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Post by tanyafrench on Jul 5, 2010 15:14:45 GMT -5
Hi,
I hope someone can help me. I have been tumbling agate, beautiful stuff, for three weeks now and it still is not getting smooth. It looks like it has ridges where the colors change. I am using some good grit 60/90 Silicon Carbide but it is still not smoothing the stones.
Any Suggestions,
Tanya
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 5, 2010 15:19:32 GMT -5
Sounds to me like you have material with varying hardness between the color bands. Some agates will respond better to cabbing, than they will tumbling.
Don
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slabcabber
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2010
Posts: 590
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Post by slabcabber on Jul 5, 2010 15:24:27 GMT -5
Maybe you have to much water. That is what it sounds like to me. Do you have a good foamy slurry? Open the tub and take a picture and post it for us to see so we can tell you if that is the problem.
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Post by Toad on Jul 5, 2010 15:31:07 GMT -5
And take pictures of what you're tumbling as well. Some stones take months in 60/90 to smooth out.
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Post by Condor on Jul 5, 2010 17:59:53 GMT -5
Sounds like too much water and too little grit. How big is your tumbler? How much water and grit are you adding to it?
Condor
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Post by tanyafrench on Jul 6, 2010 8:16:28 GMT -5
My tumbler is a Lortone 33B, two barrels. I'm not too sure how to post a picture but I'll try later today. According to the directions I have been putting in 4 tablespoons of grit and the water is to the bottom of the top layer of stones. I will get some pictures later today and try to download them to the site. I really am open to suggestions. I do have some plastic pellets in the tumbler as well. I know patience is a virtue but I am not the most patient person.
Thanks for any help,
Tanya
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 6, 2010 8:57:24 GMT -5
Sounds right. How about do you have a mixture of sizes and drum 2/3-3/4 full?
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revco
starting to spend too much on rocks
Another Victim Of The Rockcycle
Member since February 2010
Posts: 162
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Post by revco on Jul 6, 2010 9:50:17 GMT -5
All the basics apply here - good load, good mix, proper levels, good slurry. I might also mention that three weeks isn't a lot of time for a good, hard agate. Sometimes they require a great deal of time to smooth out. When you're recharging, does it seem like they're wearing down? Are you actually noticing what would be called "undercutting" where some material seems to wear down faster? Are you tumbling other similar materials that aren't having the same issue?
I sometimes have agates go for a 2+ months to get right, so it would be good to rule out procedural problems or undercutting against them just not being ready.
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Post by tanyafrench on Jul 6, 2010 10:35:06 GMT -5
Wow, 2 months! I do have some jasper and some petrified wood in the tumbler as well. Much of that has been moved to a finer grit this week but the agate is just not smoothing very much. I guess I am going to have to learn to be patient. It's just hard. I just got this tumbler and I was so excited at the prospect of zipping through with 2 weeks course, 1 week med, 1 week fine and 2 weeks polish. This is not going to happen with this beautiful agate. Thanks for all your input. I have so much to learn and you are helping.
Tanya
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revco
starting to spend too much on rocks
Another Victim Of The Rockcycle
Member since February 2010
Posts: 162
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Post by revco on Jul 7, 2010 0:05:42 GMT -5
I just re-read this - are you "recharging" the load of rocks every 5 to 7 days? Typically, you'll want to add in fresh 60/90 grit every 5 to 7 days because it breaks down and become less effective at taking off the rock. Usually we just dump the existing grit and rocks, rinsing through a colander or something, but some reuse some of the grit to jump start their next slurry. (Don't dump it down your drain!) I tend to recharge every 5 or 6 days because the grit is mostly broken down at this point.
Many of the so-called instructions say 1-2 weeks in course, but depending on your preferences, much better results can be had with a longer course run. I'd say my average is somewhere around 5-6 weeks in course, sometimes longer. I explicitly work with hounded rocks, though, so my initial quality is less than that of most purchased stones and therefore takes longer. That's why a lot of us run larger tumblers, specifically for course, where we just "harvest" those that are ready every recharge. It can be done in a smaller tumbler, and I did so for a few years, but it takes several months to bring a batch to completion.
Patience is really important in this hobby and it's natural for newcomers to want to complete their first batch. For good results though, it's best to take your time and make sure you do each step properly. Rushing will only cause you to have to repeat steps and get less than desirable results. The end result is worth it, especially when you learn to do this well. Best of luck!
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Post by tanyafrench on Jul 7, 2010 10:11:44 GMT -5
I do empty the tumblers every week. Sunday is my day. I dump it in a colander and check all the stones. Some get moved to the medium grind and with these most stay in the course grind with new grit. My husband and I are on Social Security so we have to be economical. I was lucky to get the Lortone on Ebay for a really good price. We also live in Ohio so finding good tumbling material is just not a reality. I have purchased some of the SFRB's of agate and petrified wood on this site and I have been thrilled. The wood is tumbling smooth and looking good, it's just the Agate that is not. I will try again to take a picture. Many thanks. Tanya
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Post by Toad on Jul 7, 2010 11:02:04 GMT -5
Sounds like you are doing it right. At each re-charge, only pull out the rocks you are satisfied with. All the rest go back into the rough grind with fresh grit. Agate does usually take months - especially if it was rough-broken vs. sawed. There is no way around the patience thing. Some of us have it, others have to learn it.
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Post by Toad on Jul 7, 2010 11:04:59 GMT -5
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Post by tanyafrench on Jul 7, 2010 17:30:23 GMT -5
My son Chris Perez and I are going over to Flint Ridge in a couple of weeks. It's about a 2 hour drive. A couple of people have sent info on where to go to possibly find some. If not we will try to buy some in the area. This site really have great prices for the tumbling stone. Perhaps we can go to his shop. I will call and find out. Thanks for supplying this location.
Tanya
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Jul 7, 2010 17:53:39 GMT -5
Go to Flint Ridge on Labor Day week end...biggest flint knappin in the USA that weekend. Lots of rock and primitive arts going on.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jul 9, 2010 2:12:24 GMT -5
Hi Tayna,
Agate is very hard as you know and a beast to smooth down BUT you Will be rewarded with a brilliant shine when you finish
Flint is also very hard and polishes up realy well with a very high gloss
Stick at it paitience is the name of the game.
I do the same as you recharge once a week I add a tea spoon of wallpaper crystals to help the grit stick to the rocks for the first 2 days (after that the mud takes over)
Some people "seed" with a little bit of goop from the last batch
Keep a journal and experiment as you will see from the answers you get everyone does things a bit different in 20 yrs time you will be doing the same ? with your own Best recepie !!!
Oh one final thing When you wash up is there any grit left over ?
You should have none at all or very little and fine
If the grit is big (as you put in) there is no grinding action taking place(this has happened to me once) adjust the water a bit Less ?
when you take the rocks off you want a thickish goop not thin watery
Hope this helps you a bit , but do try and keep a record of your tumbles then you will know which works for you
Jack
Yorkshire uk
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Post by tanyafrench on Jul 9, 2010 5:28:03 GMT -5
Jack, Thanks so much for all the info. I have not been keeping a journal but I will start. What are wallpaper crystals? Does it come from a home improvement store where wallpaper is sold? I can try to find some of that for this week. Sunday is just a couple of days away now and I will be opening that barrel again. We go to get the flint on the 17th. I am real excited about that.
Regards,
Tanya
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Post by Toad on Jul 9, 2010 6:32:42 GMT -5
I've never used the crystals (don't even know what they are) and have been fine. The slurry/mud should start forming in your barrel quickly if you haven't added too much water - and by the end of a week the grit should be used up. Doesn't mean you can't use helpers as Jack suggests - whatever works best for you. Just keep notes as he suggests.
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Post by deb193redux on Jul 9, 2010 8:32:01 GMT -5
The idea of a helper is convenient. The quicker the mud starts to form the sooner grit is suspended and the sooner grinding happens. This is why some folks leave just a bit of the old slurry. I often put in a few softer stones like rhyolite, butter jase, or whatever to have then quickly throw some mud. THe downside of too much mud too soon is that not enough grinding occures because too much mud coats and protects stones.
Because so much depends on the amount of contact between stones, the mix of sufficient smaller stones is often the most critical. So if the water seems right, and the slurry is forming, then the next thing to consider is the ratio of sizes.
Any progress on the picture?
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Post by tanyafrench on Jul 9, 2010 9:29:38 GMT -5
You just hit on something that may help. These stones are all about the same size. I will recharge the tumbler today and add some real small stones I got from Ebay. Should I still use plastic pellets in the course grind?
Thanks, Tanya
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