The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Mar 7, 2014 15:08:30 GMT -5
hmm, my 18 inch Lortone only uses 3 1/2 gallons to cover the blade 1/2 inch... either you have, 1) A huge sump area (large and deep), which is probably the case 2) A blade smaller than what should be in there, If there is more than 4 inches between the top & bottom of the blade, get a bigger blade and really cut some Biguns'!! LOL 3) Too much oil. (Not that I am saying that you would knowingly put in too much oil, I have heard others say they use that much oil but on large bladed saws.) In my opinion if you need that much oil to run the 14 inch saw, it's time to start adding bricks to the saw box. But that is just my opinion, for what its worth. I just don't understand the need for 5 gallons of oil on a 14 inch saw, but that's just me I guess. I own two 14 INCH Highland Park saws and they both take five gallons to get 1/2 inch of oil up on the blade. In one way it is nice because it takes me a couple of years before I have to muck it out. Don Well, there is that... but if it becomes a question of $$ vs using oil that resembles tapioca, then I would rather add a couple solid bricks and use 4 gallons of clean oil and save the extra $$ for when times are better!! But I do see where you are coming from too so for a years worth of cutting between cleanings, it could be worth it, depends also on how often you are cutting.... me I can be cabbing and running my 18 non-stop for weeks at a time, but then I'll expect to muck out Tapioca by the 3rd month.
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Mar 7, 2014 19:39:29 GMT -5
If you are out to educate this hobby or the world that is fine but please do not do on my back. Don
Try looking at it from the perspective of a nooby reading the posts. ANY poste NOT pm'd are public any tips like this will help them. Hell, I didn't know about the zinc in at fluid.
Lee #1
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rocpup
spending too much on rocks
Pink Limb Iris
Member since March 2011
Posts: 465
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Post by rocpup on Mar 12, 2014 7:39:17 GMT -5
Although this is not my thread I did make a commit here and I feel I lost unfairly some of my creditability and it needs some clarification on my part. I have been using a Shell product Pella A in my rocksaws for years. It is a oil that is mostly designed for rock saws. The price for it has climbed up past my ability to pay. The last five gallon pail including was $84 at the local Yuma AZ shell vender. At that time I noted that it would be the last Pella A to be used in one of my saws. I did a little research here and found an alternative oil people here were thinking of using and it was hydraulic oil. The Pella needed to be replaced so I found a five gallon pail for $55 a much cheaper replacement. The hydraulic oil for me did not work well. The solids remained suspended and became very thick and had to be disposed of. With a little more research I found others were considering used ATF. I have been around and have rebuilt automatic transmission several times over the years. The smell of the burnt ATF was annoying to me but required another look for the rock saw. I did a search and found no unsafe warnings using it in this application. I went to a local transmission shop and they gave me a five gallon pail free and the smell was not to bad. It has been working quite well in my saw and because of the solids settling out it appears that I may be able to use it another six month season here in Yuma AZ. Now for my creditability issue. I was accused of promoting unsafe practices to newbees and was shortening my life span by ingesting or breathing in ZINC laden mists from the ATF. First of all in my sixty years of being in this hobby I have never advocated any unsafe practice to any and all persons newbees or not. I felt bad about the accusation and I needed to do something about it. I must do a little more research. I Googled a few searches and found from MSD sheets NO immediate adverse health affects for ATF and there was only one, of the several that I read, mentioned any ZINC being present at all and only then at 210 parts per million. I went on to Google White Mineral oil, Pella A and the same health and safety hazards are mentioned for all oils. And in fact the MSD sheets for ATF says it is a mineral oil. Zinc as it turns out is a necessary requirement for the human body. If you look on the shelves of vitamins in drug stores you will see what I say. As it also turns out it is possible to get Zinc poisoning. The toxicity level can be as low as 525 mg ingested. The unsafe practice that I was to be promoting was the Zinc laden mist coming from the rock saw. Hmmm. 210 parts per million seems to me a very tiny amount and the toxicity level of 525 mg is possible poisoning? This is all coming from a rock saw that is in an open area and I absolutely can not see any mists coming from it. It has been to long out of school for me to do the math but breathing in or ingesting 525 mg of ZINC from ATF that contains 210 parts per million seems infinite. If I am wrong a will apologize, if proven wrong with proof not with unsupported, no it all, words. Now this is what I do know for sure anytime a rock is subjected to any and all cutting or grinding process dust or mist is created from the material being removed from the rock. This residue contains every element and compound know to man, if ingested or breathed it is going to be hazardous to your health. You must consider the process and protect your self.
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,627
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Post by Mark K on Mar 12, 2014 16:45:10 GMT -5
I see your point, the danger may be lower than is possibly suspected, and your research does show that you care. There are other things in ATF also that I would suspect that are much more dangerous to ingest. Rockoonz only wanted to point out a possible complication of the use of it as others have pointed out for other substances in the past. You did kind of attack him in response to his post. Had you not attacked him with your judge comment, this post would not have went where it did.
Now, as far as I am concerned, it is over and in a few days, I myself will probably never remember who said what.
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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 12, 2014 23:04:48 GMT -5
So rocpup now the increasingly nasty PM's will cease?
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vugs
starting to spend too much on rocks
Rockbiter
Member since February 2014
Posts: 225
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Post by vugs on Mar 12, 2014 23:22:21 GMT -5
look, as the person who started this thread i would prefer that you guys handle the arguement via pm's and not in this thread which was originally only supposed to be about tile saws and not oil cooled slab saws in the first place. its gone on long enough and i dont see anyone really wanting to participate in this thread anymore anyways thanks to the mess. you guys would probably get along great face to face so why argue like this on the internet?
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Mar 13, 2014 10:08:26 GMT -5
Good grief, what a black eye this thread has become for our forum. Let's pull up our britches boys and quit pissing on each other. I use the workforce tile saw from home depot. The 7" blade it comes with is rather thick, but for trimming out preforms, it does fine. I replaced the blade with a thinner 6" blade from ebay. you don't get as much cutting depth but again, I'm trimming out preforms from slabs here, not slabbing rocks. I also own the Hi-Tec Diamond trim saw with variable speed control and 4" blade. It's a very fine saw for making delicate and thin cuts of precious material like opals, but it runs $400. The home depot saw is fine for trimming up agate cabochons. www.hitechdiamond.com/4-5-_Trim_Saw_Machine.htmlI run water in both saws and clean out the reservoir when finished cutting so the blade doesn't rust out.
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vugs
starting to spend too much on rocks
Rockbiter
Member since February 2014
Posts: 225
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Post by vugs on Mar 13, 2014 11:22:47 GMT -5
hey thanks Don.
even if a tile saw has been upgraded with a thinner lapidary blade, are they still not a good choice as a lapidary saw due to the much higher rpm that the blade spins at?
what are the reasons they (tile saws) are looked down on? is it just the fact that they are not a lapidary name brand or is it due to the higher rpm not being gentle enough.
i bring this up because i have cut and broken fractured rocks on a tile saw. would the trim saws be gentle enough not to break a fractured agate or will they break regardless?
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Mar 13, 2014 11:49:03 GMT -5
I don't think that the tile saws are looked down on really, a lot of us use them for every day trimming needs. They do have some drawbacks depending on the material you are working with however. I have found that the tile cutting blade these saws use have an undesirably large kref loss when cutting expensive materials, tend to chip the edges of agates and jaspers and the very thin lapidary blades don't fit well on the arbor unless shims are used so that the washers can get a good grip on it. The lapidary trim saws like the Hi-tech diamond saw gives much smoother cuts and the blades have a much smaller kref loss, desirable for cutting precious material.
If the material has fractures, it will almost certainly break along that fracture with the tile saw. You're chances are better with a lapidary trim saw/blade but there's still a chance of breaking. I avoid fractures as much as possible when laying out my cabochons.
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Post by parfive on Mar 13, 2014 12:23:44 GMT -5
Feature or bug?
Fracture breaks on the tile saw or six wheels into a cab?
Any slab I’m looking to cab gets smacked on the bench before layout.
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vugs
starting to spend too much on rocks
Rockbiter
Member since February 2014
Posts: 225
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Post by vugs on Mar 13, 2014 13:36:49 GMT -5
for the record im not solely trimming up cabs. im also splitting small nodules and geodes. im into banded agates so im often just splitting a bunch of nodules to find the nice ones to polish and display.
the more i research lapidary saws i would like one. specifically the 10" Polaris trim saw. but at the same time, my cheap side likes to think that the Harbor Freight 10" wet tile saw with a thin lapidary blade and a vise wouldn't be too bad either for a fraction of the price and seems to be very similar to the Barranca BD-2014.
the more i get into the hobby the more i would like my own workshop. right now i am using a friends workshop which is based around an MK-101 saw and an 18" Denver Glass flat lap and i would like a similar setup.
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Mar 13, 2014 14:58:52 GMT -5
if you want to cut small nodules definitely go with the 10" size. I use my old 10" star-diamond saw endlessly for cutting small rough. need a vise and hood though for slabbing unless you want to hand hold rough and don't mind getting coated with coolant. I use mineral oil in my 10" although lots of people use water and an anti-rusting additive.
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vugs
starting to spend too much on rocks
Rockbiter
Member since February 2014
Posts: 225
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Post by vugs on Mar 13, 2014 15:53:15 GMT -5
i plan to use water and gemlube as coolant/rust prevention. i'd rather not deal with the sludge and harmful mist.
all this equipment talk is only adding fuel to the fire and making me "need" a 10" saw now!
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rocpup
spending too much on rocks
Pink Limb Iris
Member since March 2011
Posts: 465
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Post by rocpup on Mar 13, 2014 16:23:35 GMT -5
Good grief, what a black eye this thread has become for our forum. Let's pull up our britches boys and quit pissing on each other. I use the workforce tile saw from home depot. The 7" blade it comes with is rather thick, but for trimming out preforms, it does fine. I replaced the blade with a thinner 6" blade from ebay. you don't get as much cutting depth but again, I'm trimming out preforms from slabs here, not slabbing rocks. I also own the Hi-Tec Diamond trim saw with variable speed control and 4" blade. It's a very fine saw for making delicate and thin cuts of precious material like opals, but it runs $400. The home depot saw is fine for trimming up agate cabochons. www.hitechdiamond.com/4-5-_Trim_Saw_Machine.htmlI run water in both saws and clean out the reservoir when finished cutting so the blade doesn't rust out. Over the years I have lost a couple of blades because I forgot to drain the sump in my 10" trim saw. To solve the problem I put a hose on the drain into a plastic bucket. I then found a small fountain pump and connected a hose to the splash guard. I then wired it to the same switch as the saw. Now if I use it after a month or so I don't have a rusted out blade.
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