Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,504
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Post by Sabre52 on May 23, 2011 18:41:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that spending several years doing animal rescue and rehab, snake and raptor presentations and now, here on the ranch, snake rescue ( rescuing snakes from people not people from snakes) has made me very sensitive to the issue of just what damage man's activities inflict on the wildlife population and snakes in particular. I've got to admit that Texans in particular are very tough to deal with. I love native Texans as they are friendly folks but their friendship does not extend to animals. Man, for a good percentage of them, every snake is poisonous, every dillo carries leprosy, everything with fur has rabies etc etc. Plus the super fast speed limits leads to highways being the worst killing grounds I've ever seen. Texas roads are almost paved with critter corpses. Tough to educate folks here too as many are very hard headed. Our ranch manager kills harmless water snakes because he says, by God he knows what a cottonmouth looks like. I've explained cottonmouths are not even found here bit it's useless. All in all, it's very frustrating for animals lovers like my wife ( who is a Texas Master Naturalist) and I....Mel
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Digforcrystals
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2008
Posts: 351
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Post by Digforcrystals on May 23, 2011 19:24:09 GMT -5
I've watched this thread with interest.
After seeing the initial post I assumed that a dead snake was encountered and then a photo taken with a prop. At least I hope that is it and the snake was not killed for sport or entertainment purposes.
At any rate, pictures of dead animals shouldnt be entertainment or entertaining. The original post was in extremely poor taste.
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adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
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Post by adrian65 on May 24, 2011 3:02:42 GMT -5
Why being so harsh about the behaviour of a "guest", when so many locals, as you say, behave the same, if not worst ?
As far as I know, fear of snakes is somehow instinctual to many animals and we humans might have been inherited it also. Don't get me wrong, I am against molesting snakes also, but in the mean-time I find it more understandable due to the reason above.
Besides, you blame John for something he didn't do. According to what he wrote he found the snake in that condition.
Is that picture really so bad, compared to those hunters holding up the freshly killed deer's head as a trophy?
I think John is agood guest, I haven't seen him displaying the flag of any other host countries he's been through so far but he did it in your country. Maybe you should give him some credit for what he says, and be a good host, at least as good as you want him to be a guest.
I admire John's courage and will and enjoy what he shares with us here. And even if some of his posts might seem a bit strange, they might look this way because of the efforts and privations taken through his journey. It's hard to keep your mental strength intact after pedalling through the sunny desert all day long and after talking with no one else than Scooby for days.
And yet he does, or at least he does more than many of us would do in his conditions.
Thank you John for sharing your adventures with us.
Adrian
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,504
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Post by Sabre52 on May 24, 2011 8:42:58 GMT -5
Adrian: Love ya man and I respect your views. I even admire John's fortitude for taking his epic bike journey. But that is not what I got out of John's post. I'm growing tired of this topic but let me explain myself. First off, he said the snake was alive and crawling across the road when he encountered it. He admits he considered running it over. ( not cool even to think that) Then the snake appears in his posed picture obviously either dead or severely injured. He states it then crawled slowly off. ( I doubt it crawled off at all from it's condition in the pic.) From what he has stated in his post, how the snake got injured is a matter of some question. It appears to me that at best, he posed a picture with a dead or injured snake for his amusement, which is, in bad taste. At worse, as I've said, he may have killed the harmless snake for his own needs, which is sadistic. I would ask what's next? Is he going to bike Australia and post pics of ole Scooby cradled in the arms of a dead and dying Koala bear? Would you defend him in that case? I know the Koala is cute and cuddly so everyone would say how gross and tasteless. But, because is a scary ole snake, some folks think it's OK and come to John's defense. All I'm saying is that, were I touring his country, I'd not be posing my toys for pics with a dying hedgehog I might see along the road and posting pics for all my friends, as that would not be behavior one would expect from a good guest in another's country. And Adrian, I criticize my fellow Texans for such stupid behavior the same as I do a guest in our country, no more no less, even though I think a guest, being a guest, should be held to an even higher standard. One does not always take off his dirty boots in one's own house but he sure as heck does when visiting someone elses house.
Oh yeah, note to John. If your tour does take you across Texas, you are apt to find a lot of dead armadillos on the road. If you pose ole Scooby with a dead dillo, be aware that about 5% of them do carry the bacteria that causes leprosy so wear gloves when you pose your pic. Wouldn't want to add the risk of that to the big risk of lungworm you've already picked up by eating raw crawdaddies.
PS: Fear of snakes or other critters is not instinctual. It's learned behavior passed on by fearful uneducated elders to children. My dad had a degree in zoology and took me out into the wilds at a very young age. He taught me to appreciate the wilds and the animals living there including inherent dangers. We're simply taught to fear what our teachers don't understand or to fear what we do understand based on real danger to our lives. Fear based on real danger is a good survival mechanism. The other is just foolishness folks teach others due to ignorance.......Mel
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adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
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Post by adrian65 on May 24, 2011 9:36:55 GMT -5
Mel, I notice that your argumentation is based on the fact that you believe that John harmed somehow the snake or took advantage of his injured state, being aware (him) about that.
To be honest, me, as a totally novice in the snakes anatomy and behaviour, I couldn't guess that snake is injured, by looking at that picture. I don't expect John to be a snake specialist neither, so he might had been thinking it's only lazy or some other things like that.
So what might appear obvious to your specialist's eye could pass un-noticed by an untrained eye.
As for his intention to get over the snake, I agree it's not very noble and it's also dangerous. BUT, it was still just an intention.
I wouldn't had been defending him if I would had been thinking he harmed the snake. But, by the contrary, to me it's his sincerity in declaring this intention that makes me believe the fact that he would had told us if he would had really been the one who did it.
Adrian
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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on May 24, 2011 10:24:45 GMT -5
chill everyone!
this issue with the fear of slithers is not going away as its an almost instinctual reaction in almost all warm blooded creatures us included.
I myself love reptiles and do my best to preserve them.
This is an opinion based issue and all opinions will not be the same
oh yeah, and as for educating someone on reptiles, you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar!
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adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
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Post by adrian65 on May 24, 2011 11:22:45 GMT -5
PS: Fear of snakes or other critters is not instinctual....Mel You could be right but please explain this: we have one of our kitties since she was born and stood by her mom for a couple of weeks only. Later, when she was grown up, I once forgot a plywood strip on the floor. The strip was some 2 inches wide by 2 feet long. It was so funny the way she approaced that thing, so suspicious, sniffing it, tapping one of its ends with her paw repeatedly, then going back again and so on... she clearly considered it a threatening living thing, without seeing any snake in her whole live. Adrian |
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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on May 24, 2011 11:44:14 GMT -5
yep my dog also was instantly in alert when she was exposed to a snake as a 3 year old and had never seen or been around one.
No matter what you believe the baisc instinctual fear of silthers is there in all mammals, us included
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Post by Bikerrandy on May 24, 2011 19:50:28 GMT -5
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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on May 24, 2011 20:27:51 GMT -5
wow, that one is a beauty!
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Post by Bikerrandy on May 24, 2011 20:39:53 GMT -5
Yeah, she's a Savu python from New Guinea. Here's my daughter's kingsnake....  |
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Post by Bikerrandy on May 24, 2011 20:54:13 GMT -5
And another, this is my buddy's Argentine boa......  |
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Post by Bikerrandy on May 24, 2011 20:56:16 GMT -5
Harlie & Daisey ;D  |
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karenfh
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2006
Posts: 1,495
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Post by karenfh on May 24, 2011 21:15:16 GMT -5
I have a healthy respect for all wildlife, and come from a long line of responsible hunters. I myself do not hunt. But let me tell ya, folks, when you are 8.5 mos. pregnant and walking thru some low weeds in late October in your country yard, step down and hear the sound which could be either a rattler or a bull snake, look down and see buttons, then feel the tail slapping your leg, your heart kinda stops. I did kill it, after standing on it for awhile and wondering if I could jump far enough, wondering what happens to unborn babies if I got bit...and I really, really had to GO, if ya know what I mean.
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darstcreek77
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2011
Posts: 673
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Post by darstcreek77 on May 25, 2011 1:24:11 GMT -5
Mel did you fire your ranch manager or call him names if I felt (like you do about snakes ) I would have fired him , I do not kill non poisoness snakes but rattle snakes and copper heads get shot if found around the house I spend a lot of money to buy the snake away ( Does it work) my little buddy the hog nose that lives under the cabin wish it would live under my 16x 24 shed, correl snakes get moved with a stick (ALONG STICK)lol only found one in 20 years , there are a lot of copperheads and I mean alot only 3 rattle snakes , we have rat snake and those bone colored racers I had just drilled a well and had my golf course sprinkler on went out to move it walked right up on a pinkish snake , it was laying on the damp ground , scared the poop out of me because I didnt see it before I got to close !
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,504
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Post by Sabre52 on May 25, 2011 9:51:20 GMT -5
darst: *L* Nope ( good ranch managers are hard to find and he's retiring in a few months anyway) but I voiced my opinion same as I have with John. Also tried to educate him a bit but I can't follow him all over the 3000 acres and watch him or the other ranch hands all day. And darst, I respect your right to eliminate poisonous snakes you think pose a hazard because they cannot be avoided, even though I prefer to relocate them myself. As for all of the folks who rush to the defense of a guy who makes a post I find offensive and makes me question the poster's character, well, you're all entitled to have your opinions just as I have mine. End of story.....Mel
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Rogue Trader
freely admits to licking rocks
"Don't cry because you are leaving, smile because you were there."
Member since December 2008
Posts: 839
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Post by Rogue Trader on May 31, 2011 15:41:58 GMT -5
OK, I've finally found time to re-visit this topic, and i'll say again what happened - I saw the snake slithering across the road, and I did consider running it over. BUT an old guy in California told me that these things strike fast and the have a good aim. I didn't want to risk missing it and then it snapping on my ankle, so I stopped after passing it, and threw Scooby on it. It turned and bit him. Now, again you might not have noticed, (I'm told only 35% of the regional peoples are educated to reading, so find your own percentile,) but I did say that I had to wait 30 minutes at least for the thing to slither away. OK, I'll admit I said it slithered away slowly, but you know what? I couldn't tell the difference between a slow snake of a racing snake, so to me it was slowly. Contrary to the High & Mighty ones opinion I never injured, killed, or attempted to do either to the snake. Brave yes, stoopid no. That's self explanitary because I'm not Texan am I  |
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