Skipper
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 258
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Post by Skipper on Feb 20, 2004 16:43:06 GMT -5
Was reflecting on a comment from the poll I created...various polishes are good for different rocks.
Can you do a quick post of which polishes you have found most effective for what rock types?
For example, I've found the Aluminum Oxide works well on the agates, particularly moss agate. Nice wet shine. Not so good on my jasper and quartz.
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donwrob
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 509
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Post by donwrob on Feb 20, 2004 17:49:09 GMT -5
OK, here is my 2 cents for what it's worth Skipper. It has been said before and I agree 100%. I think it is hard to beat Cerium oxide for an all around polish at a mid range price, in my opinion. I have had good luck with it on agates, jaspers, flints and cherts, quartz and glass. That covers a lot of rock types. The only thing I found to to a decent job on obsidian was tin oxide, it also works great on the above mentioned. But, the price doesn't justify it on the others when Cerium oxide works so well for less $. Happy tumbling, Don
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Post by sandsman1 on Feb 20, 2004 17:52:06 GMT -5
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Banjocreek
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2003
Posts: 1,115
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Post by Banjocreek on Feb 21, 2004 0:31:46 GMT -5
I am in the same boat here. I'm learning a lot by trial and error. I had some stones I ran in cerium oxide for 10 days and the quartz and agate looked great, but the averntine, goldstone, and others were a bit silky, and not as shiney as I hoped them to be. I removed the great looking stones and put in the polish that comes with the 'Thumblers Tumbler' (anybody know what they provide in their starter kit) and ran the duller ones for 4 days and they looked better than the quartz I took out because I thought it was terrific.. This was after I ran the whole batch in cerium for about 10 days. Now- #1. It could be the polish that I used after the 10 days of cerium worked better on the stones that I left in to go again. #2. It could be that after 10 days of cerium they would have polished great with any kind of polish. #3. It could be that the quartz and harder rocks in the mix were beating up the softer ones, and once they were isolated in there own barrel they began to polish. #4. It could be that if I would quit running different types of stones together I wouldn't have this problem. But through it all I am beginning to learn about different polishes and rocks and what seems to work best, and that is only through goofing up, backing up, re-doing, and trying different things. Experience is the best teacher! I learn more from my mistakes than from all the stuff I read that has a habit of going in one ear and out the other (or would that be in one eye, and out the other?). I just keep plugging along, learning as I go. But this board had been a terrific help none the less. Thanks folks!!! -Banjo (sorry if I took up too much of your time with this ;D)
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Skipper
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 258
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Post by Skipper on Feb 21, 2004 11:21:08 GMT -5
thanks to all - exactly what I was looking for. And the link is awesome!
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Skipper
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 258
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Post by Skipper on Feb 22, 2004 1:59:55 GMT -5
Was reviewing the above link that uses this key: CO - Cerium Oxide, CH - Chrome Oxide, DI - Diamond, LA - Linde A, TO - Tin Oxide
What is Linde A?
Anyone using Diamond as a polish? It doesn't sound affordable.
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Skipper
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 258
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Post by Skipper on Feb 22, 2004 2:18:13 GMT -5
Just found this post...
LINDE A AND B are trade names for CORUNDUM (sapphire/ruby powder). The A is 0.3 micron in size and the B is 0.05 micron. Alumina is often used as a name for ALUMINUM OXIDE. Aluminum Oxide is corundum. All the same.
I have not used the 0.05 micron size, but I do use the 0.3 micron powder as an additive to CERIUM OXIDE. Also, a small amount of the 0.3 micron alumina in a tumbling polish mix will produce mirror like polishes on quartz family stones.
I have polished ruby in zoisite (two separate minerals). The green zoisite will polish just fine with aluminum oxide. However, ruby is aluminum oxide. To really get a great polish on the ruby you have to use diamond. You can't hurry any of the steps and you can't make big jumps in the grades. Final polish of 100,000 diamond will produce a great looking piece, but the time involved is enormous.
The best polish on ruby in zoisite I have seen was done by Thomas Harth Ames (winner of the AGTA Cutting Edge Award Best of Show for the year 2000 for an Oregon opal carving). When I asked him how he achieved a mirror polish on the ruby in zoisite, his response was animated, not entirely printable and carried the strong conviction that he would never undertake that kind of job again. The number of hours he put into the slow polishing process convinced me to wind up my ruby in zoisite piece with less than an ultra high shine. ...
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Post by rockyraccoon on Feb 22, 2004 20:49:46 GMT -5
hey skipper can you elaborate on using the corundum with the cerium? sandsman posted a link awhile back that mentioned doing that for a "mirror" shine and i wanted to know if anyone had ever tried it. do you only do that on certain stones?
kim
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Skipper
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 258
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Post by Skipper on Feb 22, 2004 23:35:55 GMT -5
Actually, I've never done it...all I have is the Alum Oxide right now and was about to go buy some Cerium. Now, I do seem to recall someone else on this site commenting that mixing polishes was not a good idea, but can't recall where.
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 23, 2004 8:45:14 GMT -5
I've never used Diamond polish before, but I hope to try it soon. If I ever get this load of Rubies to the polish stage, I intend to use Diamond polish to finish it. I hate to spend that much, but what the heck, it is for "the rocks"!
Ron
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Post by puppie96 on Feb 24, 2004 4:33:09 GMT -5
I've been struggling with rubies as well, also have been trying to research polishes. The post above, and a comment in the "mamas rock shop" (or whatever it's called) are the only ones I've seen that suggested diamond as a possible polish for these stones. Other sites that have lists of various polishes and their uses and types of stones have listed others for ruby/sapphire; in fact, I've seen nothing suggesting using diamond in a tumbler at all. I would have to wonder whether it would wear out either a rotary or vibe tumbler prematurely. Also I suspect that rock that gets consigned to tumbling rather than faceting or cabbing isn't seen as rock that merits this kind of expense. I would think that recovering the diamond would be essential and that would be very hard to do. However, I'm certainly in favor of experimentation, and I hope that if you do decide to go to the expense you will post your results.
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 24, 2004 9:17:00 GMT -5
Hey Puppie96, I will definitely keep you posted. I do have a plan on how I'm going to attack this, but I think I better keep it a secret until it works! You know, the whole think about the best ideas of mice and men. I have put a lot of thought into this though, and I believe that diamond can be used safely, and can also be recovered for reuse. Don't be in a hurry though, because what I really need is a harder material to rough with that costs less than $10 per ounce. So for now, I just keep adding regular coarse grit every other day and hope it doesn't take too many months. I started with nine pounds of rough, maybe I should have started a little smaller.
Ron
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Post by puppie96 on Feb 25, 2004 3:28:30 GMT -5
Hey Michigan Rocks -- are you using vibe or barrel? I really think I'd have gone TOTALLY nuts with this stuff without the vibe, which at least pushes the rough grind forward somewhat. Along the way, I've gotten some stones that polished to a high gloss and appear to have pretty color and some transparency -- several of these are pretty big, and I need to show them to somebody in the business for thoughts or suggestions. I've gotten them smoothed out pretty well but I am struggling with the polish. About that, I ordered up both tin and cerium oxide from the rock shed. So far the results on everything from cerium oxide are way better than tin oxide. I might resort to diamond too, but I don't think I've exhausted my possibilities yet. There's at least one board regular here who has encouraged this and said that it took him ages and ages, but he finally did get down to something polishable. Odd how this sapphire/ruby thing seems to take possession of people in some cases. Emeralds, on the other hand, are the easiest thing in the world, taking on a blindingly beautiful finish! Seriously!
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 25, 2004 7:48:53 GMT -5
I'm using all rotary tumblers. I have to do it in my house, and am afraid of the noise from a vibe. I have really been considering one anyway though, I could sure use a more agressive action here. I just pulled my rubies after 21 days of rough. A looooooong way to go yet. I needed the tumbler for something else. Hope to have another 15 lber working within a couple of weeks, maybe that will get me caught up so that I can try some more work on the rubies. I weighed the rubies and, while I started with nine pounds of material, it is now down to 4.5 pounds! Did you lose that much weight? Next smaller tumbler to get free will get these going again. Plan on using 30 grit this time. I'm getting desparate!
Ron
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 25, 2004 7:51:32 GMT -5
I almost forgot, I've always considered tin oxide a polish for softer rocks. Seems like it should have done at least as well as cerium oxide though. Ron
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Post by puppie96 on Feb 26, 2004 3:30:26 GMT -5
Wow, to think that 9 lbs. is down to half the weight! I haven't been weighing regularly, sorry I can't compare. I do seem to lose a lot of bulk. I have been working basically the same batch with additions along the way for months. I've had 4 lbs. rough lying around for a while, yesterday the vibe was free so I put it in. The first couple days in the vibe produce an amazing amount of mud. You really have to watch it, it turns into a cement like sludge and traps the stones at the bottom! The stuff I started today was 3lbs. one lot and 1lb. another. One batch is small gravel and the other larger chunks. There is one very interesting rock with a lot of crystal showing right away, somewhat rounded or sort of a bumpy surface. There's also a largish piece of colorless transparent stuff with a few inclusions. First reaction was it looked like a quartz, but it is in with the corundum. Cerium seems to be working better than tin on everything I've tried it on. That includes some softer rocks -- these are ones that didn't polish in my early mixed batches -- they were in tin oxide for a week and a half, no shine. You are probably better off not to go below 60/90. I tried it once and it stayed very watery, no slurry forming. I finally added some 60/90 to it and that finally got it to form mud. Recently there were some posts here describing the same thing, I believe it was from one of the regulars, recommending against it and saying it could slow you down. Did some ametrine recently. Bought the rough off Ebay, got large chunks which were mostly really pretty, transparent, and clean rock -- very impressive -- some really looked like they didn't need much more than a polish. Have you done emeralds? They are easy and I love the results! At the moment I'm taking back some finished ones to earlier stages to see if I can get them even better. The color often continues to come up even though the stone already polished. There seem to be layers of dull color, gray to green, on the top. They will polish with rough left on them too, that is usually in pits and is black often with mica glittering. My experiments now are being done very carefully as I'd like to see how much of that I can grind out but not lose too much good material. Wow that got long winded. This board is great!
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Feb 26, 2004 8:11:55 GMT -5
You're probably right about the coarser grit. When I tried using 46/70 grit, I kept finding a lot of it in the bottom of the barrel no matter how long I ran it, and yet nothing seemed to be working in the slurry. Probably is too heavy. I've also been considering hand working each ruby with my Dremel using a coarse diamond burr to try and speed things up. I'm going to order some today as I don't have any of the right type in my tool box right now. I'll let you know if this is worth the time and effort. I have a pound of emerald rough but I haven't done anything with them yet. My smallest tumbler is a 4.5 lb. Lortone, so I've been considering buying three more pounds so that I can start a full load of just emeralds. I don't know, based on my rubies, maybe I should start with nine pounds again! The emeralds I have are from a different place and it doesn't seem to have as much matrix around the crystals. Maybe I won't lose as much when I tumble them. Just ordered another 15 lb. Model B so I can get more of my regular rock moving and free the smaller one for these "specials". Yea, I agree. This board is the best thing since sliced rocks, or something like that.
Ron
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Post by puppie96 on Feb 27, 2004 0:39:50 GMT -5
Hi! Like the rubies, different batches of emerald rough look very different from each other. Some has a lot of matrix. I had good luck with starting the rubies and emeralds together for the first grind or so, and then taking out the ems when it felt right. That really got the ems off to a good start. Thing with the larger grit is that it just doesn't want to stick to the rock so it sinks to the bottom.
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Post by puppie96 on Mar 5, 2004 3:08:48 GMT -5
Another polish question -- I've been reading back through the posts and can't find anything specifically about titanium oxide and what stones it might be good for. About all I've seen about it thus far are bashing it for sticking in the little pits and cracks -- not good advertising. Does anybody use this and on what types of rocks? Thank you!
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Banjocreek
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2003
Posts: 1,115
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Post by Banjocreek on Mar 5, 2004 11:00:22 GMT -5
When I used the Titanium Oxide it created a Beautiful Shine! These were some mixed stones, that I couldn't name all of. Just one of those sample packs. The shine was billiant on every stone. Had I known how to get the polish out of the pits, and cracks at the time, I would have been very pleased. Now with the tips I received off of this Bulletin Board, I would have no problem trying it again. The warn water, and soap and toothbrush were the solution. A better solution would be to let the 60/90 get the pits out before moving on. That was a 'Live and Learn' episode for me. I'm learning more and more about polish and stones every day. My saving grace is that I have a Lortone 3-1.5 with a different polish in each barrel, so the variables of contamination have been removed.
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