jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Aug 31, 2014 12:11:34 GMT -5
BTW, my guess is the gold sheen is from rutile needles that formed in layers in the obsidian. I've never had it checked so I may be wrong. Was it collected close by Utah Dave ? |
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Post by 1dave on Aug 31, 2014 13:43:47 GMT -5
BTW, my guess is the gold sheen is from rutile needles that formed in layers in the obsidian. I've never had it checked so I may be wrong. Was it collected close by Utah Dave ? In Millard county, near Black Rock, about five miles east of the main road (Utah 257) between Milford and Delta Utah on the dirt road that scatters and winds across to Kanosh (way over on the west side of I-15). That site is only about an acre in size, but there is a LOT of other obsidian all over the place. I would guess about 70 miles north of my home. Give me your email address if you would like an exact location. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Aug 31, 2014 14:31:36 GMT -5
Was it collected close by Utah Dave ? In Millard county, near Black Rock, about five miles east of the main road (Utah 257) between Milford and Delta Utah on the dirt road that scatters and winds across to Kanosh (way over on the west side of I-15). That site is only about an acre in size, but there is a LOT of other obsidian all over the place. I would guess about 70 miles north of my home. Give me your email address if you would like an exact location. [/quote Was it collected close by Utah Dave ? In Millard county, near Black Rock, about five miles east of the main road (Utah 257) between Milford and Delta Utah on the dirt road that scatters and winds across to Kanosh (way over on the west side of I-15). That site is only about an acre in size, but there is a LOT of other obsidian all over the place. I would guess about 70 miles north of my home. Give me your email address if you would like an exact location. Just an acre ? Tiny spot for Utah vastness. Best not email location, i might end up on your door step. And you would have to run me off. oh yea, the hammer photo, I would not want to anger Dave. Still laughing at that image. We have a saying down here "A bad day at Black Rock". Familiar ? Were you at Black Rock w/that dang hammer Dave ?? |
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Post by Toad on Aug 31, 2014 14:41:49 GMT -5
I wasn't commenting on the filler, but rather that you were going back to rough grind again for another week - and at 30/60 rather than 60/90. Thought that might be too coarse considering that the stones are almost there. But again, I'm talking from inexperience... The 30/60 grit was really broken down after 7 days. SiC fractures during the tumbling process, reducing it to a finer grit. So the 30/60 was probably 150 grit after 7 days. For example, the grit salesman gave me some SiC 8 grit, it was BB sized. After a week all the BB's were gone, and crushed. SiC breaks sharp and cuts with the new sharp edges. But does get smaller. If I open the tumbler barrel and see 30 grits in the slurry I rerun it till the grit is crushed to paste. AO does not shatter into sharp pieces like SiC so much. It just gets rounder and duller till it stops cutting. I understand how the SiC works - that's all I use up until polish. Just thought you might be able to advance to 60/90 or 120 to get rid of the last divots. Just speculating... Will be interested to see how they come out at the end of this cycle. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Aug 31, 2014 14:47:48 GMT -5
The 30/60 grit was really broken down after 7 days. SiC fractures during the tumbling process, reducing it to a finer grit. So the 30/60 was probably 150 grit after 7 days. For example, the grit salesman gave me some SiC 8 grit, it was BB sized. After a week all the BB's were gone, and crushed. SiC breaks sharp and cuts with the new sharp edges. But does get smaller. If I open the tumbler barrel and see 30 grits in the slurry I rerun it till the grit is crushed to paste. AO does not shatter into sharp pieces like SiC so much. It just gets rounder and duller till it stops cutting. I understand how the SiC works - that's all I use up until polish. Just thought you might be able to advance to 60/90 or 120 to get rid of the last divots. Just speculating... Will be interested to see how they come out at the end of this cycle. I hear you Toad. by the time 7 days is up that 30/60 is really worn down. Probably finer than 120. more like 220 or 300. Maybe even smaller. i am curious too.You may be totally correct. this new to me. This photo makes me comfortable Toad. I am certain that 220 will smooth this surface that is from 7 days of 30/60. I did my best to take a photo that shows the surface roughness.  |
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Post by 1dave on Sept 1, 2014 11:11:44 GMT -5
Just an acre ? Tiny spot for Utah vastness. Best not email location, i might end up on your door step. And you would have to run me off. oh yea, the hammer photo, I would not want to anger Dave. Still laughing at that image. We have a saying down here "A bad day at Black Rock". Familiar ? Were you at Black Rock w/that dang hammer Dave ?? I would be proud to have you on my doorstep anytime! You are welcome to camp out back for as long as you like. Black Rock is an empty desert space south of Delta. There is a Blackrock town in California near the Nevada border, but the movie " Bad Day at Blackrock" staring Spencer Tracy was filmed at Lone Pine.  |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 1, 2014 11:48:29 GMT -5
Ok. A movie title. That says it all. Dave, I have to tell you I learned a lesson at Lone Pines. Buddy and I flew out to Las Vegas and rented a car to go explore Death Valley and hike a bit on the base of Whitney. We stopped at DV and went on to stay at Lone Pines several nights. Drove car to highest point on Whitney and found it cool but t-shirt weather. Put on light overcoat for some reason. We started hiking hard and fast and may have picked up several 1000 feet in altitude. The trail spiraled to a face of the mountain facing a different direction. As soon as we turned that corner deep snow and fast wind was nailing us. We were shocked at the change. Never experienced such a fast climate change. We were cold to the bone in minutes and gained great respect. Dumb southerners gone west I suppose. Thanks for the invite. I could sleep under the bamboo  |
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Post by connrock on Sept 1, 2014 13:46:11 GMT -5
James I did a "pictorial" a few years ago on Apache Tears.Come to find out the rough Apache Tears were loaded throughout with very tiny,tiny gas pockets that caused the polished surface to look pitted.I noticed this several stages before polish and wold have just dumped them out if I wasn't trying to help others with problems they were having at the time.I had to finish going through the entire process and the finished Tears looked horrible. I don't know if it will help cuz everything after the rough stage was done in my Lot-O but you may find it interesting,,,,especially the photos of the gas pockets that are sometimes thought to be fractures from tumbling the wrong way. linkconnrock |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 1, 2014 16:42:16 GMT -5
I see those gas bubbles. Some bigger than others. I also saw those cupped surface fractures. I attacked the cupped fractures aggressively w/the pre-shaping Tom.
And dug them out, but missed a few. Seen those in other materials. But the bubbles are impossible to eliminate. Am half way through the 2nd coarse grind today
and transferred the barrel from the 60 RPM shafts to the 30 RPM shafts to finish out the coarse grind.Had to add about 2 cups of glass filler to keep her 7/8 full.
From now on it will stay on the slower speed to polish. And conservatively over-filled at 7/8.
Tutorial is impressive. You could be hired to make process instructions. Can't have enough photos and detailed steps.
Showing the problems and defects is important. It warns you of problems that might be fixable early. And what to expect.
You did that in your tut. Well done.
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Post by connrock on Sept 2, 2014 9:00:18 GMT -5
James a lot of people won't show their failures and mistakes.I don't know if they are embarrassed,afraid people will think less of them or if they think they can fool people into believing they just don't do inferno work and are perfect every time.
I try to help and teach by showing ALL of my mistake in order to help others to not do the same thing.
I worked for 43 years in the same factory with a LOT of guys who thought they were better then me because they knew how to do something that I didn't.When I eventually learned how to do these things I told ANYONE who wanted to know how to do it and told them the mistakes I found along the way!
All of a sudden,,,,the "know-it-alls" didn't know it all anymore! LOL
Instruction manuals and teacher/instructors are my #1 pet peeves.
I have read thousands of instruction manuals in my work and have to wonder what the people who write them are thinking about when they write and illustrate them.Taking a CNC machine apart,finding the problem(s) with it,fixing them and putting the whole thing back together again is a VERY complex job.If the instruction.operators manuals are not written and illustrated in a way they you can understand them,,,you're sunk!I sank a LOT more then I was able to swim for a LONG time!
Teachers/instructors are "verbal instruction manuals" and in all my life I have had only 3 that I would consider good in their field!
I have NO qualifications in ANY field,,,no certificates or degrees,,no nothin!
What I do have a is a burning desire to help people to not make the same mistakes I have along the way.I can't help them to do the best possible work because I myself can't do that,,, but,, I can lead them down a road that may help them to do a top quality job as they apply their own ideas and techniques.
We are VERY fortunate here to have some VERY good teacher/instructors who are willing to to help time and time again!
connrock
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 2, 2014 9:29:26 GMT -5
I missed this original post but enjoyed catching up. I did a few batches of obsidian back in my rotary days but it took a lot of trial and error compared to the vibe tumbler. some apache tears would have been good to add as smalls in your batch.
chuck
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Post by iant on Sept 2, 2014 13:29:05 GMT -5
Good luck with these James, hope they turn out great!
I'm in the middle of tumbling some Botswana agate with many surface cup fractures - frustrating!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 4, 2014 8:17:53 GMT -5
Good luck with these James, hope they turn out great! I'm in the middle of tumbling some Botswana agate with many surface cup fractures - frustrating! The obsidian cuts fast and makes some thick slurry. Packed with glass filler and turning it slowly Ian. Gentle as possible. It still cuts fast with a lot of filler and 7/8 full barrel. Taking sweet time, no hurry w/this stuff. Prepared for failure at finish Botswana on the other hand is a hard material. Less prone to frosting but some long hours in coarse grind. No solution for fractures. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 4, 2014 8:29:11 GMT -5
James a lot of people won't show their failures and mistakes.I don't know if they are embarrassed,afraid people will think less of them or if they think they can fool people into believing they just don't do inferno work and are perfect every time. I try to help and teach by showing ALL of my mistake in order to help others to not do the same thing. I worked for 43 years in the same factory with a LOT of guys who thought they were better then me because they knew how to do something that I didn't.When I eventually learned how to do these things I told ANYONE who wanted to know how to do it and told them the mistakes I found along the way! All of a sudden,,,,the "know-it-alls" didn't know it all anymore! LOL Instruction manuals and teacher/instructors are my #1 pet peeves. I have read thousands of instruction manuals in my work and have to wonder what the people who write them are thinking about when they write and illustrate them.Taking a CNC machine apart,finding the problem(s) with it,fixing them and putting the whole thing back together again is a VERY complex job.If the instruction.operators manuals are not written and illustrated in a way they you can understand them,,,you're sunk!I sank a LOT more then I was able to swim for a LONG time! Teachers/instructors are "verbal instruction manuals" and in all my life I have had only 3 that I would consider good in their field! I have NO qualifications in ANY field,,,no certificates or degrees,,no nothin! What I do have a is a burning desire to help people to not make the same mistakes I have along the way.I can't help them to do the best possible work because I myself can't do that,,, but,, I can lead them down a road that may help them to do a top quality job as they apply their own ideas and techniques. We are VERY fortunate here to have some VERY good teacher/instructors who are willing to to help time and time again! connrock Maybe a negative approach, but seems like failure easier than success in many things. Easier to tear down a house than build one X100. I will say that a well balanced mix and a barrel a bit on the full side can't hurt. The problems are what needs to be pointed out, no doubt. learning from experience #1. Getting to a point where forgetfulness is an issue-now how did I do that right  ? |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 4, 2014 8:38:30 GMT -5
I missed this original post but enjoyed catching up. I did a few batches of obsidian back in my rotary days but it took a lot of trial and error compared to the vibe tumbler. some apache tears would have been good to add as smalls in your batch. chuck If I had apaches I sure would have used them Chuck. Rising to the challenge of obsidian in a rotary is task at hand. Assuming a long ride in 220. Hopefully not, was impressed w/the surface at end of first 30/60 grind. Running the 30/60 at 60 RPM for first 3 days, then 30 RPM for remaining 4 days as grit breaks down. Noticed 2 things that make sense 1) gas builds quicker at fast speed, but I attribute that to faster cutting from the fresh grit which opens more of the gas pockets in the obsidian 2) surface much smoother at day 7 with coarse grit so broken down, surface pretty rough at day 3 of coarse grind. The most peace of mind comes from lots of filler and a 7/8 full barrel. Another tumbling situation came up when avoiding frosted high spots tumbling these larger corals with pointed high spots. They require lots of smalls and a 7/8 full barrel to avoid frosting the high spots. Some weighed 10 ounces.  |
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Post by connrock on Sept 4, 2014 8:47:20 GMT -5
James forgetfulness is a normal thing for me now! LOL Sometimes I look at something I made and sit and shake my head wondering how the heck I did it!
I think my biggest problem with this is that I'm into sooooooooo many different things with rocks,minerals,leather and different metals!
If I just stuck to one thing maybe I COULD remember stuff! LOL
connrock
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Sept 4, 2014 9:02:25 GMT -5
That is glass your using as filler,is it James? Love picking up "sea glass" on the Pacific coast...Should have enough to tumble in another couple years...different sizes,colors and shapes..
That obsidian is really looking great too....My scrap obsidian goes in a can,so will have some great tumble material on that soon enough too,all different variety's ...(just throw it all in one can..)
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 4, 2014 9:08:57 GMT -5
James forgetfulness is a normal thing for me now! LOL Sometimes I look at something I made and sit and shake my head wondering how the heck I did it! I think my biggest problem with this is that I'm into sooooooooo many different things with rocks,minerals,leather and different metals! If I just stuck to one thing maybe I COULD remember stuff! LOL connrock Yep, jack of all trades never can remember the path he took. Or how deep in thought he was in at the time of accomplishment. People make a request and I say no because I am pretty sure I can not duplicate. Or have to mess up three to reproduce one. Bad frame of mind can really hinder too. First time victories are just that, 2nd time boring. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 4, 2014 9:31:36 GMT -5
That is glass your using as filler,is it James? Love picking up "sea glass" on the Pacific coast...Should have enough to tumble in another couple years...different sizes,colors and shapes.. That obsidian is really looking great too....My scrap obsidian goes in a can,so will have some great tumble material on that soon enough too,all different variety's ...(just throw it all in one can..) Michael, there is a giant glass remelt plant near me. Mountains of glass segregated by blue,green, brown and clear. They sell it for $70/ton ! They pile it as it comes in, so there is concentrations of certain colors. I give the guy $50 and fill a dozen 5 gal buckets. Often picking big chunks. No problem filling tumblers, and the stuff tumbles fast making (fake) sea glass. Glass fun to play with in the tumbler. A friend went to Italy and walked the beach under the populated bluffs overlooking the Mediterranean. She was shocked at the amount and variety, some very old. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 6, 2014 8:58:20 GMT -5
James forgetfulness is a normal thing for me now! LOL Sometimes I look at something I made and sit and shake my head wondering how the heck I did it! I think my biggest problem with this is that I'm into sooooooooo many different things with rocks,minerals,leather and different metals! If I just stuck to one thing maybe I COULD remember stuff! LOL connrock Started the obsidian on 220 aluminum oxide grit a couple of days ago Tom. As an experiment. I had found a 50 pound bucket of it in a junk yard for cheap so it gets used for tumbling weird stuff. I have 600 alum oxide too, and may use it for #3 step. Curious to see if the AO is less scratchy than SiC since it rounds instead of fracturing sharp like SiC. Probably not going to make a difference. I did take as good a close photo as my camera would allow. And I do have a few of those cupped fractures that are going to be there at final finish. Below photos after the 2nd 7 days in 30/60. So the AO 220 has to smooth this surface, shaping finished to my requirements. Close-up, best the camera and magnification would do, pit 5/16 inch for scale:  Another, pit 3/8 inch for scale:  Screened filler about 1/4"-3/8" after 14 days of 30/60 started sharp.  The rest of the filler, 1/2"-3/4", also 14 days in 30/60 started sharp.  |
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