quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
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Post by quartz on Nov 1, 2014 23:17:56 GMT -5
We got a box of floatey pellets about the size of BB's from a local Co. that melts them down to make nursery pots. Sinking pellets are the camo air soft pellets, ~$18 for 10k at Walmart. We use the sinking ones in 220 run, cut way back on chipping, and difficult to separate. Sometimes use floatey pellets in a difficult mtl. to polish run.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 2, 2014 7:24:07 GMT -5
We got a box of floatey pellets about the size of BB's from a local Co. that melts them down to make nursery pots. Sinking pellets are the camo air soft pellets, ~$18 for 10k at Walmart. We use the sinking ones in 220 run, cut way back on chipping, and difficult to separate. Sometimes use floatey pellets in a difficult mtl. to polish run. I wonder if it matters a whole lot whether the pellets float or sink. They are a lot lighter than the rocks, they may get pushed to the top anyway. The sinkers may float in a dirty heavy slurry. I had a small hydroseeder with a 12 HP solids pump, 500 gallon tank. I would buy 5 gallon buckets of concentrated lime solution to pour into the tank to up the PH. Those buckets were like picking up a 5 gallon rock, had to be the heaviest liquid on earth. The wetland seed mix came from the top layer of mud scraped off a local swamp where the seed bank was. Already wetted and winter stratified. Made a pump able slurry that had to be kept thin enough for the pump to shoot it at least 100 feet. Spayed it on new construction sites where they had disturbed the wetlands to revegetate them. Hydroseeder had a 4 inch valve that would allow slurry to be recirculated in tank for mixing before spraying. We threw cattail seed heads, bull rush seed heads and all kinds of stuff in that crazy machine. It would shoot clean water 200 feet and knock people off their feet. An off subject conversation that hydroseeder, but gave me some experience with heavy slurries that had been seriously agitated. The lime additive also served as a lubricant to pump organic solids and keep heavy muddy mixes from settling and plugging the pump. Lime used to float a lot of impurities in process. Or hold other particles in suspension. Betting it will work on abrasives like a charm. For instance, if wanting to reuse diamond abrasive. it could be captured by the lime and reused 100 times, cut fast and probably never get dull. Just wash the slurry into a bucket, let the slurry settle, pour off the water and save the cream or let it evaporate to a solid. The coarse grind would present problems due to the added rock dust, but the diamonds may settle to the bottom of the cream. Curious how fast 12 pounds would coarse grind with a cup of 60 grit diamond grit. It should not break down and cut at a 60 grit rate the whole tumble. Or 2-3 cups of AO 500 1000 5000 14,0000 suspended in lime in a 12 pound tumbler that would produce very little rock dust, and recapture it for reuse. Would more than normal amounts of grit well spread cut quicker ?
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Post by captbob on Nov 2, 2014 7:37:35 GMT -5
Gonna be hard to word this darn early, but...
If saving the grit/slurry, wouldn't you also be saving the material from the rocks lost during that stage? Like connrock's example awhile back where lost 2 lbs of rock weight in a small rough tumble; that rock material went somewhere. It's in the slurry. Seems like long term you would have a bunch of lost rock material in your slurry. Would that matter?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 2, 2014 7:49:28 GMT -5
Definitely have rock dust in coarse and somewhat in 220. It is a problem there. But rock dust in 500 1000 5000 14,000 should be no problem since it is a tiny amount. .02 pounds after polish, not bad
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 2, 2014 7:55:54 GMT -5
The lime is heavy. You may see the lime settle to the bottom, the colored rock dust on top. (in clear vessel for observation) Most grit is dense and may settle to the lower lime level. If so, mere settling may allow rock dust to be poured off. Another experiment
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 2, 2014 9:18:45 GMT -5
This slurry very thick. Probably too thick too have a tumble. Settled a 1/4 inch in 24 hours. Add water to thin.
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Nov 2, 2014 23:57:39 GMT -5
Observation has shown the sinking pellets do float to a degree in a fairly heavy slurry, most stay in suspension pretty well. The floatey pellets stay in suspension nearly as well too. Probably doesn't make a lot of difference which is used, so go cheap.
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Post by connrock on Nov 3, 2014 7:42:17 GMT -5
I'm a tad confused here,,,,again,,,,,,still! LOL When you refer to "rock dust" in the slurry,are you referring to the rock that has been ground off by the grit? connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 3, 2014 9:25:25 GMT -5
I'm a tad confused here,,,,again,,,,,,still! LOL When you refer to "rock dust" in the slurry,are you referring to the rock that has been ground off by the grit? connrock Yes connrock, and it may create a problem for recovery in coarse grind situation, but grit in the coarse bring grit should be used up and therefore there is no need to recover it. But 500 1000 5000 14000 50000 can be reused many times. And those grits create very little rock dust. And if you wanted to use diamond or expensive 500-50,000 it would be worth the effort to recover it. But yes, the rock dust is the rock that has been ground off. which is a lot in coarse grind, and maybe substantial in 220 grind.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 3, 2014 10:14:23 GMT -5
Observation has shown the sinking pellets do float to a degree in a fairly heavy slurry, most stay in suspension pretty well. The floatey pellets stay in suspension nearly as well too. Probably doesn't make a lot of difference which is used, so go cheap. Makes good sense Larry.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2014 0:38:46 GMT -5
I poured some light lime slurry off and wanted to see how it separates from water and captures some fine AO 1000 grit. Seemed to work like a charm. Clear water stayed on top and lime/grit mix settled to bottom. Poured the water off and heated the mix on a hot plate. Presto, lime and grit cake, ready to be rehydrated. Cake was soft and could be crushed with fingers in bag. And easily rehydrates. Learning about lime. Not sure what it all means except that it stays suspended in water. The hydrated lime particle is so small that, when the lime/water mixture is agitated, the lime particles stay in suspension for a relatively long time, even if the agitation is stopped. This is due to "brownian motion" (the constant vibration of water molecules) which constantly buffet the suspended lime particles. If the solution is constantly agitated (mixed) the particles will remain in suspension indefinitely. The suspended particles have a very high total surface area which means that, as the lime in solution is used up in reactions, more lime quickly dissolves into the solution ( Le Chatelier's Principle -" ... if a change is imposed on a system at equilibrium, the position of the equilibrium will shift in a direction that tends to reduce that change.") Each molecule of calcium hydroxide that ionizes produces two hydroxyl ions (OH-), thus providing a plentiful supply of neutralizing power. A good analogy of the effect of particles with a high surface area is that of a granary explosion. Grain, in a pile, is not all that combustible. However, if you pulverize it, and then suspend it as a fine dust in the air, a spark can result in an explosion. It is mined from an ordovician deposit in Alabama and must go through chemical/heating process. The limestone that is processed at our Landmark plant near Alabaster, AL comes from the Newala ledge of Ordovician Period stone, an amorphous mineral of 96-98% calcium carbonate.
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Post by connrock on Nov 4, 2014 6:43:50 GMT -5
Never seen tumbling taken to this level and it's pretty interesting! connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2014 8:28:33 GMT -5
quote author=" connrock" source="/post/775909/thread" timestamp="1415101430"]Never seen tumbling taken to this level and it's pretty interesting! connrock[/quote] Looking at obsidian, fluorite, the apatite that fl mentioned, and a bunch of other softer rocks. Maybe there is some cheap abrasives to use on them. You brought that up when you mentioned tripoli-What is tripoli Basically quartz ! Mr connrock polished obsidian with cheap quartz abrasive, he was cheating LOL. Different abrasives: www.wetblasting.com/AbrasivesThe lime came up from tumbling the soft lime layer off of coral connrock. i just noticed over the years what a nice slurry it made.(you get on to me about my sugar) But it has a lot of silica in it, i.e. not pure. So I looked up pure lime, and noticed it is pure and $7 dollars for 50 pounds, or less than $30 per ton. Available at garden dept. and feed stores. After research, it seems to be one of the best materials for holding particles(abrasives too) in suspension and slick(no need for sugar !!) It dries out well and rewets well. Separates to the bottom in water due to it's weight, and clings to other particles pulling them down w/it(grit recovery ?). I have been making slurries with the coral for a long time. About 4 weeks into coarse grind that complete clean out has to have fresh water and more rocks added. so i add come corals that have a thick lime coating that grinds off in 2 days making quick slurry. Never thought about lime being added from as a separate ingredient. Being tested
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Post by connrock on Nov 4, 2014 8:42:18 GMT -5
James you're the next generation tumbler with a wide background and a TON of knowledge! I hope the experimenting with lime get's you out of the "sugar business"! LOL connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2014 8:53:42 GMT -5
James you're the next generation tumbler with a wide background and a TON of knowledge! I hope the experimenting with lime get's you out of the "sugar business"! LOL connrock Just call me 'sugar boy' connrock. If sugar aggravates you then one goal accomplished:). Some abrasive slurries and suspensions. They are expensive. I noticed the suspensions are proprietary. Cheap jokers probably use lime and food coloring and laugh all the way to the bank. Food coloring would be a way to keep up w/tumbling slurries.
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Post by nowyo on Nov 4, 2014 20:31:38 GMT -5
This is certainly an interesting thread. I'm thinking that adding lime will raise the pH of the slurry/solution. Any thoughts as to how that may effect things? It will be interesting to see how thick of a slurry you can run and still get decent polishing action.
Russ
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2014 21:34:27 GMT -5
This is certainly an interesting thread. I'm thinking that adding lime will raise the pH of the slurry/solution. Any thoughts as to how that may effect things? It will be interesting to see how thick of a slurry you can run and still get decent polishing action. Russ Russ, it has been running for 5 days with no abrasive on well rounded obsidian at 1000 stage. It slowly gets thicker. Newspaper and sugar gets thinner. It might be the smoothest 'cream' imaginable. The way it gets thicker makes it safe, at least it does not get thinner and damage the rocks. it seems to create a slight vacuum so far. If grit were removing material it seems gas would start to form with rocks like obsidian. or if acidic rocks were grinding. I see no change in the 1000 finish, so I don't think it is abrasive, supposed to be mohs 3. No doubt that the pH is high. I will be adding 5000 polish soon to see if the thick slurry will polish. And it will be added with the slurry overly thick. To see if it will strain the polishing. I could see 2 uses. One for a general slurry and another for a thick slurry that may protect delicate rocks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 14:54:33 GMT -5
Are you using using "limestone" or "lime" which is calcium hydroxide and relatively dangerous with a caustic pH.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 5, 2014 18:53:11 GMT -5
Are you using using "limestone" or "lime" which is calcium hydroxide and relatively dangerous with a caustic pH. Calcium Hydroxide and you are absolutely correct, it is hot. I have a bag of garden lime too. i need to look at it's composition. The coral has a soft coating of what seems to be limestone. It is much lower in PH. It is soft and makes the same consistency of slurry. All the limestone down there in the ph 4-5 water seems buffered, it has been soaking in that acid water for many years. I will look into a more comfortable ph lime. I think calcium hydroxide is made by mixing calcium oxide(oxalate??) with water. He also had bags of athletic field marker. this calcium hydroxide is about as hot as tile grout.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 0:29:33 GMT -5
Field marker is marble calcium carbonate. The main west coast mine is 40 miles from here.
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