on the news...
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jerryde
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by jerryde on Apr 12, 2010 11:08:43 GMT -5
Hey guys, this ain't all...remember "cap & trade" passed by congress awaiting for the senate's approval... Now you have your house inspected, licensed and approved before selling...guess who is going to do that...? yep, your friendly government... www.nachi.org/forum/f14/cap-and-trade-license-required-your-home-44750/ Now they are talking about a "Value Added Tax" (VAT) yea, a big vat to take more of your money and spend as they wish...a never ending...never ending...never ending...never ending...?
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Post by parfive on Apr 12, 2010 14:48:02 GMT -5
I love CEOs, Jerry. Here's my favorite this week.
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