LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
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Post by LarryS on Mar 5, 2012 21:17:12 GMT -5
They're here! Teen was bitten today at a local high school while practicing discus throwing. Temp is 45/80 and they are out early this year. Look before you reach for that rock!
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Post by Rockhobbit on Mar 5, 2012 21:24:48 GMT -5
Not only are they out.............they are hungry!
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 5, 2012 22:05:32 GMT -5
Yep, early spring this year. In southern California I sometimes saw the most rattlers of the year when hiking in late February. Kind of cool to see a bunch on one hike but you do have to watch yourself....Mel
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Post by jakesrocks on Mar 5, 2012 22:12:28 GMT -5
Just remember not to reach or step where you can't see. Snake gaiters for walking and one of those long handled garden cultivators for reaching will help to keep you safe.
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LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
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Post by LarryS on Mar 6, 2012 1:03:12 GMT -5
Most people are bitten by messing around with them, like drunk city slickers out in the desert showing off to their friends. Funny thing, the snake always wins! Another nice thing to remember, about 20% of the strikes are dry strikes, no venom injected. Not very good odds! And yes, they are hungry and haven't eaten in a long time. Venom sacks are full.
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JUDY
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 431
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Post by JUDY on Mar 6, 2012 10:18:31 GMT -5
It's been an unseasonably warm winter across the desert southwest.... I doubt they went into hibernation at all this year... we have diamondback and green mohave rattlesnakes in my area - the green's scare me the most, they're aggressive and have a deadly neurotoxin venom, unlike the diamondback
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LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
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Post by LarryS on Mar 6, 2012 10:37:50 GMT -5
Yes Judy, Mojave Greens scare the heck out of me. Amazing how fast they move too! Read below:
Venom facts for rattlesnakes found in California
Sidewinder -- Venom is of moderate toxicity. Human lethal dose is 40 mg and people have died from envenomation. Average venom delivered per bite is 20-63 mg. Venom is still lethal to mice and cats after 27 years of storage. Venom causes deep tissue necrosis at site of bite. (Never seen one of these but have seen tracks in the sand.)
Speckled rattlesnake -- Venom is very potent. Minimum lethal dosage for 350 gram pigeon is 0.002-0.04 mg, for mice 0.05-0.12 mg. Adults contain up to 227 mg of venom (dry weight) but inject 0.16 mg. Dried venom potency undiminished after 27 years storage. (Seen lots of these, common in the East Mojave.)
Red diamond rattlesnake -- Long fangs (over 1/2 inch). Low in toxicity compared to other rattlesnakes but this is a large species capable of delivering large amounts of venom. Lethal dose for people is about 100 mg and 150-350 mg (up to 1.65 ml) is delivered per bite. People have died from envenomation. Lethality of venom decreases only slightly after 27 years, producing complete neuromuscular block of a cat diaphragm in 22 minutes. Tissue damaging properties of venom are 6-15 times greater in adults than juveniles. In one case history an adult man spent 9 days in the hospital (antivenom was administered) following a bite to the leg and was able to walk almost normally in two weeks. (Seen lots of these and are common in Riverside County where we live. Crazy buddy of mine use to keep them as pets in a cage!)
Southern Pacific rattlesnake (western rattlesnake) -- Venom primarily hemorrhagic (affecting blood) but some subspecies contain neurotoxic components. Toxicity of venom is greater than some larger species such as the western diamondback. This coupled with the high irritability of some individuals makes this a dangerous snake. Hemorrhagic, neurologic and proteolytic activity can all result from the same bite. Hemorrhagic activity in 18 minutes accompanied by some paralysis. Death in untreated cases may occur in 18 hours or up to 5 days. Lethal venom dose for humans is 70-160 mg and adults can produce up to 112 mg of venom (dried). Dried venom toxic to mice for at least 27 years. (Seen lots of these and for some reason, their venom is increasing in strength.)
Western diamond back rattlesnake -- Fangs over 1/2 inch in length. Venom highly hemorrhagic. 53% of the enzymes cause breakdown of the circulatory system, 17% are neurotoxic, and 30% digest proteins. Hemorrhaging from vascular breakdown occurs in only 6 minutes. Stored venom loses little potency after 17 years. Lethal dose to humans is about 100 mg and snakes may contain up to 300 mg (dried). One snake yielded 1,145 mg (3.9 ml liquid)! This species probably responsible for more human deaths than any other snake in the U. S. Symptoms following bites include intense burning, vomiting, breathing difficulties, lowered blood pressure, increased heart rate, and secondary gangrene infection. (Seen lots of these and almost got bitten by one. He became a snake skin trophy for my father's office. Good friend of ours got bitten by one of these in the hand and cost him around $20k in anti-venom shots about 15 years ago. Snake may not kill you but the hospital bill will!)
Mojave rattlesnake -- Neurotoxic venom is extremely virulent (10 times more toxic than any other rattlesnake in the U. S.) affecting heart, skeletal muscles and neuromuscular junctions. Once bite sufficient to kill a human: lethal dose is only 10-15 mg and one adult can yield 141 mg (dried). Death occurs in a high frequency of untreated cases. (Probably the most common rattler in the Mojave deserts and seen lots of these, too many! They freak me out and can ruin your day!)
Just remember, if you see a lot of rodent holes, most likely rattlesnakes are in the area. That's their food source. 99% of the rattlers I've come across did not rattle until aggravated and they are always trying to get away from you.
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Post by jakesrocks on Mar 6, 2012 10:46:44 GMT -5
Only messed with old Mr. Buzztail once. My oldest kid found himself standing next to one that was coiled under a bush and ready to strike. I went around to the other side of the bush to distract the snake. Told my kid to jump backwards out of range. Then I gathered all of the kids I had with me that day and had them stand at a safe distance. I teased the snake to get him started buzzing. Told the kids, " ya hear that sound ? Don't ever forget it ". I had heavy hiking boots on, so I stuck the sole of my boot out at the snake and let him strike at it. He hit it twice in the blink of an eye. Told the kids, " ya see how quick that strike is ? Don't ever forget that either ". I think those kids learned a whole new respect for Mr. Buzztail that day.
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Post by NatureNut on Mar 6, 2012 10:58:27 GMT -5
One should really consider snake proofing their dogs too. They put a snake in a bite proof cage where the dog can see and smell the snake and when the dog approaches, and the snake strikes the side of the cage and the dog is taught to run away fast. Jo
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LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
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Post by LarryS on Mar 6, 2012 11:27:11 GMT -5
Yes Don, once you hear the sound of one rattling and you have shivers running down your spine, you'll never forget it. Kids probably had nightmares too!
Jo, I'm not concerned about myself because I'm always on the lookout for them, even in the winter months. It's a nice habit to have. We've had local rattlers come out during the month of January a couple years ago during a brief heat spell, got up to 80 for a few days. With my luck, I'd get bitten by some mutant warm blooded species that lives in the snow! I'm very concerned about Goober. During snake season, he stays home. With his Terrier attitude, he'd go after the snake.
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Post by jakesrocks on Mar 6, 2012 11:50:08 GMT -5
Hey Larry, problem is what you hear rattling ain't always a snake. Out in the grasslands of S.D. the partridges during nesting season make a noise that's a perfect imitation of old Mr. Buzztail. Had the crap scared out of me twice a couple years ago. It was just a hen partridge standing a few yards away from her nest making that buzzing noise. Thought sure I was standing right next to a rattler.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 6, 2012 12:04:21 GMT -5
Hate snakes!!! Always around them when I hunt fossils in Montana,usually more of them in the Glendive,MT area(rattlers).................I just go wide around them,they do the same with me-LOL............. If I see a fossil in the bush,a stick goes in first to see if there's company in there with the fossil.......
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LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
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Post by LarryS on Mar 6, 2012 12:07:27 GMT -5
Don, that's not good for your blood pressure. You carry an extra pair of clean underwear?
Since all of us rock hounders romp around out in the field, it's a good idea to do a Google search and check out what snakes are in your area. Study the photos and you need to identify which snake it is. All anti-venoms are different and it will save your life.
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Post by jakesrocks on Mar 6, 2012 12:59:29 GMT -5
Don't wear underwear when I'm beatin the bushes. Just drop my pants and let it fly. lol . As for blood pressure, at 70 yrs. old the old ticker is still in pretty good shape. Wish I could say the same for the rest of me.
No matter how hot it is, I always wear heavy hiking boots and snake gaiters. The type with the flap that covers the toes of the boots. And I carry a 6' walking staff for rattling the bushes. I also strap on an old .38, with the first 3 rounds being snake shot.
Only had a couple of close scrapes with the buzz tail, and only had to shoot one. I'd crawled up a very narrow stream cut in search of the source of some almandine garnets. Somewhere between Riverside and Palm Springs. When I turned around to come back out of the cut, I hadn't gone but a few yards and found a big old western diamondback in my way. He wasn't moving, and I had no other way out. One of these days I'll get around to making a hat band out of his hide.
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Post by drocknut on Mar 6, 2012 13:13:30 GMT -5
Don, good thing it wasn't a rattler but I would have felt so relieved to see a bird rather than a rattler. Hope you didn't jump too high or run too fast...lol. Unfortunately I've met a few rattlers in Idaho up close and way too personal...lol. Glad I remembered what Animal Planet shows said about slowly backing away with no sudden movement. Glad they didn't say anything about not saying a few swear words too...lol. We have rattlers here too so it is a good idea to keep an eye out for them when out rockhounding, thanks for the reminder.
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LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
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Post by LarryS on Mar 6, 2012 17:53:06 GMT -5
Don, we live between Riverside & Palm Springs. In Hemet, at the base of Mt San Jacinto on the otherside of the mountain from Palm Springs. Only rocks we have around here is granite. It's cold today, only 60 and going to rain. Maybe the snakes that came out early will die of hypothermia!
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agatemaggot
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Member since August 2006
Posts: 2,195
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Post by agatemaggot on Mar 6, 2012 18:57:26 GMT -5
We have Timber Rattlers around my cabin area over on the Mississippi River and guess WHAT, some fools thought they needed to be on the protected specie list. I keep a snake hook in my boat shed and any I spot around the cabin get invited in for supper.
Protected my A$$ !
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Post by jakesrocks on Mar 6, 2012 19:45:37 GMT -5
Hey Larry, I'll see if I can google the location. I learned about it from an old guy at the Jurupa Mts. Cultural Center. Most of the garnets are too full of mica to be worth anything, and the ones that aren't are usually too dark for anything but cabbing. But every once in a while a clean one is found.
Can't find the exact spot on google maps, but it's off the 10 freeway, and somewhere just west of Cabazon. A lot has changed since I was last there around 17 years ago. Everything is full of roads and buildings now. I remember going in off of the 10, just west of a storage area for wind farm parts. Just past an old water tower you turned west and followed a dirt road to its end. Just beyond that was the start of the wash heading north into the hills. The cultural center used to take folks out there to screen garnets out of the sand at the bottom of the wash.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 6, 2012 21:46:39 GMT -5
I like snakes but have a healthy respect for rattlers as I've seen the damage done by a couple of bites. Used to have a lot of them at our Hornitos ranch in California. Made weed whacking really interesting every spring. I always have tongs and a snake bucket around so I'd just move them to the back of the ranch. I never handle poisonous snakes as that's virtually how most folks get bitten. Oddly, up in the gold country, rattlers seldom rattled. Red rattlers I've encountered were always docile as were sidewinders. Mojaves, which I've really seen a lot, are not friendly snakes and seem to mostly be moderately aggressive. Show up in the oddest places too. They like to climb a a lot and I've encountered them up in trees, cliffs, rockpiles and even found myself straddling one once as it hung in a creosote bush over by Lucerne Valley. CA. That one really got my attention fast. Thing that always impresses me with rattlers is just how deeply they bite. When I gave snake presentations for the Raptor Center. we had a real mean rattler we used to exhibit biting behavior. We'd hang a rubber glove full of hot water in front of the snake and man it would hit the glove. Venom would squirt inside and water would gush from the holes. Impressive delivery apparatus for venom!...Mel
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billg22
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 451
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Post by billg22 on Mar 7, 2012 0:47:15 GMT -5
What kind of snakes will be at the Tailgate in Victorville this weekend?
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