Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on May 24, 2013 12:12:05 GMT -5
I'm not too computer savvy so hope this link can get y'all to this article. Like they have a tendency to say, as California goes, so goes the nation and if the nation keeps going down the path we're on, this is where we are heading. The link goes to the general site and the article I'm talking about is the Good Bye California article. This was of special interest to me as my pop's branch of the family all lived in California's central valley in small towns like Orange Cove and Orosi. Still have cousins, nieces and nephews there. MY best friend still lives there. And of course, our ranch was in the Sierra foothills just above the valley so I traveled the area constantly. Anyway, kind of a long article but interesting and explains much of the reason I left the state for Texas.....Mel Here's the link: rense.com/general92/goodd.htm Sorry, I could not seem to make it clickable so it will have to be typed into your search engine. Never mind, I fixed the link...Mel
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 12:15:32 GMT -5
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on May 24, 2013 12:25:29 GMT -5
Thanks Scott, I finally managed to figure it out *L*....Mel
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 12:33:31 GMT -5
wow.
In 2006 a friend in Goshen, CA (Visalia's ghetto) was shot for the high crime of renting a camper shell to someone's ex-wife. She and a baby were living in the camper shell in exchange for $100 a month and 10 hours a week working on the farm. The husband was pissed and shot my buddy. This gentleman had a large snake collection and I went up there to buy it. I was there a day and a half identifying, pricing, logging and packing animals. It seems the best lunch in town was out the kitchen window of a woman down the street, She sold tacos and burritos out an open window on the north side of her house. She had a hand painted a sign at the entrance to the driveway "TACOS". $1 a taco bring your own drinks, she was crowded. Husband grilling asada and al pastor out the back of the house, abuela slapping hand made tortillas with the woman prepping and selling out the window. Food was excellent.
This exactly mirrors the experience of your blog author.
Goshen is an ugly place.
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Post by helens on May 24, 2013 22:08:52 GMT -5
That was an interesting read.
Actually, I've read similar before from others about California. So I can actually appreciate your viewpoint. Something's DEFINITELY wrong with California... but that's NOT what happens elsewhere.
In Florida, we have the opposite problem. They used to run a weekly bus to Mexico from Central Florida. Every week, the people INS and local police rounded up and sitting in the detention center would get put on the buses, and shipped back across the border.
INS agents here were going on half finished hurricane damaged roofs, and arresting the roofers, and putting the companies out of business then and there... and the homeowner who waited 2 months for a roofing company would lose their 50% money, and have no roof, sometimes open to the sky becauee they only tore the roof off, and didn't put any on before the INS showed up to cart the only roofers in Florida away. Right after the hurricanes that tore the roofs off.
They took Mexicans from fields while they were picking crops that had a short window to be picked, because they knew migrants were there, wholesale destroying small farmer's crops. Many of those farmers moved their businesses to Mexico, where their workers were. White people don't want to pick oranges or avacados all day... their crops rotted and they sold their land for subdivisions.
Many of those Mexicans they hauled off owned homes... which became abandoned... and naturally had to be foreclosed, because their owners were gone. That actually started Florida's real estate disaster, when it was decided in 2005-2006 that the illegals who picked our food, and fixed our roofs had to GO.
But we don't have anywhere NEAR the number of Mexicans that you did in California. And if they MADE it to Florida from California, they were hard working very very motivated people who could individually outwork 3 white men. Lazy Mexicans wouldn't bother making the trip... Florida has NO social services... with just Federal money, they'd starve to death, just like white people who lose their jobs.
The Federal handout is $275 a week for Unemployment, and you MUST have a computer to file for it weekly here. I have no idea what they give out for food stamps, but I have read it's impossible to live on for a normal person (reporter tried it for a month and nearly starved to death according to him). That's all. There's no other Federal handout beyond milk for babies that I know of.
So I'm guessing that California the STATE is giving these people free handouts, and it doesn't seem like anyone else does, which is why you like Texas so much, right? California needs to do something about that, that sounds like complete BS, and if I were there, I'd be screaming about it too.
What the HECK then does this have to do with your hatred for the Obama Admin? The result of survival on Federal dollars is entire families living in boxes in the parks here, for the crime of the parent(s) losing their jobs. I saw it, it's fugly, and I never want to see it again.
The Fed did less for these people than Sally Fields and Angelina Jolie do for people in Africa. I'm still wondering where all this Federal largesse you keep talking about is GOING, because it sure wasn't to Florida.
The Fed can't do ANYTHING about what STATES do for people there.
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Post by Rockoonz on May 25, 2013 1:54:59 GMT -5
Sorry, Helen, but that's a load of crap, some of it, anyway. I don't know about your overzealous ICE agents since I don't live there, but they sure don't exist in the west. While I would agree that Mexican people are hard workers, other than the meth runners ( I have a story, true but too long for now), saying an individual is a harder worker because they are more adept at basic manual labor is a bit of a stretch. From my read of the article below it seems that FL has filing options other than the internet. www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/collecting-unemployment-benefits-florida-32505.htmlThe "jobs that Americans won't do" line is hogwash as well. I started picking fruit at 11, it was nice to have an income and got me out of bucking hay bales for my dad, which I started at 9yo. Ridiculous labor laws moved it up to 14 or older, the immigrant labor replaced it and we lost a training tool for our kids. I'm not talking going back to child labor in sweatshops here, but rolling some of it back and giving our youth a little OJT would be good. I have family and friends left in CA as well, and they are all looking for a way out. Talked to my tax accountant today and they are real busy moving business "HQ's" to Texas and other business friendly states. Pretty soon all that's left will be those recieving government benefits, imagine that can't go on for long. Lee
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Post by susand24224 on May 25, 2013 2:08:09 GMT -5
Lee, perhaps where you live the locals are willing to do the harder farm work in large numbers, but where I am in central Washington, that's simply not true. The local orchards and ag. businesses are happy to tell you that. On several occasions I have had to interview people who hire (usually) undocumented workers in the course of representing them. On each such occasion when I was inquiring into status checks, social security payments, etc., I have been advised that basically there are not enough documented workers to go around.
I'm sure there are exceptions. But the bottom line is that many of the undocumented workers in this area are "seasonal," many work very hard and send most of their money to Mexico to help support siblings, parents, their own children, etc. and it is no myth that the jobs are very hard and ICE agents are on their tail.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on May 25, 2013 8:01:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I do agree with Susan about the AG workers. having worked for the AG dept 30 years, I can say that the actual harvest jobs do not seem to be the cup of tea for workers other than Hispanics. I did some picking myself as a youth and believe me, I could not wait to get a better job *L*. However, in California at least, the illegals are stealing many more skilled jobs from legal residents who would lie those same jobs. In AG, lots of non seasonal jobs, gardening, pest control, equipment operators, fork lift guys, packing shed personnel and construction jobs are all great jobs and often filled by illegals,
In addition, in California, the influx of illegals has strained schools, bankrupted hospitals, made the roads more dangerous ( lots of new drunk drivers) and as the gentleman said in his article, trashed the entire countryside. It's almost like an Amerind midden culture, I've never seen so much littering in my life as in rural California. The gentleman also did not mention gangs and drugs in his article. One of thee reasons I moved was we had Hispanics move a crack house into our neighborhood ( a nice neighborhood too) with it's attendant pit bulls and drive by shootings and we started seeing many more daytime burglaries.
Helen, I'm sure every state differs according to it's needs. My Obama comment was related to his support for amnesty which seems to be drawing back the hordes of illegals that the bad economy had for awhile reduced. The 12 million folks he's talking about adding to our country, if he has his way, will probably wind up being 24 million and cost the country trillions in the long because illegals tend to be poorly educated unskilled folks that use a lot of social services. While this is good for you Democrats as these folks are a massive new pool of folks that sell your party their votes, it does not necessarily bode well for the working folks who are legal citizens. Reagan said amnesty for illegals was the on of the things he regretted sponsoring once he observed the effects....Mel
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Post by jakesrocks on May 25, 2013 8:24:42 GMT -5
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Post by helens on May 25, 2013 9:33:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I do agree with Susan about the AG workers. having worked for the AG dept 30 years, I can say that the actual harvest jobs do not seem to be the cup of tea for workers other than Hispanics. I did some picking myself as a youth and believe me, I could not wait to get a better job *L*. However, in California at least, the illegals are stealing many more skilled jobs from legal residents who would lie those same jobs. In AG, lots of non seasonal jobs, gardening, pest control, equipment operators, fork lift guys, packing shed personnel and construction jobs are all great jobs and often filled by illegals, In addition, in California, the influx of illegals has strained schools, bankrupted hospitals, made the roads more dangerous ( lots of new drunk drivers) and as the gentleman said in his article, trashed the entire countryside. It's almost like an Amerind midden culture, I've never seen so much littering in my life as in rural California. The gentleman also did not mention gangs and drugs in his article. One of thee reasons I moved was we had Hispanics move a crack house into our neighborhood ( a nice neighborhood too) with it's attendant pit bulls and drive by shootings and we started seeing many more daytime burglaries. Helen, I'm sure every state differs according to it's needs. My Obama comment was related to his support for amnesty which seems to be drawing back the hordes of illegals that the bad economy had for awhile reduced. The 12 million folks he's talking about adding to our country, if he has his way, will probably wind up being 24 million and cost the country trillions in the long because illegals tend to be poorly educated unskilled folks that use a lot of social services. While this is good for you Democrats as these folks are a massive new pool of folks that sell your party their votes, it does not necessarily bode well for the working folks who are legal citizens. Reagan said amnesty for illegals was the on of the things he regretted sponsoring once he observed the effects....Mel Sounds like California should have done what Florida did... run weekly buses to Mexico, filling it with the people INS rounded up all week, and held in detention centers. You do this for a year, and even if they keep sneaking back, the disruption in schools, lives and bill paying would make anyone stop wanting to come back, it did for Florida. It hurt us to do this, but it may help California, given the scope of California's problem. Not to mention that with a 4.5% unemployment rate, after being shipped back once, they may realize that the Mexicans in Mexico have it way better than they had it here, and want to stay anyway, solving the problem for everyone. That's the State's choice, it has nothing to do with Federal. But considering what so many people have said about California, it makes no sense to me that they don't do what Florida did, at a much lower cost, since Mexico is closer, or another method that's worked for other states. Because ONE STATE is dumb in how it handles a problem doesn't mean 50 states need to be punished or be subject to more Federal interference about it. The Admin has nothing to DO with creating immigration laws, other than to tell Congress it's preference. Congress makes and breaks laws only. My understanding of the Amnesty is also for EUROPEAN nurses and professionals that snuck over here and cannot get citizenship either. A friend of mine is a hospital ER nurse, and she told me that the INS came and rounded up 2 of their nurses, one was from Norway, another was from Denmark, who were illegal. And deporting them and others put a strain on the hospital itself in patient care. In Florida, we have a bunch of UK people who are college students on student visas who would like to stay, and do not have that option at all. We have one of the top nursing programs in the nation, and that's who are denied the right to stay... nurses and medical technicians. For some strange reason, Americans do not like entering the medical profession as much as illegals do. A HUGE % of our medical training is for international students, who are denied the ability to stay because a path for citizenship for these trained medical people do not exist. THAT is a crisis. You see the MEXICAN problem because of where you live, but the immigration applies to every nation. Europe's economy is a mess, and there's a buttload who escaped over here and cannot stay also. One way or another, SOMETHING will happen with it soon, and THIS CONGRESS will decide it. Right now, it's in the House, with the Republicans, so whatever the outcome, it's in the hands of the Republicans ALREADY. Again, what's this got to do with the Admin?
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Post by helens on May 25, 2013 9:59:18 GMT -5
Keep something else in mind. The Mexicans here ILLEGALLY have been ILLEGAL for a long time. They clearly do not mind being here ILLEGALLY anyway. They probably wouldn't even notice if they had a pathway to legality... and even if they do, they're going to stay if they don't.
The people whom the immigration bill provides for include University students who are studying to be nurses, medical tech, doctors.
They have no pathway to citizenship, and they will NOT typically stay to practice when they graduate, illegally. They just don't have that criminal mentality.
THOSE are the people we want to provide the path for, Mexicans neither need nor care about a path, they will just go live in the slums of California as you say, and throw their trash everywhere for their perceived feelings of being unwanted. (*this is sarcasm, I have no idea if it's true).
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 10:20:46 GMT -5
Very good read Mel and Don. I find it pretty amazing that INS agents are working their asses of (at times very dangerous) to catch illegals and send them back across the border while other parts of the government are hindering their work. What in the hell is the reason for having an INS if they can not do their job. It is ridiculous and just another example of how our government has become a joke. There has to be greed involved in this somewhere. Greed from the people getting a government handout all the way to the top is sucking this country down the toilet. We do not have any representation so I think all of us regular citizens should band together and start hiring lobbyists. They seem to be the only ones that can change the government to their liking. Legal bribery. Even the illegal aliens have people fighting for them and what do we have? Anyone here have the ability to organize a few million people? All applications will be read and considered except for the people applying that are under the age of, maybe 55 or 60. That is negotiable. We have pretty much become a "self" nation (except for the people on RTH or course) and as I see it we have passed the point of no return. I should feel sorry for the children but a huge percentage of them have become so lazy that they are contributing to their own demise. Ok, I am done being negative now. On the positive side "I am still alive". Have a nice day all. Jim
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 14:21:51 GMT -5
We also have a situation in which pregnant Mexican women and their husbands will come across the border in San Ysidro/Tijuana (most likely other border towns) as a regular "visitor". But they are 40 weeks pregnant and give birth in a local emergency room. Once that baby is born it is a citizen. This is legally considered an anchor baby and the parents mat not be deported.
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Post by jakesrocks on May 25, 2013 14:45:18 GMT -5
Obama is supposedly winding down the war on terror. Many of our regular military will be given early discharges, because "they are no longer needed". Likewise our National Guard members are coming home to resume civilian life with no jobs to come home to. Why not put these active and guard members on our borders with the same policing powers as our border agents now have ? Why not arm them and order them to return fire if fired upon ? Our returning military will have meaningful employment. Since they are already trained for warfare, so training will not be needed. Unemployment rates among our returning military would be drastically reduced. And the drug and human smugglers would find a whole new line of defense standing in their way.
As for "anchor babies", why not give their illegal immigrant parents two options. Take their babies back across the border without American citizenship, or deport the parents without the babies, and place the babies up for adoption as U.S.citizen babies ? I suspect that suddenly it would make much more sense to these illegals using our laws as a path to staying here, to have their babies at home in their native countries.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on May 25, 2013 22:41:25 GMT -5
Helen, "Some" illegals have been here a long time, especially in Commiefornia. However significant numbers are coming in every day and many are as you've said OTM's, other than Mexican. There already is a pathway to citizenship and I've known many who've used it. I don't think criminal behavior should be rewarded, and I do think we should seal our borders tightly and filter immigrants like most other countries do so we can get the folks we need to improve our country. Farm labor should be managed with a guest worker program....Mel
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Post by helens on May 25, 2013 23:07:05 GMT -5
I think a guest worker program is the best idea. I have NO idea why anyone has a problem with it. They aren't citizens, but we recognize that there's a need for that category of worker, and employers will vouch for them. I can't fathom WHY the Republicans object to it... why ANYONE could object to it, because the alternative is to allow citizenship.
I see immigration from Florida's perspective... but I'm beginning to see why California sees it differently if true. If Mexicans came here and threw trash all over Florida, we'd want them gone too.
I see the immigration issue the same as I see the gun issue. You aren't taking guns away from criminals by taking guns away from the law-abiding. If you take away the right to citizenship for the law abiding, then all you have are the illegals who don't give a crap about the law. Since they don't care about the law, they'll keep coming no matter what laws we have.
In getting rid of the 'illegals' (read guns), you take away the legals (honest gun owners) who could benefit our society, like nurses, doctors, medical techs, scientists, computer geniuses. There IS a path to citizenship, but it's so long, expensive, tedious, that those professionals or graduates go home or stay home, because a bit less money is a whole lot less hassle.
We're a great nation because all the best and brightest were dying to come here since WWII... from physics scientist Einstein and rocket scientists Werner Van Braun and Qian Xuesen to Olympic gold medalists like Nadia Comenechi to superstars like Mikael Baryshnikov and Nureyev, the list goes on and on. Aside from the fact that no one famous wants to come here anymore, and even Mexicans have a lower unemployment rate by almost half now, what's our immigration policy doing for us? Are we stopping Mexicans even? No.
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Post by jakesrocks on May 25, 2013 23:08:50 GMT -5
Mel, the only way that guest worker program will really work is if the feds make the farm owners responsible for making sure their guest workers actually return to their home country when the job ends. If they don't, and one of their guest workers gets caught overstaying their welcome, fine the crap out of the responsible farm owner.
A new beef slaughter and packing plant was just built here in Aberdeen. Since a lot of the machinery was built in Korea, they brought in Korean guest workers to install the machines. Guess what Aberdeen now has ? Yep, that's right. A small Korean community with expired guest worker permits. The feds aren't doing a damned thing about it.
On top of that, when they were seeking permits to build the plant, it was promised that Native Americans would be bussed in from our reservations to be trained and work in the plant. Guess who's really working in the plant ? That's right. Guest workers from Mexico.
And for those who would accuse me of telling lies, Google Northern Beef Packers, Aberdeen, S.D. and do a little research.
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Post by helens on May 25, 2013 23:13:40 GMT -5
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on May 25, 2013 23:33:28 GMT -5
I think the Republicans are leery of a guest worker program because they figure the Democrats want them to stay and vote so will refuse to police the program correctly. so we'd just wind up with a bunch of extra illegals. We have that same program with guest visas, student visas etc. No one tracks the guest so they just stay as illegals. Like I said we need to secure our borders and part of that is tracking folks who are not supposed to overstay their welcome....Mel
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Post by jakesrocks on May 25, 2013 23:41:55 GMT -5
They're just like the Obama administration. They lied. They've made no attempt to reach out to our Native Americans who desperately need work.
Florida sucks up a hell of a lot more Federal money than S.D. does. They can better afford to round them up and ship them home. And If you'll bother reading, I was talking about Korean guest workers. Buss them all the way to the west coast and pay to fly them home ? I don't think so. It's a fed problem, which the fed refuses to fix.
So maybe Florida would like to bring buses up to S.D. and pick them up, and drive them back to Korea ?
S.D. doesn't have the budget to put half a dozen cops on every street corner, like Florida does. We're mostly Republicans up here. The Obama feds give us very damned little for law enforcement.
We have 42 police officers to handle over 26,000 people in the city limits. Of those 42, several have desk jobs. The rest are split into 3 overlapping shifts. So we probably have 13 to 15 cops covering the whole city at any given time. We have 13 Sheriffs, 3 of which are full time jailers. The other 10 have 1,713 Sq. Miles of county to patrol, when they're not providing court security. How many cops and Sheriffs do you have ?
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