rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Jan 17, 2013 1:52:58 GMT -5
Hi, all - I'm building my own large slab saw from scrap metal I've collected over the years. I drilled out a hole for the arbor to go into the chassis and mounted a beefy L-bracket with a pillow block bearing on it and a 4-bolt pillow bearing on the outside of the box. It's set for a 14" blade but I have marked hole locations in case I find a good deal on an 18" one later on.
Anyhow, the sump has a slanted bottom with a 5" wide "V" shaped pocket at the end. As I was looking at my handy (yeah, right! lol) work, I decided that maybe I ought to have more oil in the thing so I wouldn't have to clean out the oil all the time. Thing is, that would end up sinking the blade a bit more than an inch, inch and a half into the oil. It doesn't seem to me that that should cause any problems other than the blade slinging a lot of oil around but I need to be sure.
Can anyone tell me if this would cause problems? Thanks, Rick
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jan 17, 2013 8:45:37 GMT -5
Hey Rick, Too much oil can cause excessive wear on the drive train of your saw. Oil, even mineral oil, is thick and as such will cause drag on the blade and all of the drive components all the way back to the motor. There should be no more than 1/2 inch covering the bottom of the blade. If you want more oil in your saw your only option is to increase the depth of the sump. As it is, if you increase from a 14" to an 18" blade you will have to lower the oil level in your saw to avoid the same issue from happening.
Is this an immediate , turn on the saw and it explodes, type scenario? no, but it is what happens when you have too much oil, and can cause the blade to lock up in the stone being cut, but probably won't. You will, however, find every hole in your saw when you turn it because that much oil will find every hole in the saw to leak out, and there will be oil dripping, when you open the hood, for quite a while too!
If you really want to increase oil capacity, I would recommend an external oil sump with a pump to spray both sides of the blade that way you have the extra oil you want and the blade isn't buried in it. Plus the saw itself will stay cleaner... you just need to setup a system that allows the oil to be used while the sediment settles out.
Good Luck & keep us up to date with your progress!
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 17, 2013 8:50:14 GMT -5
What Mario said. If you want a larger volume of oil you can use a submersible pump and external container. That would keep the oil cooler as well.
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cherdarock
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2012
Posts: 140
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Post by cherdarock on Jan 18, 2013 4:11:52 GMT -5
I am wondering too then, I have a raytech 10" slabber, and I use a very thin pro-cut blade. The deck is quite large, and the sump is a plastic tub type insert that has a "bowl" bottom. If I have a half inch of blade in the oil, when I turn it on, it slings the oil out onto the pan, and the drainback barely keeps the blade slinging enough. I then get some very hot cut. If I am slinging an excess, I get cool cuts, and I can speed the feed. (?)
I like the idea of a dry sump, drainback to a large vacuum filtering system, 3-5 qt. supply with an oil mister, or even a drip system...
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Jan 18, 2013 7:01:38 GMT -5
Cherdarock, thank for asking that question & Mario thanks for such an easier to understand explanation! I did not know that!
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blackout5783
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 248
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Post by blackout5783 on Jan 18, 2013 8:47:04 GMT -5
I am wondering too then, I have a raytech 10" slabber, and I use a very thin pro-cut blade. The deck is quite large, and the sump is a plastic tub type insert that has a "bowl" bottom. If I have a half inch of blade in the oil, when I turn it on, it slings the oil out onto the pan, and the drainback barely keeps the blade slinging enough. I then get some very hot cut. If I am slinging an excess, I get cool cuts, and I can speed the feed. I have the same saw and the same problem. I probably run it with 1/2 gal+ of oil most of the time just to have enough to keep the blade cool. Had to replace the gasket to keep all the oil where its supposed to be. When I first posted that I got that saw, someone mentioned that they saw a mod for it to help with the drainage issue. Basically drill a bunch of holes. I haven't been ambitious enough to try yet.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 18, 2013 11:41:52 GMT -5
Table saw style trim/slab saws pretty much all have cooling problems with the low volumes of oil/coolant in the sump if a person tries to use them for higher volume slabbing. A recirculating system for that style of saw would be a challenge. Frequent cleaning to keep the oil as clean as possible is necessary with the small saws.
Lee
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cherdarock
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2012
Posts: 140
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Post by cherdarock on Jan 20, 2013 1:33:53 GMT -5
My drainage is fairly good, alot of the oil getting flung and dropping back before getting more than an inch past the slot. Hard to see, this is the saw under way, oil a drippin' (Yes thats a justrite carbide lamp, pretty spiffy condition... lol) I DO cut alot of jasper. The pro-cut blades dont have a real pronounced kerf. I also have the oily jasper mud that can pack in the diamond and that will interfere with cutting efficiency. BTW I also use 5W-20 motor oil. My last procut blade went over 200 cuts, and is still sharp, I changed out for a blade that is thinner. I cut a variety of materials, I believe "oil agate" was the most difficult. Large and small both tried to stall me. Now I also incorporated a multi voltage transformer for the auto feed motor. This allows me to slow the feed to a crawl if necessary, or with 5 increments, BLAZE through smaller or softer stones. The motor was replaced with a HD 3/4 HP, but raytech used a poor pully setup. The drive will be replaced with a smaller pully to increase the torque at the arbor
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rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Jan 22, 2013 2:13:28 GMT -5
Thanks 4 the advice, y'all. I reckon I could just put a little less oil in the sump to keep from burying the blade. I wanted to keep it as high as possible because I will also have a Teel pump spraying the blade along with the sump and wanted to make sure it was submerged enough. I think i can finesse it. Here's a couple of pix of what I've got so far: The pump is just set there and still needs to be screwed down, plumbed, and wired. Looks like the sump will be somewhere around 7 to 10 gallons. The bottom slopes towards the back and there is a 4in deep and 5in wide V shaped "pocket" that drops off and *should* keep most all of the debris trapped there and away from the pump. There is now a high baffle wall alongside the pump pedestal but I don't have a pic since i just did it last night. The leading edge of the pedestal is also angled in so that anything that tries to come around the wall without getting trapped in the pocket will have to go up 3in and backwards at a sharp angle. I'm thinking of putting a fine paint strainer across the top entrance to the pedestal as sort of a *dam* to catch some of the finer dust. C-ya, Rick
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 22, 2013 8:55:14 GMT -5
The "1/2" up the blade" is a little misleading. You need to cover the bottom cutting rim. At that level you should have a fast drip at the blade guard without slinging oil. On small saws tou need to keep sludge cleaned out. I'm still not understanding why you are building it with both a pump and splash systems. You will find all the leaks for sure.
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cherdarock
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2012
Posts: 140
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Post by cherdarock on Jan 23, 2013 16:10:50 GMT -5
Realize too that as your saw cuts wet, you don't get dust, you get mud/goo/sludge etc. A LOT will settle out on the deck as the oil drains back. It can get insideous, that teel might also have a heckuva time as the sludge doesn't seem to have trouble sticking or coating. keep a rock/cut record and do whatcha can to keep the mud n' crud to a minimum. use VM&P naphtha when you clean, and make abbaLOOTLY sure it is dry before adding the new oil!
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<'))))>< Fish
Cave Dweller
Gone Fishing
Member since April 2005
Posts: 1,841
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Post by <'))))>< Fish on Jan 26, 2013 15:23:10 GMT -5
You keep the oil level no more than 1/4 inch above the saw., I agree with John
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Post by phil on Jan 26, 2013 16:56:01 GMT -5
Hi gang..... when you say 1/4 or 1/2 inch oil, Do you mean cover the diamond area plus 1/2 inch ? You don't really leave the diamond partially uncovered do you?
Thanks! Phil
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<'))))>< Fish
Cave Dweller
Gone Fishing
Member since April 2005
Posts: 1,841
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Post by <'))))>< Fish on Jan 27, 2013 11:23:34 GMT -5
The blade should be 1/4 in the oil
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 27, 2013 11:27:08 GMT -5
You need to cover the rim bottom. If the rim is 1/4" then 1/4". If 3/16" then 3/16". If 1/2" then 1/2". No magic number just cover rim. Blade will pick up coolant as it turns.
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Post by Pat on Jan 27, 2013 16:31:59 GMT -5
Good rule of thumb. I assume that goes for water saws, too. Is that right?
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rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Jan 29, 2013 16:43:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice, y'all. I'll answer a few things. The dual coolant system is just to make DARN sure that I get as smooth a cut as possible. The spray should wash debris away from the cut much quicker and keep the point of the cut as cool as possible. Having two simultaneous coolant sources also provides redundancy to the system. If the pump fails or the nozzles (there will be two - redundancy!) get clogged, the sump will still supply adequate coolant to the blade. Probably overkill but you develop that habit over years of working on NASA and military projects, ya know?
Anyhow, I went and moved the arbor up so that it doesn't bury the blade in the oil. Better also because it will allow for more coolant volume to dissipate more heat since I have the opposite problem here in FLA from y'all up north and need to keep the oil cool rather than warmed up.
("Say, hold up there, Rykkster - What's that big ol' hole doing there an inch or so under the one yer arbor is stickin' thru? Didn't end up having to cludge the thing, didja hotshot?" -- "Why no sir, now that you mention it - that hole is there in case I want to install a TEN INCH BLADE somewhere down the line! I ALWAYS measure twice, drill once, and plan for ALL contingencies." LOL)
I'm pondering the idea of using mineral oil or maybe using a water based coolant to keep the smell down. Don't know what I could add to the water to prevent corrosion, though. Any ideas? C-ya, Rick
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Post by parfive on Jan 29, 2013 18:14:51 GMT -5
Rick - Got a model no. for that "Teel" pump?
Specs?
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jan 29, 2013 19:58:29 GMT -5
comment removed because I re-read it and it made no sense to me !!!!
LOL
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jan 29, 2013 20:05:08 GMT -5
Good rule of thumb. I assume that goes for water saws, too. Is that right? Yes, the Diamond portion of the blade should always be covered as this is where the heat buildup occurs. the rest of the blade will try to draw the heat away as it spins and will, to a point, cool with a combination of air and fluid.
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