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Post by texaswoodie on Feb 7, 2013 10:06:40 GMT -5
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Feb 7, 2013 12:01:25 GMT -5
gave me a big refund check for my healthcare last year
charlie
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Post by mohs on Feb 7, 2013 12:38:56 GMT -5
I got sick just reading about Obama Care mostly
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 7, 2013 13:01:46 GMT -5
I'll never use it!!!
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
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Post by robsrockshop on Feb 7, 2013 20:03:29 GMT -5
I don't have a problem at all with bashing Obama. As long as you can provide an intelligent, factual presentation of why Romney would have been a better choice. Don't waste your time trying, not with me anyhow.
My beliefs are more in the conspiracy realms, not quit as overboard as the tinhat crowd at Prisonplanet but more so along the lines of zerohedge.com.
There is entirely too much going on to pinpoint one person as the big problem.
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
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Post by robsrockshop on Feb 7, 2013 20:08:29 GMT -5
And btw when asked why im a conspiracy theorist I always answer 'because there are a lot of conspiracies out there'. LOL. Just look at the proof of all the things that the gov't has done that has come out over it's entire existence and now somehow people think that we are more civilized than that nowadays is a ludicrous suggestion at best. They're all in on it. mittromneycentral.com/resources/romneycare/
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Feb 7, 2013 20:24:57 GMT -5
Charlie: Just curious, where did a big refund for your healthcare come from and how does that work? Or is this just you blowing smoke and sticking up for your hero, cause I think you must be the only person with medical insurance I know of who has not had theirs go way up *L*. I was not even aware Obamacare was in full effect as of yet and my insurance has not only skyrocketed so much I had to get a cheaper plan but my wife lost her doctor who no longer takes any insurance at all. So clue us in Charlie so we can all get them big ole bucks back *L*.....Mel
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Post by parfive on Feb 7, 2013 20:50:12 GMT -5
“There is entirely too much going on to pinpoint one person as the big problem.” Or even one noun. ;D Oligarchy Plutocracy Cabal
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 7, 2013 21:00:00 GMT -5
Mel I think the refund is a premium refund required by obamacare if the insurance co pays out less than a set percentage of revenue in benefits. In other words Charlie and the rest of this companies customers were a bit healthier than average this year. Of course next year if it goes the other way they won't be able to take the money back. In addition to the 2% loss in take home from the end of the social security "tax cut" buy the presidency scam, my take home was reduced another 3.5% by increases in my health insurance premiums. A 5.5% pay cut.
Lee
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Post by texaswoodie on Feb 7, 2013 21:14:18 GMT -5
And btw when asked why im a conspiracy theorist I always answer 'because there are a lot of conspiracies out there'. LOL. Just look at the proof of all the things that the gov't has done that has come out over it's entire existence and now somehow people think that we are more civilized than that nowadays is a ludicrous suggestion at best. They're all in on it. mittromneycentral.com/resources/romneycare/I'm not a Romney fan but we will never know if he cold have done better will we? At least Romney was focused on the economy. Something Obama never even thinks of. How do I know? State of the Union Address for one. Yup, I believe you. They are all in on it. It's just that one side wants to take us to oblivion faster than the other side does. Curt
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 7, 2013 21:50:14 GMT -5
Wow Lee, I should be getting enough back to buy that 36" saw. Haven't seen a doctor since 2001.
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Post by helens on Feb 7, 2013 22:08:00 GMT -5
Charlie: Just curious, where did a big refund for your healthcare come from and how does that work? Or is this just you blowing smoke and sticking up for your hero, cause I think you must be the only person with medical insurance I know of who has not had theirs go way up *L*. I was not even aware Obamacare was in full effect as of yet and my insurance has not only skyrocketed so much I had to get a cheaper plan but my wife lost her doctor who no longer takes any insurance at all. So clue us in Charlie so we can all get them big ole bucks back *L*.....Mel How it works is that Obamacare limits an insurance company's profits to 15% of their collected premiums. That is, 85% of premiums must go for customers actual medical care. Anything over that is refunded the customer in a check every year. If your insurance company paid out more than 85% for your pool, then you get no refund, if less than you do. This beats the 40+% profits the Insurance companies were collecting before.
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Post by mohs on Feb 7, 2013 22:09:00 GMT -5
don't forget nepotism which I have no influence born poor-went out-- a little worse off mostly
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Feb 7, 2013 23:02:00 GMT -5
Well, dang. I almost never go to the doctor but I guess Blue Cross/Blue Shield must have a bunch of unhealthy folks cause I sure have never ever gotten any kind of refund *L*.....Mel
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Post by helens on Feb 8, 2013 0:00:02 GMT -5
Well, dang. I almost never go to the doctor but I guess Blue Cross/Blue Shield must have a bunch of unhealthy folks cause I sure have never ever gotten any kind of refund *L*.....Mel That means you underpaid for your insurance. Our family of 4 pay $20,000 a year for a 'family' policy. Without kids, for 2 of us, it's a measly $14,000 a year. How much is your insurance? If you paid less than $14,000 a year, your premium deserves to go up to $20,000, because you guys are older than we are, so your premiums would be higher. We never go to the doctor either. Had Romney won, you'd have gotten a voucher for $8,000 a year that would only go up with the cost of CPI and NOT actual medical costs. Then, as premiums continued to rise, you'd pay out of pocket the difference. Within 5 years, premiums would be around $25,000 at a guess, for those over 65, and up more every year. And the gov't would keep covering only $8000 of it. That's premiums, not the 20% copay you have, plus your $50 per visit copay to see a doctor each time. A minimum health care cost for an elderly person would be $50,000 out of pocket a year I'd guess, assuming they have 1 'illness' every 5 years or so til they die. How many Seniors net $50,000 a year from Social Security if they had no other income? I can't believe you guys are not grateful we didn't get the Ryan Plan. Not a catchy name, but calling it the accurate 'Euthanasia Plan' probably wouldn't have sold well.
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 8, 2013 1:42:30 GMT -5
Charlie: Just curious, where did a big refund for your healthcare come from and how does that work? Or is this just you blowing smoke and sticking up for your hero, cause I think you must be the only person with medical insurance I know of who has not had theirs go way up *L*. I was not even aware Obamacare was in full effect as of yet and my insurance has not only skyrocketed so much I had to get a cheaper plan but my wife lost her doctor who no longer takes any insurance at all. So clue us in Charlie so we can all get them big ole bucks back *L*.....Mel How it works is that Obamacare limits an insurance company's profits to 15% of their collected premiums. That is, 85% of premiums must go for customers actual medical care. Anything over that is refunded the customer in a check every year. If your insurance company paid out more than 85% for your pool, then you get no refund, if less than you do. This beats the 40+% profits the Insurance companies were collecting before. Ummm, Helen, you forgot to mention that the formula used to come up with 40% is not the same as the one used in Obamacare. Also interesting how the insurance companies contributed so much more to his re-election. The only ones losing here are the people. I don't expect to see the executive order that places all government employees, including congress and the administration on Obamacare. Guess the politburo is just a little more equal than the rest of us. Lee
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Post by helens on Feb 8, 2013 11:50:25 GMT -5
Lee, Insurance companies SUCK. The REASON every other nation on earth besides Russia and China have Universal Health Care is that people with limited incomes already should not have to pay a middleman for what they need to live.
It's why water is a MUNICIPAL (aka Government) controlled operation in areas without their own wells. Even food used to be regulated... although now, with the Corporate bought subsidies and the allowing of everyone to get involved in the formerly controlled Commodities exchange, Corporations can drive up food prices at will. This was Bush's deregulation at work. Thank Bush for your increased food prices, now that they are traded and can go up and down for no reason, corporations now control the prices of our food because of 'deregulation'.
When Gov't controlled food costs, life was much better, and price increases more predictable. Yet the 'controls'... food subsidies, simply turned into free money for Corporate farms instead. Thank God the Republicans didn't get to commodity our water too, and water is still a Government run operation.
"Private" enterprise exist to enrich themselves. Nothing wrong with that. But they are people, and often, the most unscrupulous people get further ahead. When those unscrupulous people control the key elements for human life, we have a problem. Thus we had Gov't control. That way that control over our lives was spread around to a group of people who hopefully will not stay in power long enough to excessively profit from the areas of the economy that hold people enslaved.
OF COURSE there would be some theft and under the table stuff... but no one watches what Corporations do under the table, Gov't officials are accountable when caught, Corporations have zero oversight at all. There is no catching what they do, so of course they want 'deregulation', so they can do it at will, without consequences. As you see with some food prices now. Food, water, healthcare. "Deregulation" came to food under Bush, and we had been living under deregulated health care before, with the sole exception of Medicare. Medicare is what the current Republicans want removed, it's the last thing they can profit from. Medicare costs the most expensive segment of our population an average of $2000 a year in premiums. Rest of us pay an average of $10,000 a year each. Rest of us being the healthiest segment of the population. HOW MUCH profit for Insurance companies is that? And you want that for Medicare and the elderly too? THIS is how effective Corporate propaganda actually is, when you will vote to harm yourselves and your families.
Obamacare was a compromise that would hopefully lead to Universal, without outright firing every single person in the Health Insurance industry and bankrupting every single Insurance company overnight. Forcing Insurance companies to pay out 85% of that was a start, but as Lee pointed out, the Insurance corporations simply redid the formula and thus 'cheated' anyway. Cheating to make money is the Corporate way... the Mortgage fiasco and bank bailouts were examples of that.
Obamacare is reputed to be the same thing the Federal Gov't is on already. It is a terrible system, and I'd rather see Universal Health Care immediately. Just let us all sign up for Medicare, and with the influx of healthy people in the least sick age brackets, Medicare would become solvent, prices would drop for everyone. The downside is the wholesale destruction of one of the most profitable industries in the USA, the Insurance industry. Of course we couldn't go to Universal overnight, it would have exacerbated Unemployment, and damaged the Economy further.
Yes, the Insurance companies contribute to elections. HUGE HUGE HUGE amounts. That's the entire problem with our current Electoral system, allowing Corporations whose entire goal is to make PROFIT to control people's lives and ability to survive. Until we have real Campaign reform, it will keep happening too. Further, they have armies of the best psychologically trained marketing people to brainwash people into helping them with their 'deregulation'. Of course they want all the cops fired, so they can rape pillage and steal to their hearts content. Smearing those who try to do good, and praising those who try to harm us, they have done an incredible job of dividing this nation.
The solution is Campaign reform, which is wholly in Congress's power... a Congress owned by Corporations. How do you fix that?
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Post by helens on Feb 8, 2013 11:58:22 GMT -5
What the Corporations want is to return to the system we had 100 years ago. When people were forced to live in 'company housing', where they could charge your entire income for rent, and force you to pay more for food than you make, going further and further into debt. Where children were forced to work because what parents made was not enough. A return to Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle".
They are writing articles complaining about the USDA... the organization that oversees the quality of our food, that ensures that we are limited to X % of rat feces in our food, or offal in our sausages, or forbidding dead or sick cows to get processed at the meat plants to get sold to unknowing consumers at the grocery store.
Down with the USDA. Perhaps those who did not read "The Jungle", which depicted actual life before the USDA should consider what happens when every sick and dead cow found on a ranch gets processed in our meats, and your children eat it, because there is no regulation anymore to consider that consequence. Or when hormones fed to chickens and milk cows end up as 1% of the milk we feed our babies and eggs we feed them for breakfast. Beware what you ask for.
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Post by helens on Feb 8, 2013 12:25:28 GMT -5
Here is the perfect example of this... today's article from the BBC. In the UK, their USDA equivalent caught processors putting horsemeat in processed food: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21379587The USDA has already faced cutbacks. They have like 1 inspector to cover VAST swaths of the US, so that they cannot be at every processing plant every day as it is. Just imagine if there were NO inspector. How do you know they aren't scrapping the crud off their shoes to dump in your sausage and hamburger meat, when absolutely no one ever goes there to see what they are doing to the meat again? No more inspectors... Instantly the price of food drops, because now they can even use the content of cow stomachs to pad the weight of the 'meat' they sell, and every lb of dead cow brought in from the field or week old coyote killed calf can be thrown in the sausage grinder? Suddenly the price of meat goes way down, because there will no longer be waste. We will eat the waste, with lots of spices in the sausage. Guess what? If you hate the USDA, roadkill is cheaper still, why pay for meat at all if you hate verification that you are actually eating fresh meat? There is no need to worry about the price of meat if you want to be rid of the USDA. But the rest of us would rather pay for inspected meat, so yes, I'd like more regulation of my food. I don't want to eat cow/horse shit in my hamburgers, hotdogs, or sausages.
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Post by texaswoodie on Feb 8, 2013 12:55:34 GMT -5
Yum, roadkill, especially aged armadillo.
Curt
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