Cob
starting to shine!
Member since February 2015
Posts: 29
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Post by Cob on Feb 11, 2015 18:52:19 GMT -5
Hi, First off - Hello to you all and what a great resource! I've been lurking and sifting through all the content here for a week or two. Trying to soak it all in before making a decision and buying my first tumbler. I've narrowed it down to either the Thumler's AR-2 or Lortone 33B versus the Raytech TV-5. Between the 2 twin barrels are there any opinions on which one is more reliable with proper maintenance? Does anyone know if one turns the barrels significantly faster than the other model? I am steering towards one of those because I would like having 2 barrels at a good price. The QT-66 is out of my reach for now. I like the idea of not completely smoothing out the rocks but still adding a nice polish and (I think) being able to put somewhat larger pieces in the Raytech. I noticed a lot of people would recommend a better vibe but my budget doesn't allow at this time so it would have to be the TV-5. Ideally I would get both a tumbler and a Lot-O or something but at this point in time I have to pick one or the other from the less expensive models. Below are some pictures of the type of creek agate and carnelian I collect and will be using. I also have some plain old blue agate/chalcedony with a lot of rough on the outsides, and a bunch of jasper pieces and larger nodules of carnelian that will Not fit in a 3 lb. barrel, which brings me back to looking at the TV-5 with it's larger open top and higher weight rating. So I guess I'm trying to decide if the vibe would be able to handle the larger pieces (within reason) AND would it give a nice polish without too much grinding down and shaping (but still able to remove some of the rough rind to get at the surface worth polishing) - or would I be better off using a regular tumbler for a shorter amount of time on the 1st stage for less rounding? I've read a lot about carrying grit over to the next stage with rocks that aren't totally smooth yet so that's def. something to consider, but I'm somewhat stubborn with the idea of keeping the unique shape of each rock as well as getting a decent polish.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 11, 2015 19:49:24 GMT -5
I have a Lortone 33b and a QT66. I also have a Lot-O. I like all three a lot, but I don't have anything else to compare to them. Did you seem recent post about tumbling in just a vibe? I went way overboard, just to see what would happen, but it shows very well what happens to the shape of the rocks in just a vibe. The rocks are in polish now and I'll post pictures on Friday. Last night when I took them out of 1000 they were super shiny. My point is that i think you can get what you're after with a vibratory tumbler. Personally I prefer a combination of rotary and vibratory, but that's just my preference.
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rockit
starting to shine!
Member since January 2015
Posts: 44
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Post by rockit on Feb 11, 2015 20:23:10 GMT -5
I am new to tumbling so I can only give you limited personal advice. I preferred the Thumler's over the Lortone for the fact that the Thumler's has a more 'open' design, you can get to the rollers easily for minor tweaking-I have adjusted my rollers to make it a bit more quiet, the motor has easy access for oiling. The Lortone seems to be a more enclosed design, and I'm not sure how easy it is to get to the rollers/motor for adjustments or maintenance. Also, what happens if the lid started to leak on a Lortone? Would it leak into the motor? If a Thumler's lid leaked, it would just leak onto the table or whatever it's sitting on. Anybody with a Lortone can jump in and give advice on ease of maintenance.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 11, 2015 20:40:17 GMT -5
I'm not super mechanical and I found it pretty easy to get to the motor on my 33b. The bearings wore out after about 3 years and ruined my rollers. I ordered new rollers and replaced them easily. I'll be keeping a closer eye on the plastic bearings in the future. It's easy to oil the bearings and the motor doesn't need to be oiled. The lids have never leaked, but if they did I don't know how it would get on the motor.
I've heard that the motors last longer on thumlers but that the lids are terrible. I'm not sure if this is still the case or if they've been improved.
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Post by captbob on Feb 11, 2015 22:56:24 GMT -5
I don't have one, and have only read this, but I've read it in more than one place...
Have heard that the bowls on the Raytech TV-5 aren't all that. They wear through and have also been known to split open. Hopefully, someone that knows more about this or has experience with this unit will chime in.
All vibe bowls will wear out, but these don't seem to last as long as owners expect them to.
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 11, 2015 23:44:11 GMT -5
All depends on how many pounds you expect to tumble in a year... for me thats around 100+ lbs of rock on average.. thus I have a large tumbler because my smaller tumbler just couldn't keep up.
My tip is chose the one that fits your expected tumble weight so you don't have to run it year round. I would have personally liked to have bought the large one I currently have compared to my smaller one. Granted my large one is a commercial size tumbler.. so things don't wear out as fast.. I have replaced many parts on my smaller tumbler.. nothing on my large one thus far.
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Post by captbob on Feb 12, 2015 0:11:27 GMT -5
You haven't even had your large tumbler 5 months yet, done what - 2 "loads"? I would hope nothing had needed replacing yet! Your small barrel is a 12 lb Thumbler's I believe? What had had to be replaced? I've had an ar-12 for years and nothing has worn out or broken. Thumbler's makes excellent machines. The OP has budget constraints, wrote: The QT-66 is out of my reach for now. So, I don't think that pounds per year has all that much to do with his/her decision. Personally, Cob, I'd go with a rotary tumbler to start off and learn with it before getting a vibe. ETA: Make sure you shop around. You may even find something decent on your local Craigslist.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Feb 12, 2015 10:07:33 GMT -5
The 33b is a good little machine. I have two and can't complain about the service they have given. Lortone barrels are great and don't leak as a general rule. Maintenance is easy peasy. Motor does not need to be oiled only the bushings, one drop of oil on each once a month. The belts are durable and last quite a while.
Be aware that in a vibe just because a rock fits into the bowl it will be OK to run. If it is too large it can sit on the bottom and wear through. Exception to this might be the Lot-O. I have heard that if you can stuff it through the opening it will go.
The Lortone 3# barrels are about 3 7/8 inches. I have done 3, three inch rocks in mine at once. Rest of the load being 1/4 to 1/2 inch.
Welcome to the forum and your rough looks great.
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Cob
starting to shine!
Member since February 2015
Posts: 29
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Post by Cob on Feb 12, 2015 11:41:23 GMT -5
Thank you for the replies. Does one have to run both barrels with weight in them on the AR-2, 33b, and QT-66?
tkvancil thanks for that info, I didn't know it was possible to tumble pieces that size in the 3# barrels. That's great news, even if only a few at a time. I have more large pieces than small 1" and under.
Jugglerguy yes I read through your thread the other day. Very helpful pictures. How long would it take the average tumbler to get to the state of the day 20 picture?
The QT-66 looks sweet and I think it could handle some of the many larger pieces I want to tumble. That would kill my budget though and grit seems to be fairly expensive. Is it roughly 1 oz = 1 Tbsp for grit weight? According to the instructions it requires 10 Tbsp per barrel per step. That would add up fast.
I've been checking craigslist for about two weeks. I always wonder if a seller will be honest about hours on the motor but if the price is right I'll go for it. Anything to watch out for besides obvious damage when buying Used?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 12, 2015 12:43:42 GMT -5
Here's an article about buying used tumblers. It's written by someone selling tumblers, so it might be biased, but overall I think it's pretty good advice. I use 6-8 tablespoons of 80 grit in each of my QT66 barrels. Kingsley North sells 80 grit at good prices. I bought a couple 45 lb boxes when it was on sale. It might always be cheap now, I'm not sure. Those boxes should last me a couple years. Usually I just finish rocks in my Lot-O, so I don't use muc of other grits at all. I'm not sure how to answer your other question about how long it takes with an average tumbler to get to my day 20 picture. By "average", do you mean "rotary"? In a rotary, the rocks will get much more rounded, which I prefer. I had some of this same material running this summer for about eight weeks and it wasn't all that close to being ready for the next stage yet. I took it out because I had some other rocks I wanted to run and I just haven't gotten it back in yet, When I do get back to it, I'll run it until it is perfect, taking out rock as they get done. The rotary stuff will never look just like my day 20 picture though.
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Cob
starting to shine!
Member since February 2015
Posts: 29
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Post by Cob on Feb 12, 2015 13:46:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the article link. Yeah I worded that bad. If we put the rounding and shaping differences aside and say we had a nice smooth rounded rock with no pits except for one crusty patch - which type would remove the crusty part faster, vibe or rotary?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 12, 2015 13:50:40 GMT -5
A grinder would be the best option, but I think the next best would be a rotary tumbler.
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Cob
starting to shine!
Member since February 2015
Posts: 29
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Post by Cob on Feb 12, 2015 13:55:02 GMT -5
I actually really like the look of your 'rough tumble in a vibe' pieces at the day 20 mark in your photos. That's very close to what I am looking to do but then I would have to deal with the grit carry over issue when they aren't perfectly smooth. I can't wait to see the polished pictures. Oh and by best option does that also mean the fastest, besides grinding of course? Like it took 20 days in the vibe, would a rotary accomplish it in 20 days as well if you were using my example rock (rounded and smooth except for one crusty patch)?
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 12, 2015 14:28:49 GMT -5
You haven't even had your large tumbler 5 months yet, done what - 2 "loads"? I would hope nothing had needed replacing yet! Your small barrel is a 12 lb Thumbler's I believe? What had had to be replaced? I've had an ar-12 for years and nothing has worn out or broken. Thumbler's makes excellent machines. The OP has budget constraints, wrote: The QT-66 is out of my reach for now. So, I don't think that pounds per year has all that much to do with his/her decision. Personally, Cob, I'd go with a rotary tumbler to start off and learn with it before getting a vibe. ETA: Make sure you shop around. You may even find something decent on your local Craigslist. Belts, lids needed replaced and the rubber bits are wearing down
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Post by broseph82 on Feb 12, 2015 15:25:34 GMT -5
captbob you are the call-out king. Ha
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minerken
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2013
Posts: 466
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Post by minerken on Feb 12, 2015 16:01:14 GMT -5
I use the TV5 exclusively BUT DISCLOSURE I only use it for cabs and 600-1500 grit sic so there is no significant wear on the tubs as I have one for every grit, OC ya I guess as far as leaking water through the lid I have one that is cracked and there is no leakage even from it if you have leakage I would expect that one is using way to much water the only water I see is in the form of condensation drops from the heat of the tumbling at the most a teaspoon full, even if it did leak there is no way to get in the motor. Like I said I only tumble cabs usually between fourty and fifty at a time so the tumbler is Idle lots of the time I have never had to do any maintenance or replace any parts. Probably not a good analogy for you but they do work and quite well for my application.
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Post by captbob on Feb 12, 2015 16:49:52 GMT -5
I didn't mean to seem harsh. He's proud of his 40 pounder - and I would be too! I want one!!!
But the OP isn't in the market for such a beast, and to talk down smaller tumblers isn't helpful.
I happened to know that his "smaller" tumbler is a Thumbler's 12, and that's a fine unit. I have two running right now.
Saying "I have replaced many parts on my smaller tumbler.." makes it sound like something was wrong with the tumbler or that "smaller" models aren't any good. That's just not so.
Replacing belts is just a cost of doing business, and if you have to replace the lid on a ar-12, that means you are using it and it's not sitting empty collecting dust. Also what I consider normal. It's kinda like saying my Toyota truck is no good because I had to change the the air filter or put new tires on it.
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 13, 2015 2:18:01 GMT -5
I didn't mean to seem harsh. He's proud of his 40 pounder - and I would be too! I want one!!! But the OP isn't in the market for such a beast, and to talk down smaller tumblers isn't helpful. I happened to know that his "smaller" tumbler is a Thumbler's 12, and that's a fine unit. I have two running right now. Saying "I have replaced many parts on my smaller tumbler.." makes it sound like something was wrong with the tumbler or that "smaller" models aren't any good. That's just not so. Replacing belts is just a cost of doing business, and if you have to replace the lid on a ar-12, that means you are using it and it's not sitting empty collecting dust. Also what I consider normal. It's kinda like saying my Toyota truck is no good because I had to change the the air filter or put new tires on it. I'm talking about buying the size that fits the yearly poundage you want to tumble.... I plan on tumbling a minimum of 100 lbs of material... my 12 lb tumbler just couldn't keep up and I just got lucky to get a 40 lb tumbler. If I would have known what my yearly poundage would have been beforehand I might have just went with something large to begin with (as I already knew the basic tumbling steps from my old 3 lb tumbler) It also depends how round you want the rock. My 12 lb tumbler would take weeks to round some rocks good enough. Mind you I like to tumble large rocks. I can say that my commercial tumbler has a lot better build quality than my AR-12... more heavy duty as you might expect.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Feb 13, 2015 10:15:19 GMT -5
Cob in a 3# tumbler you can get all the sharp edges smoothed off in a week to three. Removal of pits or cracks will take months. A perfectly rounded stone will also take a month or three. I understand what your looking to do so I would count on a couple weeks to a couple months for an individual rock depending on your exact taste. For coarse grit in a 3 pounder you'll be using 2 to 4 tablespoons per load. So a box of 80 grit from Kingsley would last you a good long while www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/product.php?id=100837&catID=1053 . When I first started tumbling I ordered 5 pound boxes but soon found out I was running out too quickly. The larger box is the best way to go.
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Post by captbob on Feb 13, 2015 10:23:28 GMT -5
glennz01: I understand what you're talking, just not following how it pertains to the OP which had narrowed down his tumbler selection options to 3 small units. Sounds to me as though he wants to tumble a few loads of rocks he has collected and will go from there. My 12 lb tumbler would take weeks to round some rocks good enough. Actually, that could read months, but so will your 40 pound barrel. You ought to try it sometime. Cob - please don't buy 45 pounds of grit before you know if this is a hobby you might stick with. Yes, it's more expensive to buy in lesser amounts, but sometimes prudent. 5 lbs ought to last you a couple/few loads, and then you will know whether you should be buying in bulk.
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