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Post by captbob on Feb 2, 2015 11:23:03 GMT -5
I understand about the 500 stage, but I'm having a "what-if" moment and wondering if I thickened my burnish stage with sugar if it would have the same effect. Wasn't it you that mentioned that the burnish ruined a load? jamesp - is sugar gassy in a sealed barrel?
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Post by broseph82 on Feb 2, 2015 11:27:54 GMT -5
I understand about the 500 stage, but I'm having a "what-if" moment and wondering if I thickened my burnish stage with sugar if it would have the same effect. Wasn't it you that mentioned that the burnish ruined a load? jamesp - is sugar gassy in a sealed barrel? No, burnish didn't ruin a load. I had some AO500 get embedded into some moss agate and the burnish didn't take it out. AND my wife believes the spot gun made it worse trying to get the AO out of it.
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Post by 1dave on Feb 2, 2015 11:54:29 GMT -5
I made some interesting observations during this run regarding thickness of slurry. Not 100% sure, but it sure seems tike the thicker the slurry to a point, the faster the given grit at that step reaches finish. Not just a finish, an excellent finish for that given grit. Noticed this 3 times. . . . The above 3 instances are leading me to believe that very fast quality results are gotten from a really thick slurry. It appears that the finish is degrading by micro spalling due to only having a thick slurry and not a super thick slurry. It does not take but a few hours to ruin the finish in a vibe with straight water-that's a fact. . . . 'Super thick' defined as so thick that the rolling action of the rocks is reduced to rolling over one cycle in like 8-12 seconds. i.e. slow Compared to straight water where rolling cycle is 2-3 seconds. i.e. fast With the slurry 'super thick', there is about zero chance of leaving grit at the bottom of the hopper, ain't going to happen. That thick of a slurry would have grabbed lead bird shot and sent it up thru the rocks.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2015 12:37:31 GMT -5
connrock & captbob waiting for the picture show jamesp where are the connrock obsidian pictures you spoke of? It was in one of my threads captbob back in the rotary obsidian saga. It was a photo of tripoli in the vibe. connrock had posted it. I think it was from his 'how to' vibe obsidian instructional sequence. Sugar alone with rocks, grit and water has probably never created gas. I have added it to prevent gas, and had about 50% success. Of course, when rough grinding any glass, gas will increase. Especially if you are using glass filler during rough grind; that is a double whammy.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2015 12:49:31 GMT -5
Me too 1dave. It often does not 'just fall into place'. Murphy and his law always close by. He can just go away.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 16:59:41 GMT -5
If the sugar does ferment add borax to poison the yeast.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2015 17:22:33 GMT -5
If the sugar does ferment add borax to poison the yeast. Agate Dust Wine, silicifies your brain.
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Post by 1dave on Feb 3, 2015 10:50:41 GMT -5
Me too 1dave. It often does not 'just fall into place'. Murphy and his law always close by. He can just go away. The best quote from the latest Black List is when Red tells the villain: I think the first part applies in your case.
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Post by connrock on Feb 3, 2015 11:08:51 GMT -5
Well James,,,you finally got that "sweet" shine you were after and ya done well pard! Persistence and a whole lot of patience,,,,with a spoon or two of sugar,,,paid off for you! Seeins how captbob is bringin the popcorn to the theater,,,can you get me a seat right next to him? LOL connrock ya think Bob eats popcorn ? With 60 grit... I wanted to ask you if your slurry is so thick it slows the motion on the rocks. Or if you pick up a rock will another about stick to it. Looked at some of your obsidian photos and it sure looked like a paste. Hard to tell from photos though. The rocks do slow down but the "rolling" action in the barrel HAS to me maintained or the rocks will "connect" to each other and that causes damage to the rock surfaces. capt bob asked about my obsidian photos and the only one I can find or think of is the following photo.This was the infamous Apache Tear batch where I found that (what I think) are gas pockets that go throughout the entire rock. I did this load of Apache Tears to show folks that obsidian is NOT evil and I got bit BAD cuz they came out terrible!Maybe they do have a little evil in them? LOL I think the only good that came out of doing this load was discovering the gas pockets! LOL connrock
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Post by connrock on Feb 3, 2015 11:11:34 GMT -5
Gettin ready for the Big Show!!! LOL connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 4, 2015 4:56:26 GMT -5
I see a ressemblance, I think you guys are taller though. connrock-Question. How would I tumble 1/8 inch garnets ? Is there a way to tumble them filling the rotary with all small garnets ? Or is a mix of sizes going to be needed ? In this case, it would be tumbling the filler... Like 50% garnets and 50% agate may be required. Looking for the highest filler ratio. Opinions ? I suppose the smart thing to do would be to just use them for filler with normal agate tumbling operation. But really want to concentrate on tumbling these garnets in mass for resale project.
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Post by connrock on Feb 4, 2015 8:31:08 GMT -5
I really don't see much good coming out of tumbling 1/8" garnets cuz by the time they're polished they'd be almost sand? I think they may even bee kind of small even using them as filler but (if anything) that's what I'd do with them rather then trying to do them on their own? The only experience I have with tumbling garnets was doing a load of almandine garnets found here in Roxbury CT at Green's Farm.They have a VERY high iron content and not gemmy at all. I got a shine on them but nothing to brag about.They were done in a rotary before I had my 1st vibe so they seemed to take forever to finish. A lot of work and time for a so-so would-be gem. Mix them in with your agates or coral,,,what have you got to loose? connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 4, 2015 10:53:32 GMT -5
I really don't see much good coming out of tumbling 1/8" garnets cuz by the time they're polished they'd be almost sand? I think they may even bee kind of small even using them as filler but (if anything) that's what I'd do with them rather then trying to do them on their own? The only experience I have with tumbling garnets was doing a load of almandine garnets found here in Roxbury CT at Green's Farm.They have a VERY high iron content and not gemmy at all. I got a shine on them but nothing to brag about.They were done in a rotary before I had my 1st vibe so they seemed to take forever to finish. A lot of work and time for a so-so would-be gem. Mix them in with your agates or coral,,,what have you got to loose? connrock Thanks. Your thoughts similar about procedure. Gotta figure this one out, got like big quantities, nice grade. What if they were put in that tall tumbler w/20 inch bowl. It beats up 2 inch agates, certainly it would not bruise these tiny garnets if they were running by themselves. Just curious if it would round the edges. Come on, tell it. Check them out, wanting to make pretty purple coarse sand.
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Feb 4, 2015 22:52:03 GMT -5
We did a bunch in a 3 1/2" I.D. x 5 1/2" long barrel running 76 R.P.M., 80 grit FOREVER, they did round up and eventually got to polish and made 'em shiny. It's been about 18 yrs., all we remember is it took a long time. That big barrel may well do the job.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2015 5:13:15 GMT -5
We did a bunch in a 3 1/2" I.D. x 5 1/2" long barrel running 76 R.P.M., 80 grit FOREVER, they did round up and eventually got to polish and made 'em shiny. It's been about 18 yrs., all we remember is it took a long time. That big barrel may well do the job. Yesterday I filled the big diameter bowl with 1/2 inch glass. added 30/60. To see if it will round off a load of all small stuff only. make sense ? That darn bowl is a real rock chipper, you said it, it builds up and then has avalanches with 1-2 inch rocks.Chipping them. Not with the smalls though, just a continuous 'flow' as if it were 3/4 full of sand. sounds like a lot of smooth grinding travel on the particles. Maybe adding 30-40-50% agate/coral in the 1/2 to 1 inch range ? I would like to tumble tiny stuff in 50 pound lots. Better if the 50 pounds was all smalls, and no space wasted on larger 'filler'. The fact that it beats up rocks in the 1-2 inch range may make it a great tumbler for smalls. not sure....but hard to bruise smalls by them self. Thanks for the input on your garnets. It is like tumbling large amounts of your small sunstone by themselves. Similar situation.
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Post by connrock on Feb 5, 2015 7:59:00 GMT -5
Quartz said it right,,,,it takes a LONG time to do garnets!
If they were bigger then 1/8" it would be worth your time,effort and grit but I still think they're way too small to do!
I guess trying to get me into tumbling micro garnets is like me trying to get you out of the "pantry" with your tumbling! LOL
connrock
Your garnet photo just popped up on my screen!It wasn't there when I posted the above post??? They are some awesome looking garnets James!It looks like a lot of them could be faceted?
I guess if I had garnets like that I'd have to give them a ride in a tumbler.Are you sure they're only 1/8"? Even with the dime next to them they look bigger then that? Maybe if you have enough of the garnets to fill the hopper in your Viking,,you can toss them in there? I wouldn't use any sugar or filler,,,,,just as is,,,with grit and water of course! LOL
Ok,,,I caved in on the garnets,,,now it's your turn to come out of the pantry! LOL
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2015 8:57:58 GMT -5
Quartz said it right,,,,it takes a LONG time to do garnets! If they were bigger then 1/8" it would be worth your time,effort and grit but I still think they're way too small to do! I guess trying to get me into tumbling micro garnets is like me trying to get you out of the "pantry" with your tumbling! LOL connrock Your garnet photo just popped up on my screen!It wasn't there when I posted the above post??? They are some awesome looking garnets James!It looks like a lot of them could be faceted? I guess if I had garnets like that I'd have to give them a ride in a tumbler.Are you sure they're only 1/8"? Even with the dime next to them they look bigger then that? Maybe if you have enough of the garnets to fill the hopper in your Viking,,you can toss them in there? I wouldn't use any sugar or filler,,,,,just as is,,,with grit and water of course! LOL Ok,,,I caved in on the garnets,,,now it's your turn to come out of the pantry! LOL I bought about 100 pounds of them Tom, they are old stock US garnets. They are a bit bigger than 1/8, measuring a few now, but not by much. The vibe suggestion sounds bang on. I suppose speeding up the vibe to allowable fast setting would be a good idea ? Yes, there are crystals and little facet grades in there. I don't know if such a tiny one is worth the effort to facet though. I figured they will look nice as a shiny coarse sand though.
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Feb 5, 2015 13:35:48 GMT -5
You mentioned running the little sunstones: That angled tumbler I made to try out didn't work at all with rough, blocky, pieces, but ran sunstones like a dream. As you said, sounds like a constant flow of sand. Why doncha try running a load in the big round one and in the vibe for a comparative, be an interesting experiment. The garnets do look good polished.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2015 19:49:27 GMT -5
You mentioned running the little sunstones: That angled tumbler I made to try out didn't work at all with rough, blocky, pieces, but ran sunstones like a dream. As you said, sounds like a constant flow of sand. Why doncha try running a load in the big round one and in the vibe for a comparative, be an interesting experiment. The garnets do look good polished. Good to know. Will do, whichever works best. The small glass seems to be fine in the large round one. At least it is not beating it up like it was larger rocks. If you were running little garnets in the big round one, how high would you fill it ? It is 20 inches in diameter and running vertical(no slant). say 15 inches ? maybe water at 12 inches ?
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Feb 5, 2015 23:25:01 GMT -5
15" of rock is 3/4 full, and quite a ways back into the "pinch" of the drum. I'm wondering if that would create a shuffle such that the mtl. in the center would more just ride a circle near the center, I'd go 12". Think I'd hold the water back to 8" max. Need to hold the grit to the product. Sounds good from here, you can hit me with something if I'm all wet, wouldn't be the first time.
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