jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 15, 2014 9:13:57 GMT -5
The Reticulted python is a joke compared to this man eater. Of the same danger level threat as apes and tigers, the Nile is nothing to triffle with. Smaller Caymens and native Florida crocs are not such a threat. And are fairly common. The smaller Caymen also introduced, seems content there. A Nile croc is 3 times heavier than a gator of same length and has a palate for human flesh. An efficient killing machine. And international law prevents killing them(legally) due to endangered status. www.miamiherald.com/2014/03/12/3991064/two-year-search-for-deadly-nile.html
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Mar 15, 2014 10:05:49 GMT -5
That is scary. The idea of something in the water that wants to eat you could really cast a pall on the outing. . .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 13:55:48 GMT -5
There is no international law that I am bound by that prohibits the killing of Nile crocs. It is American law is what prohibits their killing in America. The same law the prohibits power transmission company from killing eagles but allows wind turbine companies a certain 'take'. The seriously problematic Endangered Species Act (ESA).
Actually the quote Jim referred to is
THAT statement is accurate.
All the stuff about humans being prey is poorly worded but reasonably accurate. Notice how hard it was to catch this specimen? Fortunately most niles will avoid human contact, only the VERY large ones thinks humans are prey and only when VERY hungry. A situation not likely in the highly productive environment of the Everglades. If they were all man eaters then capturing the animal should have been easy!
Aside from questioning the wisdom of keeping nile crocs within the USA in any setting (and I do), I will blame the ESA itself for these animals being found in the glades. The ESA prohibits commercial sale of endangered species across state lines without special permits being obtained by both parties. This limits the market to the state the breeder is in. So all the cool crocs are being kept in Florida cuz the great weather. Last summer a female nile gives her owner 45 babies and the market value goes to near zero because everyone in Florida that wants one has one from previous years. What to do with all these babies?
One could not keep them at all (my choice!) Not let them breed in the first place - yeah right - tell that to the testosterone laden macho man who has them. One could kill the eggs (good choice never used, perhaps illegal) Keep them and feed them lots of muskrats but where to house scores of niles? Let 'em go! simple and efficient.
The ESA listing of 'endangered' is pure hogwash. The IUCN says this
Clearly this species needs zero protection from the US government that is using a law that's stated intent is to preserve habitat. How will the USA preserve habitat on another continent, on that has 41 countries with Nile croc populations? Hogwash.
All that said - Nile Crocs in the everglades = very bad idea.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 15, 2014 22:22:00 GMT -5
Looking forward to a prosecution. I hope the guy spends a long time in jail if he is responsible.
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junglejim
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Post by junglejim on Mar 15, 2014 23:04:56 GMT -5
What else is down there that we don't know about yet ? Perhaps a cobra or mamba that escaped or was released by someone who got more than they could handle. I like reptiles, have my leopard geckos for 18 years now but really dangerous one's belong in zoos. I agree that the Nile crocs don't need to be protected here, there's plenty where they belong.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 16, 2014 11:24:18 GMT -5
What else is down there that we don't know about yet ? Perhaps a cobra or mamba that escaped or was released by someone who got more than they could handle. I like reptiles, have my leopard geckos for 18 years now but really dangerous one's belong in zoos. I agree that the Nile crocs don't need to be protected here, there's plenty where they belong. They are paying a price for these exotic animals. The reticulated Python, Iguanas and others are very prolific there. Not a great threat to humans but reap havoc in many ways. That area is so hard to travel thru due to shrubs, access is a big problem. And it is a huge area. They catch Oscars, Peacock Bass and an occasional S. American Piranha on hook and line. No telling what is cruising around in those back waters. In Miami Parakeets and other exotic birds land at your feeder. The Australian Pine was planted in the Everglades in an attempt to dry them out back in the day. They have spent a lot getting rid of it. It seeds everywhere and is about fire resistant. All quite interesting Jim. As mentioned, the Nile is very elusive. If they caught 3, I got news about the number of unfound ones. I bet the DNA is not a match to the the importer under scrutiny. I hope they can't find each other. I wonder what mechanism they have to call each other. When a male gator vibrates in the water to attract a female it carries a good ways. These guys can feel it thru their feet on land. LOL
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junglejim
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Post by junglejim on Mar 16, 2014 11:51:01 GMT -5
Is it possible for the American crocodile and Nile crocodile to hybridize? Not sure how close the DNA is between the two. I'm a fisherman and the importation of the Asian Carp, it's subsequent escape and ability to reproduce in great volumes is wrecking fishing at some of my favorite holes. There are places where it's impossible not to snag one because there are so many. Almost everywhere along the Mississippi and it's tributaries has a population now. Who's brilliant idea to bring those here was that ??
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 16, 2014 15:10:53 GMT -5
Is it possible for the American crocodile and Nile crocodile to hybridize? Not sure how close the DNA is between the two. I'm a fisherman and the importation of the Asian Carp, it's subsequent escape and ability to reproduce in great volumes is wrecking fishing at some of my favorite holes. There are places where it's impossible not to snag one because there are so many. Almost everywhere along the Mississippi and it's tributaries has a population now. Who's brilliant idea to bring those here was that ?? That would be a bad scenario Jim. South Florida has always had native crocs. A smaller type. It never has crossed with the alligator. I am about certain the Nile can not cross. But see your point related to the Asian carp. I think there would already be a serious issue if the Nile crosses w/a gator. Gators are not so widespread internationally like crocs. I do wonder if an alligator is a food source for a Nile. Alligators are a food source for Reticulated Pythons...I don't think an alligator has any fear of the Reticulated Python. I think young gators do not take them seriously till it is too late.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 16, 2014 15:29:02 GMT -5
From Wiki
Crocodile attacks on people are common in places where crocodiles are native. The Saltwater and Nile Crocodiles are responsible for more attacks and more deaths than any other wild predator that attacks humans for food. Each year, hundreds of deadly attacks are attributed to the Nile Crocodile within sub-Saharan Africa. The fact that there are many relatively healthy populations of Nile Crocodiles in East Africa and their proximity to people living in poverty and/or without infrastructure has made it likely that the Nile Crocodile is responsible for more attacks on humans than all other species combined.
Sounds like a bad critter. Looks like gator hunters will have the tide turned and become the hunted if this guy gets loose. They are strangely cannibalistic making me think gators would be fair game.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Mar 16, 2014 16:14:05 GMT -5
Not something I would care to run into, thanks all the same. Perhaps that's why people in FL think you are crazy, going into the leech, alligator, and now crocodile infested waters in search of coral? Idiot stick, huh? Yeah, it fits, lol!
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bhiatt
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Post by bhiatt on Mar 16, 2014 16:43:49 GMT -5
What else is down there that we don't know about yet ? Perhaps a cobra or mamba that escaped or was released by someone who got more than they could handle. I like reptiles, have my leopard geckos for 18 years now but really dangerous one's belong in zoos. I agree that the Nile crocs don't need to be protected here, there's plenty where they belong. them leopard geckos are cool looking. Had one from hatchling. Also found one at a rental property I was cleaning up. Someone left it in the tank and we figured that it hadn't eaten in over a month. Thing was super skinny. Cant believe it was still alive. Ended up giving it to someone.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 16, 2014 18:14:37 GMT -5
Not something I would care to run into, thanks all the same. Perhaps that's why people in FL think you are crazy, going into the leech, alligator, and now crocodile infested waters in search of coral? Idiot stick, huh? Yeah, it fits, lol! Sometimes the prey can be very deceptive Jean
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 22:04:43 GMT -5
No reason to think that american and nile crocs could not hybridize. Then we could lose the american croc thru "genetic swamping"The pythons in the glades are Burmese pythons. Retics do not seem to thrive in Florida. Just clearing this up before some news agency takes the wrong ball and runs with it. There are localized breeding populations of boa constrictors and nile monitors for sure. I have heard of tegus (big south american carnivore lizards) and rumors of cobras. Mambas are rarely kept and when do rarely live and breeding is exceedingly rare. Likely no mambas loose in Florida.
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junglejim
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Post by junglejim on Mar 16, 2014 22:37:27 GMT -5
Sounds like genetic swamping would be a bigger concern. First generation hybrids tend to grow fast. The tegus got some nasty teeth, easily take a finger or two off. Sounds like Florida is a zoo, just that everything is running wild.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 23:50:57 GMT -5
Sounds like genetic swamping would be a bigger concern. First generation hybrids tend to grow fast. The tegus got some nasty teeth, easily take a finger or two off. Sounds like Florida is a zoo, just that everything is running wild. Actually while a large tegu's bite is destructive and potentially dangerous it is not likely they have enough power to amputate digits. Your assessment of hybridization is spot on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 23:56:16 GMT -5
From Wiki Crocodile attacks on people are common in places where crocodiles are native. The Saltwater and Nile Crocodiles are responsible for more attacks and more deaths than any other wild predator that attacks humans for food. Each year, hundreds of deadly attacks are attributed to the Nile Crocodile within sub-Saharan Africa. The fact that there are many relatively healthy populations of Nile Crocodiles in East Africa and their proximity to people living in poverty and/or without infrastructure has made it likely that the Nile Crocodile is responsible for more attacks on humans than all other species combined. Sounds like a bad critter. Looks like gator hunters will have the tide turned and become the hunted if this guy gets loose. They are strangely cannibalistic making me think gators would be fair game. Wiki says so it must be true. Common sense lost to the internet. An 8' Nile will run and hide. A 14' will hit the chain link at full sprint. Been there got the tshirt at Miami zoo. 14' is top dog and only a small part of the population.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 17, 2014 0:42:49 GMT -5
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Post by Toad on Mar 17, 2014 5:00:24 GMT -5
Invasive species (flora and fauna) have always been fascinating to me. I hate the destruction they cause, but am always interested to see what form the chaos takes.
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junglejim
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Post by junglejim on Mar 17, 2014 10:08:15 GMT -5
That's what I get for believing the " EXPERTS" on one of those nature channels about a tegu bite Shotgunner. Of course they exaggerate and over dramatize a bit. It helps the ratings. There are folks like me out there that believe what they hear. Thanks for sharing your knowledge of reptiles. Glad that I'm still capable of learning something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2014 14:03:34 GMT -5
In 1995'ish I went to the International Herpetological Symposium in Miami Florida. As a part of that trip we got a "behind the scenes" tour of the reptile section. At that time the entire reptile section was composed of anything you can find wild in the park and four species of crocodilian. The two important ones were the False Ghavial Tomistoma and the Cuban Croc. They had a very large male cuban and we were told to stay behind the rope as he will attack if you get closer. A couple guys (me too) crawled in close on hands and knees hoping to get a good picture. That sumnabatchin' beast took off like a sprinter at full sprint, we jumped up and turned to run, looking over my shoulder as that 1200# dragon hit the 12' chainlink fence at full speed, the fenced bowed outwards under his weight, we kept running, and as he slid off the fence he returned to his pond as we checked our shorts for internal emissions. False Ghavial (their's was like 12 feet or so)
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