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Post by Pat on Oct 17, 2012 21:23:37 GMT -5
Jim, if you remember where that tute is, I'd like to see it. My catsup and mustard mookaite is what I changed from gold to red which I much prefer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 11:34:36 GMT -5
I am still looking Pat. I have been through ten pages of messages both sent and received and have come up with nothing yet. Jim
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Post by Toad on Oct 18, 2012 11:43:22 GMT -5
Neat experiment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 11:54:57 GMT -5
Here is a link to a pretty thorough recipe for a bunch of different stones. Scroll down until you get to a white page with the word recipe. Really good. Jim
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Post by Pat on Oct 18, 2012 11:58:58 GMT -5
Jim, where is the link?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 16:18:31 GMT -5
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Post by gingerkid on Oct 18, 2012 20:04:36 GMT -5
I was only half joking about cooking on stone but I recall a fondue restaurant in Denver They came out with big polish slab of hot stone that was used for heating various food types it was long time ago so not sure what type of stone it was probably granite hate cook on schist Ha Ha Was it Himalayan rock salt, Ed? I've seen pics of people cooking, seasoning and warming food on big pieces of it.
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Post by mohs on Oct 18, 2012 20:25:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure, Jan most likely not BUT !! That sounds like an excellent idea!!!
I'm going to look that up
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Post by Pat on Oct 21, 2012 16:48:04 GMT -5
Oops! Oven goes only to 350 F. Will go to Goodwill tomorrow. Sand is only $5, but it comes in 50 lb bags at the smallest size. Pet store has sand for $10 for three pounds, and it is colored. Don't want that.
Have a pan from the dollar store.
Is there anything I can use instead of sand? Kitty litter? Soil?
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Post by Pat on Oct 28, 2012 18:47:15 GMT -5
Ready! Toaster Oven from Goodwill $9, pan from Dollar Store, sand from ancient sand box from a friend. Mookaite is going in at the stage of the initial second photo and will heat to 150 for four hours. Check. Continue in the morning. Hope all the mustard turns to catsup! ;D
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Post by deb193redux on Oct 28, 2012 18:54:34 GMT -5
all those recipes say is several hundred degrees. a few as low as 300, most 400-500
some rock type are EXTREMELY generic (e.g., petrified woos)
there is also a reason KNAPERS did this. it does make some stones more brittle, and can affect how it polishes.
be sure to test a few slabs before doing a large amount.
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Post by Pat on Oct 28, 2012 19:44:08 GMT -5
Daniel, I'm cooking only the one piece of mookaite I started with. I don't know what you mean by "some rock types are extremely generic".
This is an experiment. Whatever comes out of the oven will be a complete surprise.
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Post by deb193redux on Oct 28, 2012 20:51:09 GMT -5
I should have have said, "some rock types they list are not very precise" I am suggesting the list is not as informative as was represented)
for example, there are many types of petrified wood with all kids of impurities that might change with heat.
I think my caution was not for you Pat, but for anyone reading this thread or seeing that link and thinking that experiments were not necessary
good luck with your Mookite
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Post by Pat on Oct 28, 2012 21:52:54 GMT -5
Good point.
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Post by mohs on Oct 28, 2012 22:18:15 GMT -5
slow roasted mook with a side of pet gnoc a rocking feast! mostly toasty
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Post by Pat on Oct 30, 2012 13:37:25 GMT -5
After 7 hours at 450F in the toaster oven, in sand, I got the red I wanted. Actually, any red would do. Don't like the mustard that was there. The dark color is a black-green. Will have to find another rock of bad color...
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mjflinty
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 358
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Post by mjflinty on Oct 30, 2012 15:31:22 GMT -5
As a knapper I heat treat chert, jasper and agate often. The main goal is the same... to make the stone easier to chip. The bonus for most materials is a higher gloss when chipped, color change, and more control over the conchoidal fracture. I wear an archaeologist hat during the day so I can tell you exactly what happens to the stone when it is heated too; the stone undergoes a sort of "recrystallization" process, the material surrounding the silica grains (called flux) will basically melt. The melting of the flux causes oxidation so, browns becomes reds and any air space will be gone leading to the higher gloss. Humans figured all this out about 20,000 years ago.
As a lapidary, I have worked lots of material that I heated for knapping. The only noticeable thing will be a reduction in the strength of the stone... it will grind away faster. This is true for heated stone knives too... the edges wears faster than raw rock.
Over heating stone is very possible. You can heat it too quickly and it will explode. The water molecules in the stone will get very excited and cause "pot lids" to come flying off the surface of the stone. If the stone gradually gets way too hot it will go beyond heat treated to what we call crazed. Crazed rock is gravel, it has lost all of its internal structure and if full of micro fractures.
Most siliceous rocks will heat in the 350 to 500 degree range. The best results will come from a gradual heating; I like to start them at 250 for an hour and then raise the temp 50 degrees per hour till I reach my max temp. Then I hold that temp for 4-5 hours. The stone will need to cool down gradually too. Let it sit in the roaster for at least 8 hours or till the sand is cool to touch. If they cool too quick you can get crazed and nobody wants that.
Keep on experimenting! Michael
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Post by Pat on Oct 30, 2012 17:36:38 GMT -5
Michael, thanks for all the advice and information.
Can you suggest stones that will deepen the color, now that I've changed the color on one. How about a faded amethyst?
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mjflinty
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 358
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Post by mjflinty on Oct 31, 2012 7:46:30 GMT -5
I can't say I've ever heated amethyst... it's not something that would have improved knapability seeing that it is just silica.
I'm certainly curious what would happen if it was heated. I recall from my geology classes that the amethyst color develops due to heat; if it gets really hot it turns to citrine (I think).
Michael
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Post by Pat on Oct 31, 2012 8:48:08 GMT -5
I think amethyst will either fade more or deepen. I know it will fade if put in a sunny window. I'll try it.
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