rockit
starting to shine!
Member since January 2015
Posts: 44
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Post by rockit on Jan 22, 2015 16:01:10 GMT -5
I just finished a batch on 120/220 SiC, I kept my barrel 2/3 full, ran for 8 days. My load is a mixed bag from The Rock Shed-dalmation, jasper, lab, quartz, various agates. The rocks had a nice smooth matte finish on them, so I put them in a burnish stage. First I used borax only, the water kept coming out grayish, so I ran out got Ivory, ran a few hours with that (this was when I realized I forgot plastic pellets and then added them, but the rocks all still looked good), the water came out rust colored, then I ran the rinse cycle. When rinsing, I started to notice my rocks had little V-shaped chunks missing on them. Even the Botswana agates had them, not completely covered, but I know those chunks weren't in the rocks before. (the lab is a complete mess despite looking good up until the burnish stage) Did I just bruise my whole batch and need to run them in the coarse grind again? Or what happened to the rocks? Ugh, everything was looking so good...
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Post by 150FromFundy on Jan 22, 2015 16:34:28 GMT -5
Mixed batches are attractive to newbies because you want to kick start your new hobby with a lot of variety. However, your are likely to have better results if you stick to a load of one material only. This is particularly important with certain rocks such as fluorite, calcite, obsidian (Apache Tears) and yes, labradorite. Labradorite can be a tough tumble even for some veteran members. For your next batch, stick to all one material and I think you will be happier with the results.
In order to salvage this tumble, you can separate the chipped from the unchipped and finish the unchipped, or go back to the 60/90 with the batch.
Darryl.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 22, 2015 17:31:31 GMT -5
Darryl is correct about mixed batches being potentially problematic, but I run mixed batches all the time and I never have a problem. I only do the first stage in a rotary, and I'm guessing you're doing your second stage in a rotary too. I would think that a place as reputable as the Rock Shed would make a mix of compatible rocks though. Could you post a picture of your damaged rocks? That might help someone here diagnose your problem.
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rockit
starting to shine!
Member since January 2015
Posts: 44
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Post by rockit on Jan 22, 2015 17:32:58 GMT -5
Thanks Darryl
I got the tumbler as a gift, so I didn't get any extra rough with it, I just started with what I had. I purchased some bots and quartz a week later to add as the rocks wore down and to keep the barrel full.
Didn't really expect much to come of whatever I was going to tumble, I just wanted to do a test run to get a feel for what I was doing. I didn't even know the lab was in there until after the first week of 60/90-suppose I should have just pulled it out then.
*sigh* I really like the shape of some of the rocks that have to go back to 60/90.
EDIT: getting pics uploaded now jugglerguy
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 22, 2015 17:47:17 GMT -5
I have had bad problems with mixed hardness batches too. Bruising is really little microfractures and or abrasions when harder stones hit softer ones. Mostly it appears as frosting or light chipping. As mentioned above, it's always worked way better for me when I do not run mixed hardness batches. I even use a vibe for all the last three stages and a pile of smalls for padding but unlike Rob, it don't work for this dude *L*..Mel
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Post by captbob on Jan 22, 2015 17:47:29 GMT -5
Why are you doing a burnish after 120/220?
Did you start out with a coarser grit?
If the 120/220 was your first stage, 8 days isn't a very long run. 8 WEEKS maybe...
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 22, 2015 18:11:57 GMT -5
I don't think it's actually a burnish, but I run two washes between all stages (except between 80 and 220). I rinse well, then return to the vibe tumbler for 15 minutes to one hour with either soap or borax. The water is always quite dirty after the first wash and much cleaner after the second wash. I do it to avoid contamination.
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rockit
starting to shine!
Member since January 2015
Posts: 44
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Post by rockit on Jan 22, 2015 18:19:25 GMT -5
I hope I did this right: captbob I ran the coarse 60/90 for 3 weeks, then a burnish...I'm just trying out what I read here. Some people burnish after every stage...yes/no?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 22, 2015 18:31:44 GMT -5
That's way beyond bruising. I've never had something like that develop after the rock has finished the first stage. I also have very rarely finished a rough stage in three weeks. If that was crushed rock from the Rock Shed, I'd love to know how you got it looking that good in only three weeks. I know you said that those chips weren't there after the rough stage, but that's the only way I can imagine them getting there. It's chips like those that keep my rocks in the rough stage so long. It takes a long time to get rid of those last few imperfections. This is a piece of obsidian I was having some trouble with in the roughing stage. I consider this "frosting" or bruising.
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Post by broseph82 on Jan 22, 2015 18:54:16 GMT -5
rockitThose are straight up chunks missing. I've had those too. Might be not enough cushioning and your rocks are banging together too much instead of gently rubbing. Try more filler, more water, and let it run a couple weeks.
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rockit
starting to shine!
Member since January 2015
Posts: 44
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Post by rockit on Jan 22, 2015 19:10:21 GMT -5
jugglerguy okay, well at least I know what bruising looks like now.
no, seriously, I was just following whatever I was reading here. I followed the instructions for the first run according to what came with the thumler's rotary 3#. I read some more on here, realized I had WAY too much water in the barrel after the first week, so I dumped some water out, ordered more grit from TRS, with some bots and quartz. When I got the grit a few days later, dumped everything out, added some of the bots and quartz, more grit, less water, and let it go.
The rocks were nicely rounded, and frosty so I went ahead with the 120/220. Burnish with borax then ivory. Both were run for 24 hours-because I've been sick and forgot about them-oopsie. (so maybe borax does some polishing?!?!?)
Perhaps the chips were there previously, the lighting in the basement is poor and I just finally got another light source down there.
Not everything has the chips, so back into the 60/90.
Can I still mix some of the rough as long as they are all the same hardness? Or should I stay with one type until I get the tumble/polish thing down?
thanks for your help!
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rockit
starting to shine!
Member since January 2015
Posts: 44
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Post by rockit on Jan 22, 2015 19:14:48 GMT -5
rockitThose are straight up chunks missing. I've had those too. Might be not enough cushioning and your rocks are banging together too much instead of gently rubbing. Try more filler, more water, and let it run a couple weeks. broseph82 run a few more weeks in 120/220 or back into 60/90?
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 22, 2015 19:16:14 GMT -5
that mix is not a problem, and even the hardest rocks had gouges.
I think your burnish w/o pellets may have been too harsh. without slurry or pellets it would have been pretty clinky in there.
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Post by broseph82 on Jan 22, 2015 19:20:57 GMT -5
rockitThose are straight up chunks missing. I've had those too. Might be not enough cushioning and your rocks are banging together too much instead of gently rubbing. Try more filler, more water, and let it run a couple weeks. broseph82 run a few more weeks in 120/220 or back into 60/90? 60/90 but cushion it more or take the imperfections to the wheels and grind them down. I had a similar problem with my Jasper's but now that I've added almost a cup of water it's kept the slurry thicker and haven't had that problem also, kept it in for a couple weeks this past time before I cleaned out and reloaded.
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rockit
starting to shine!
Member since January 2015
Posts: 44
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Post by rockit on Jan 22, 2015 19:29:31 GMT -5
that mix is not a problem, and even the hardest rocks had gouges. I think your burnish w/o pellets may have been too harsh. without slurry or pellets it would have been pretty clinky in there. I was afraid of that, thought about it a few hours later *d'oh* broseph82 don't have a wheel-but I do have a dremel (with a flex-shaft). hmmm...not all the rocks have chunks missing, I'll assess them better next week, gotta take care of other stuff this weekend. thank-you all for your help!
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 22, 2015 19:58:38 GMT -5
you would have to order a diamond barrel bit to effectively apply the dremel.
when you consider that you need to remove the depth of the gouge all over the stone, that is going to take time in course. course grinds down protruding bits a lot quicker than holes (where the rest of the rock is protruding.)
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riverrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2010
Posts: 1,395
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Post by riverrock on Jan 22, 2015 20:17:50 GMT -5
When I read that your are doing them in your basement. REMEMBER NEVER PUT YOUR WASTE WATER DOWN YOUR DRAIN.
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Post by broseph82 on Jan 22, 2015 20:44:08 GMT -5
When I read that your are doing them in your basement. REMEMBER NEVER PUT YOUR WASTE WATER DOWN YOUR DRAIN. We all end up putting a little bit down the drain. Don't lie and say you've never dumped just a little grit down there. :-)
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Post by captbob on Jan 22, 2015 20:53:53 GMT -5
uh... I've never put anything out of a tumbler down my drain(s).
I have, however, jumped off a bridge because my friends did.
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Post by Pat on Jan 22, 2015 23:46:40 GMT -5
Not a tumbler, but I think bruising looks like the opaque white spots we get on a fingernail when we bang it with a hammer. Or a rock.
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