jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jul 10, 2013 19:04:16 GMT -5
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always
temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent
form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous
gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority
always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from
the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally
collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a
dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200
years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:
Born 1776, Died 2012
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in
St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning
the last Presidential election:
Number of States won by: Obama: 19 Romney: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 Romney: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million Romney: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Obama: 13.2 Romney: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory
Romney won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.
Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low
income tenements and living off various forms of government
welfare..."
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population
already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase..
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Jul 10, 2013 19:11:41 GMT -5
James, that is great you know about this. I made a video earlier this spring that references same.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jul 10, 2013 19:30:11 GMT -5
Interesting. I saw a writeup the other day that now the number of folks getting various food assistance programs from the government has now exceeded the number of folks working and paying taxes for said services by about 10 million. Something like 101 million getting services and 93 million paying for it. Sounds like we might be reaching the tipping point soon.....Mel
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jul 10, 2013 19:50:38 GMT -5
This is a great study. And it is repetitive. I see it caught your interest Bill. When I get back I will be watching your video. Kinda camping out here on my trip. Hope all is well.
I have wondered what our ratios are in this country Mel.
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Jul 10, 2013 20:17:30 GMT -5
Mel, that is shocking, I had no idea we were there yet. One thing for sure, if immigration reform includes amnesty for the between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants living in the United States, we will surly fall as the majority of them will vote for largess.
James, like you I am busy as a squirrel in summer. Been getting the has to do's done so I can go hunt some Madison Blue. Rivers here still too high to hound. Glad to hear you are still camping!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 20:56:50 GMT -5
Please excuse me. I need to go have a good cry.
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Post by parfive on Jul 10, 2013 22:05:06 GMT -5
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Post by parfive on Jul 10, 2013 22:26:28 GMT -5
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Jul 11, 2013 7:27:05 GMT -5
Rich...dont confuse these guys with facts
charlie
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 11, 2013 9:47:48 GMT -5
Mel, that is shocking, I had no idea we were there yet. One thing for sure, if immigration reform includes amnesty for the between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants living in the United States, we will surly fall as the majority of them will vote for largess. James, like you I am busy as a squirrel in summer. Been getting the has to do's done so I can go hunt some Madison Blue. Rivers here still too high to hound. Glad to hear you are still camping! I can think of something that would take care of that - If a person is on government assistance, for, let's say, more than six months, or even a year (just to weed out those that temporarily need it, as opposed to a way of life), that person is ineligible to vote. Simple as that. But first, you'd have to get elected officials on board with that (not gonna happen). Why would they want to disallow their constituents from voting for them? And second, if by some miracle a statute of this nature could be brought to bear, how would they implement it? I mean, there's already so much voter fraud going on now that they don't have a handle on. The amount of money the Obama administration wastes is beyond comprehension. I know that this misuse of public funds has been going on since he first took office, but it really just yanks my chain! I got an email yesterday pointing out how much money the Obama's jaunts in Air Force One have cost us all (well, the 93 million): Time to Sequester Air Force One , YouTube video dated April 5, 2013. Air Force One costs taxpayers $179,750 per hour. It's time to sequester President Obama's use of Air Force One and limit it to official business rather than vacations and sight-seeing tours. Then I went looking for more info, the waste is incredible! - The numerous trips to Hawaii, his supposed place of birth
- June 2013 - "President Obama's 8-Day Africa Trip Will Cost Taxpayers up to $100 Million"
- May 2012 - Spring Break in Oaxaca, Mexico for first daughter (with 25 Secret Service agents) Cost??
- August 2010 - Michelle Obama's Spanish vacation (reported cost taxpayers nearly $470,000)
- June 2009 - Michelle and daughters Europen vacation. Cost?? "White House Won't Reveal How Much Michele Obama's Europen Vacation Cost Taxpayers"
This is just the tip of the iceberg! Do you see a pattern of abuse here? I think I'll join Scott and have a good cry. Or maybe even be sick... Jean
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 11:24:14 GMT -5
Yea, it is sad how much money is wasted by government. What I would like to see is Bush paying back the three trillion and counting for Iraq. I am not a good researcher so I would like to see how much is still being spent in Iraq. I will bet it is mind boggling. Jim
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Jul 11, 2013 13:35:47 GMT -5
Jim, you are correct, but it does seem that you are thinking we already spent 3 Trillion, thought you might like clarification. Actually, the total US federal spending associated with the Iraq war has been $1.7 trillion through FY2013.otal cost of the Iraq war through fiscal year 2013 is 1.7 Trillion. An additional $490 billion in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades counting interest. www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-iraq-war-anniversary-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314(Reuters had the most liberal assessment, Costs of war has a bit less in their guess) The US federal price tag for the Iraq war — including an estimate for veterans' medical and disability costs into the future — is about $2.2 trillion dollars. The cost for both Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan is going to be close to $4 trillion, not including future interest costs on borrowing for the wars. costsofwar.org/I would add that the true cost of war can't be measured in money.
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QuailRiver
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 11, 2013 13:47:12 GMT -5
Jean Wrote: "I can think of something that would take care of that - If a person is on government assistance, for, let's say, more than six months, or even a year (just to weed out those that temporarily need it, as opposed to a way of life), that person is ineligible to vote. Simple as that." Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/60884/rise-fall-democracy#ixzz2YlQiQO2LI've been a long time proponent of "No Representation Without Taxation". People who do not, nor ever have respectably contributed tax dollars into the system should not have any say-so as to how other's tax dollars are spent!
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 11, 2013 13:53:32 GMT -5
Very well said! Jean
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 16:58:58 GMT -5
Ok, I am not hoorahing for Obama's junkets but how many junkets would it take to equal one (1) trillion dollars.
Another point: Every time I ask why nobody complains about the cost of the Iraq war which was jumped into by a republican president, that thread just dies. lol I will bet that I have had the last say on threads more than anyone else on here. Maybe I am one of those a holes that always has to have the last word or maybe people do not like to respond when it is a touchy subject that republicans shy away from. Bill, you are the first one that has said anything about the Iraq war after I mentioned the three trillion dollars. Sometimes it is ignored and passed over like it never happened. And the fact that it ended up with a lot of lives lost makes it unconscionable (morally unacceptable)(and any other synonyms). Jim
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Jul 11, 2013 17:44:58 GMT -5
Jim, as I have mentioned before, I was all for both wars. I know that many like to believe that Bush bears the sole blame for the Iraq war, and prefer to forget that it was not just our intel that indicated there was WMDs there, and that Bush had the same info as did our allies intel, and both sides of congress which agreed to take Saddam out. But, that is part of being president, he had to take all the blame. Funny though, how now when something goes awry, Obama has nothing to do with it.
For me, I once thought we should act as the world's big dog who would come to defend those whose leaders commit atrocities on their own people. That was enough for me to support taking Saddam out. I no longer feel that way, I now would only support a war in which we were at direct threat. Screw the worries about keeping oil flowing, we would use our own if we had to. No need to bother with trying to bring freedom and democracy to oppressed people, that country that helped to save Europe is only a memory now. We now call it 'nation building' , a bad word. I still feel bad for the people that suffer, but if we try to help it all gets twisted into us being the bad guy so there is little choice but to turn a blind eye.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 9:54:58 GMT -5
I too have changed my mind RE: wars.
Glad you could put this into words Bill. Thanks.
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Post by helens on Jul 12, 2013 17:58:23 GMT -5
Dang... we're getting somewhere... I'm all for no wars except defense too. I don't agree to disarm so we are incapable of self-defense however.
As for taking Saddam out, Saddam was Ronald Reagan's ally, and the weapons Bush fought in that war were the weapons Ronald Reagan gave Saddam to fight Iran for 7 years with. Why did we go to war? What did Iraq have to do with 9/11? Absolutely not one thing. Oil? We burned their oilfields ourselves. So why? WHY? WMD? Everyone has WMD, starting with the US and Isreal. But I wouldn't vote for Bush the 2nd time because he LIED about the WMD. BOTH the CIA AND the UN Nuclear Inspectors issued reports that Iraq had NO WMD. So WHY? Only Bush knows, but I do suspect those trillions of dollars he thought he was giving his contractor buddies had something to do with it.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jul 12, 2013 19:19:55 GMT -5
I too agree on the war thing but I ain't flying my flag anymore till we get a legally elected president who obeys the constitution again, and America is free of the jackass who would be king.....Mel
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jul 12, 2013 20:14:42 GMT -5
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