duke
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2004
Posts: 77
|
Post by duke on Jun 15, 2004 7:40:25 GMT -5
tarylina...Sam Rayburn Lake is about 4-5 hrs southeast of Dallas..close to Lufkin, if that helps.
|
|
Trouthunter
having dreams about rocks
Member since May 2004
Posts: 63
|
Post by Trouthunter on Jun 15, 2004 10:48:54 GMT -5
Can't you just take a bar of Ivory soap and a pocket knife and just shave it down? It would dissolve pretty quickly in the tumbler and have essentially the same effect as the flakes, wouldn't it?
|
|
bschultz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 234
|
Post by bschultz on Jun 15, 2004 13:27:15 GMT -5
That's what I do Trout. I just go into one of the bathrooms and cut a chunk off of one of the little soap bars. You know the ones I'm talking about. They get so thin you wind up throwing them away. Sometime it's not even Ivory. I'll throw it in the cleanup cycle along with some Borax. It cleans the rocks, barrels and the pellets all at one time.
Bob
|
|
|
Post by krazydiamond on Jun 15, 2004 18:33:57 GMT -5
yo, buddy..you need some flake...? yeh, you...
i'll bet that wouldn't go over well in the Post Office either...it's SOAP, REALLY!!!!
yikes, KD
|
|
|
Post by cookie3rocks on Jun 15, 2004 18:39:27 GMT -5
Yeah man, this stuff is 99 44/100th% pure. It's the sh**. You'll get your moneys worth... ;D cookie
|
|
|
Post by krazydiamond on Jun 15, 2004 18:43:10 GMT -5
so is it legal to move soap flake over state lines these days? save that vintage box, rollingstone.
anybody wanna take a bath? KD
|
|
duke
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2004
Posts: 77
|
Post by duke on Jun 15, 2004 19:14:14 GMT -5
Hey rollingstone...I can just picture it now...you over in a dark corner at a rock and gem show with your overcoat on saying "Pssst....hey mister....wanna buy some Ivory snow flakes?"... ;D
|
|
tarylina
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2004
Posts: 84
|
Post by tarylina on Jun 15, 2004 21:35:22 GMT -5
Yeah, man, Rollingstone has "rocks" of any size, any price - and "flakes" too, if you're interested Groovy...
|
|
stubby
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since April 2004
Posts: 150
|
Post by stubby on Jun 16, 2004 17:08:37 GMT -5
Did a lot of checking. P & G doesn't make the flakes anymore. Shavings off of a bar of regular Ivory Soap is same product. My reading says don't use anything with detergent. I've never tried Borax. It is a mineral, so it would be slightly abrasive.
|
|
tarylina
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2004
Posts: 84
|
Post by tarylina on Jun 16, 2004 18:53:04 GMT -5
OK - research queen here (I really need to get a life ) Ivory Snow powder is still produced, but it has been changed from a soap to a detergent. Dreft is also a detergent, although both are supposedly very mild. The difference between soap and detergent is that soap is made of natural ingredients and detergent is synthetic; although detergent can have natural ingredients in it. Borax is a mineral, as Stubby said, and it works by releasing hydrogen peroxide when it is with mixed with water, which creates a natural bleaching agent. It is a good buffer, keeping acidity and alkalinity stable. (Internet verbage, I'm not that smart) I think Iwill try the Borax myself because it seems to work well from what y'all have posted, and I don't want to take the time to shave soap. Especially not Ivory soap. I'm probably the one person in the whole world who is allergic to Ivory, so I would have to wear rubber gloves - and I'm allergic to Latex, so it just pretty much would be a disaster for me. Of course, that's why I had children - to do these things for me that I cannot do for myself... ;D
|
|
|
Post by krazydiamond on Jun 16, 2004 19:25:55 GMT -5
i tried to find 20 Mule Team Borax today at the local grocery and couldn't....doomed, i'm doomed. no flake and no mule! what hath technology wrought? actually the instruction i got with my tumbler said absolutely no bleach in anything (detergent, dishwashing stuff, etc....i was going to use the borax as a barrel cleanser in between cycles as suggested in here to prevent cross contamination.... well, until i get another barrel or two.....hehehe. KD
|
|
|
Post by cookie3rocks on Jun 16, 2004 19:30:37 GMT -5
Whatever you are doing KD, it works. Have you not tried it yet? You can let us know if it made a differance or not. I just recharged with fresh everything and put in a litte Borax, and I'm still in coarse. Hope thats ok. I'm looking for slip value so the stones don't get stuck at the bottom of the vibe.
cookie
|
|
|
Post by krazydiamond on Jun 16, 2004 19:50:12 GMT -5
thanks for the unabashed support, cookie,
sugar, borax, haha...no i hadn't even thought about trying anything that wasn't in my original tumbler instructions...remember this is only my 4th run (started my 5th yesterday). i did get a book...(i'm almost ashamed to mention the title) " Secrets of the Pros Revealed"....by Edward E. Smith, but i got it early on and have only begun to understand it now after experiencing some of the problems and, of course, reading a lot in here.
it (the book) does go into detail more about ibratory tumblers, but does give some rule of thumb background for the relationships between hardness and recommended grit/polish and slurry thicknesses.
what i can tell you from my own personal experience is that plastic pellets are the most important. i think that is what got my sodalite so clean and shiny.....well, my opinion anyway.
meanwhile, i will try grating bars of ivory soap next.....i half of my kitchen tools in the basement as it is!
cheers, KD
|
|
|
Post by cookie3rocks on Jun 16, 2004 20:58:08 GMT -5
My rocks have lost about 1/4# since I started them, but that still puts me at 3#. I do intend to use pellets as the rock wears away, but that may be some time. I used them before but I let the slurry get too thick and Everything stuck to the bottom, including the pellets! We are all heading toward James like zen. James has reached Nirvana and we now see that it is possible. Let the rocks happen...
cookie
|
|
|
Post by puppie96 on Jun 17, 2004 2:30:41 GMT -5
Hey Cookie -- I've been using a vibe for about 8 months now, figured out a few things. I follow the Raytech instructions -- 2 TEAS. not TBSP of grit -- they say 4 TEAS of H2O if the rocks are dry and 2 if they are wet. I do deviate there, but not by a lot -- I add more like 3 to wet rocks, otherwise, they dry themselves out before I get back to them. I always, always, always wash the whole thing every 12 hours. Not that hard, use 2 buckets, a colander, and the hose in the backyard. When the rocks are new, they will gum up in the bottom in a hurry. It's absolutely critical at first to check them OFTEN and add a TEAS. or so more H2O. After the first couple of days it gets a lot easier and you can cut back on the H2O and the checking. Important not to use too much H2O or it won't grind as well. I get small amounts of the leakage that folks have described in other threads, but it you get a lot you are almost certainly using too much water. My biggest problem is the Raytech bowls wearing through. They replaced the first 2, then they said that was enough. I have a number to call them for advice but haven't had time to use it and in the meantime I've bought yet another bowl and worn out my third since November. My feeling is that every time I have a "rocks stuck in mud" episode it damages the bowl. The early ones happened with long term grinding of rubies/saphs. Hope this is helpful. And Tary, I am allergic to Ivory and so was my Dad!!
|
|
|
Post by cookie3rocks on Jun 17, 2004 18:45:17 GMT -5
Thanks Puppies, Is that your recipe for polish and do you use pellets also? I did have leakage in my last polish stage, I just could't get it through my head that the recommened amount of water was correct. I also decided to pull some water out of my last recharge.
cookie
|
|
|
Post by puppie96 on Jun 18, 2004 0:54:45 GMT -5
Hi Cookie, Are you recharging enough? I've been reading these threads about the mud in the bottom, sticking, etc., and it's been sounding like you've been letting the vibe continue for days like a barrel. Can't do that! For polish, I've tried several different things. BTW, I'm not sure I agree with those who prefer the vibe for polishing. Anyhoo, I've been using cerium, generally, but recently a vibe batch wouldn't take a mirror finish with cerium, but when I switched to the one that Raytech sells with their kits, which is Raybrite TL, I think, an aluminum oxide, they were ready in less than a half day. Zoom! I still follow the same basic proportions, one article that I read which made sense said that you are looking for just enough polish to coat the stones and stick to them. If you use too much water, the polish won't stick. Now, there are some contradictions out there about this. Shawn (The Rock Shed) has a nice article about vibes on their site, and he says that they use more water in their polish stage and that prevents chipping/surface damage in lieu of plastic pellets. However, major splashing happens and leakage if you put in much more water and you certainly can't partially cover the rocks. They may be using a different brand vibe, and that could account for this...so I usually add a bit more water, especially if it looks like they are moving too violently. Everything you read tells you not to use pellets in a vibe, they don't do anything. However I did add them once, when I thought I might be having problems with rocks clashing but really more because I thought I needed the pellets as a polish carrier. They do help with getting into the small areas especially when there are no tiny stones in the batch. I don't clean out the polish every 12 hours like I do with the grit. Usually after 12 add a little more polish and a little water if it needs it. Raytech says to change out the whole batch every 24 hours in polish but I'm not always even doing that, the polish seems to stay clean and the whole process is so fast that often in 24-48 it's done. I'll take out a few and wash them and look at them, if they are getting good leave them go. If it looks like I'm bombing out then I'll wash it all down, it's always possible there was cross contamination and this wash down will take care of it. I actually ran across some Borax in the supermarket today, and it's even on sale. I wasn't even looking for it, I've just been muddling on with different stuff I've got around, but since it was there I bought some.
|
|
|
Post by creativeminded on Jun 18, 2004 9:56:00 GMT -5
I found my Borax in the laundry isle at Wal-Mart.
Tami
|
|
|
Post by cookie3rocks on Jun 18, 2004 19:25:32 GMT -5
Hey Puppies, I'm recharging every 5 days or so and I check them everyday, mostly because my husband and just like to look at them. He's better at helping me determain how they are progressing, so I don't move on too fast. Yesterday I let the water settle off the grit (had recharged brand new the day before) and took out quite a bit of water. I've decided to get a turkey baster to make it easier. ;D About to go check them now.When I get to polish, which may be a while, I'll probably ask your advise again. Ploish is where I seem to loose it.
cookie
|
|
|
Post by puppie96 on Jun 19, 2004 3:01:54 GMT -5
Hi Cookie, If they are sticking in the mud in the bottom, bad things will happen. Bad for the bowl and for the motor, I have read. When I do my twice daily wash-it-out thing, there isn't any grit left. Nothing sharp at all. The mud is just mud and not doing anything to help the process. I've tried adding more grit & water on various schedules without the intervening washout and for the most part it doesn't work well to do that. Those have been the only times there was still unspent grit left; I think it was just getting stuck in the mud. Additives won't prevent this. All this is based on my own experience, of course, but most articles I've read on using vibes basically do the same as I do. If you are following the Raytech proportions of 2 tsp. of grit per charge and 2-4 tsp of water, you really aren't spending that much grit if you do this every 12 hours. A 3 lb. Lortone uses 4 tbsp, which is 12 teas., per run. That amount keeps the TV-5 in business for 3 days and considering the speed factor it's not uneconomical. The later stages take very little time at all. If you try an experiment, bite the bullet and wash it out more frequently, you might get a pleasant surprise with the speed of your process. It doesn't have to be a major super clean washout. Just make sure you clean all the gunk off the surface of the bowl and the exteriors of the rocks. Good Luck!
|
|