jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 21, 2015 11:18:00 GMT -5
This 3/4 pound coral started with a rough 4 day SiC 30/60 finish from the rotary to SiC 220 in the vibe for 24 hours. Vibe dried out at 12 hours due to forgetting to put cover on which damaged the finish a bit. Garnet media only averages 5mm yet had a big impact on reducing the 220 to near polish in 24 hours. Almandine garnet is hard @ Mohs 7.5 and tough according to Knoop scale. Garnet-1360, Topaz-1340, Quartz-820. Not sure what ceramic is. Glass media has much less effect on breaking down grit. Glass is Knoop 530. Ran similar test with glass, took 7 days to get SiC 220 to polish level. Media rules. This untumbled chip of coral was run the day before starting in fresh SiC 220 and garnet media for 24 hours. However the vibe did not go dry. It has a fine polish, albeit rough from never being rotary tumbled. Not sure how softer material will react to garnet media. Must check other samples including obsidian that ran last night. Full hopper of quartz is 14 pounds. Full hopper of garnet weighs 24 pounds. Very dense and little air space. Soft materials must take longer to polish, they did not get a polish in 24 hours. However garnets still not rounded.
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 21, 2015 16:18:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the update...........
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Feb 21, 2015 18:33:27 GMT -5
Very interesting. Going to try mixing agate/quartz smalls with my next vibe batch of obsidian or feldspar.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 21, 2015 19:43:20 GMT -5
Very interesting. Going to try mixing agate/quartz smalls with my next vibe batch of obsidian or feldspar. ingawh said she uses well rounded pebbles for the obsidian Ken. It will take weeks(months ?) for my garnets to be rounded. I bought some generic psyllium husks for way less than Metamucil. She mentioned something about sugar free Metamucil. I started some slabs and sawn oysters this afternoon in SiC 220 with garnets, should be done in two days.
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Post by snowmom on Feb 22, 2015 7:18:14 GMT -5
watching with interest
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 22, 2015 8:05:28 GMT -5
Metamucil is basically a fine seed husk called psyllium with sweeteners added. It is compressed into tablets or mixed with sugars for mixing in a drink. Bulk psyllium seed can be bought in 3-5 pound containers with no additives for $20-$40 for administering to horses. It is a much finer product that rice hulls, making it desirable for an immediate finer batter for tumbling. My complaint about rice hulls is they are slow to break down and too coarse, leaving rocks exposed to bruising at first 6-12 hours. www.amazon.com/AniMed-389145-ANIPSYLL-POWDER-4-85-PAIL/dp/B004PU5UJW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_petsupplies_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=095A7000ER48SMMSTPCJANIPSYLL POWDER 4.85# PAIL by AniMed 1 customer review Price: $22.35 & FREE Shipping on orders over $35. Details Only 3 left in stock. Sold by etopso and Fulfilled by Amazon. Want it Tuesday, Feb. 24? Order within 33 hrs 40 mins and choose One-Day Shipping at checkout. Details Psyllium husks are a natural source of dietary fiber Aids in the treatment and prevention of constipation, sluggish intestines and sand colic
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 22, 2015 8:48:46 GMT -5
Well, I have run two trails with the garnets on agates and SiC 220 and had great results on agate snowmom. ingawh 's mention of using fairly hard media to break down the grit is playing out for me. The garnets are harder than the agate if that means anything; they may impart a polish. I had been running the garnets alone for two weeks in the vibe just to tumble them and tossed a chip of agate in with them. So it was not really intentional.
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Post by snowmom on Feb 22, 2015 11:26:08 GMT -5
serendipity- unintended positive consequenses of an action meant to produce a different outcome (searching for granite and finding gold, for instance). Some of the world's greatest discoveries have been made while trying to discover or achieve something else. Very interesting.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 22, 2015 13:38:33 GMT -5
serendipity- unintended positive consequenses of an action meant to produce a different outcome (searching for granite and finding gold, for instance). Some of the world's greatest discoveries have been made while trying to discover or achieve something else. Very interesting. Being a narrow minded engineer 1-2-3-4-5-6 type person has been a hindrance. Do resent tried and tested though. However, being blessed with a healthy case of schizophrenia comes in handy at times. Allows traipsing into the arts and discovery mode with open mind and w/out the use of mind altering substances.
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Feb 22, 2015 14:53:52 GMT -5
serendipity- unintended positive consequenses of an action meant to produce a different outcome (searching for granite and finding gold, for instance). Some of the world's greatest discoveries have been made while trying to discover or achieve something else. Very interesting. As I remember the story silicon carbide was an accidental discovery. The fellow was trying to make diamonds. According to wikepedia in an iron bowl. The way I heard the story originally was he did it in a toilet bowl. I like the toilet version better, but either way a serendipitous and commercially successful accidental discovery.
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Post by snowmom on Feb 23, 2015 9:20:12 GMT -5
my mind keeps going back to this thread. Thinking of looking for a couple of pounds of little garnets, wondering how those sharp crystals that don't break down would interact with the rubber tub on my Lot-O... might find it wears out pretty quick. still tempted... I hope others who experiment with this will post their findings. somebody out there is thinking of experimenting, right? (c'mon fess up, I'm not the only one!)
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Feb 23, 2015 9:57:50 GMT -5
No snowmom you are not the only one thinking of experimenting. Went on a search for reasonably priced garnets after first reading this thread. They can be had. Have been looking for a way to speed up the coarse grind with limited success. Faster way may not truly exist. Thinking garnets might help and since they take a long time to round would last. Would think that they would work best in the Lot-O after being well rounded first.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2015 10:57:18 GMT -5
No snowmom you are not the only one thinking of experimenting. Went on a search for reasonably priced garnets after first reading this thread. They can be had. Have been looking for a way to speed up the coarse grind with limited success. Faster way may not truly exist. Thinking garnets might help and since they take a long time to round would last. Would think that they would work best in the Lot-O after being well rounded first. Let me save you some money Ken. The sharp garnets acted as filler in the rotary(with agates). They slowed coarse grind. May have even reduced the SiC 30/60. Again, hard to beat SiC. They themselves do grind faster in the rotary to smooth them though. And being specific, high grade almandines from Emerald Creek. Some of the hardest and heaviest known. However, in the vibe, they are grit crushers, even at 5-6mm. So they do speed grit breakdown incredibly for finishing in the vibe. 7 days with glass verses 1 day with garnet filler. But Pulled coral, dallasite, impactite, and a few others out of the vibe with these small garnets and they sure undercut. Granted, they put a close to polish finish on agate/coral with SiC 220 in 24 hours in the vibe, but they really undercut the stones at the same time. Not saying the garnets undercut, but the way they carry the grit probably did the undercutting. If they were smooth, it may be a different game. Good luck getting them smooth, that is some hard stuff, and will take a long time. Being small makes it even more difficult to tumble them. A Lot-O holds 5 cups, which is about 4 pounds of agate/quartz. 5 cups of these garnets weighs 7 pounds. Exact same ratio with my 14 pound vibe, it holds 24 pounds of theses garnets. So they are heavy. and small, so no voids. 10 days in the vibe w/daily SiC 80 and Sic 220 wash outs and the garnets are far from round. (ran 2 days on the SiC 80). PM me if you want some of these almandines. I have a good supply. But I think the only use for them is in the vibe, and only after smooth. And even then they may undercut. I will try to tumble a large quantity in my bowl tumbler when it warms up. It will round them fast. If I can smooth 50 pound lots in it then I may sell them as vibe filler pre rounded for end users. Also-ran a load last night of agate with just the semi smoothed garnets-no abrasive. A load of agate that ran 24 hours in SiC 220 the day before to a semi-polish. To see if just the garnets would throw a polish on them. Will check them sometime today and report.
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Post by captbob on Feb 23, 2015 11:15:16 GMT -5
Not to sure I'd use the garnets with dallasite. I've been working on tumbling dallasite since early November and it's been ... (trying to think of right word) ... frustrating.
Dallasite is a composition of many different minerals and hardnesses. You will notice, if you haven't already, that the brown (whatever that is) will undercut significantly. Lots of material gets culled when tumbling dallasite.
I'm thinking that the small garnets will exacerbate this undercutting tendency.
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Post by 1dave on Feb 23, 2015 11:30:30 GMT -5
You can buy garnet grit from Home Depot for $28. Any better deals?
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Post by captbob on Feb 23, 2015 11:34:01 GMT -5
^^ That is interesting ^^
If the Sic grit is a Mohs 9ish and the garnet is (what did James say?) 7.5ish (?) would there be a benefit in using garnet grit? Probably much more expensive than SiC.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 23, 2015 11:41:30 GMT -5
I'm sure you've seen this picture, but just in case, scroll down about a quarter of the way down the page: Garnet and Stone Canyon JasperThis was done in a rotary tumbler. What an incredible success for both types of rock. James, are your garnets getting anywhere near this awesome?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2015 13:27:23 GMT -5
This garnet deal is new to me. I had been running them in the vibe for 2 weeks. Then I started adding sample rocks with them. I suppose you have to look at it several ways. Running garnets with grit and with out grit. There is 20 pounds of semi abrasive garnet, and 4 pounds of test rocks in the vibe. 5 times more basically gentle 'abrasive' than rocks.... So it is an odd arrangement to begin with. They can be run with grit or without. Running garnets with SiC 220 or 80 under cuts. Running them clean and free of grit seems to just polish. The garnets do poorly with obsidian, glass, softer rhyolites, dallasite and other soft rocks with SiC. Not sure about them polishing soft stones with out grit. However, the garnets alone put a shine on the hard coral and agate. Pretty quick. Only ran one load with clean garnets for 24 hours, waiting till tomorrow for 48 hour results. But 24 hour results put a shine on rotary tumbled rocks out of SiC 30/60. No doubt they shine agates. But the ratio is 20 pounds garnets to 4 pounds agate. Delicate slab run with garnets with and without grit. The first 24 hours was SiC 220, which undercut Glare angle showing undercutting of corallites on above slab a raw chip after 24 hours in clean garnets(no grit) and dry Whole batch dumped out. 24 hours, just garnets and no grit Same batch washed and wet Garnets after about 2 weeks in the vibe in mostly SiC 220 and getting clean outs about every day. starting to round some Trash from clean out I have heard of people using garnets for tumbling and mention of them getting better as they round for making a polish. I have heard of people using them with agates in a rotary to improve grind rate, did not seem to do that in my rotary. but I coarse grind with SiC 30/60... They darn sure break down SiC in the vibe, am sure about that. Still running them. Still throwing sample rocks with them. Will post more findings.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2015 13:55:48 GMT -5
I'm sure you've seen this picture, but just in case, scroll down about a quarter of the way down the page: Garnet and Stone Canyon JasperThis was done in a rotary tumbler. What an incredible success for both types of rock. James, are your garnets getting anywhere near this awesome? The garnets are gentle and would serve as a padded carrier for that fine piece of stone Canyon Rob. That was probably rolled a long time, see the garnets before and after. Does not surprise. I would assume he was using abrasive steps the whole way.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 23, 2015 15:26:16 GMT -5
It looks like the 24 hour SiC 220 run in the vibe broke down quicker than I thought. Seems that the SiC 220 broke down to nothing at some point in the 24 hours and then the garnets may have been responsible for the semi polish at the end.
I added obsidian and labradolite today to see if the garnets w/out grit will put a shine on them. SiC has a way of scarring those two stones. Maybe clean garnets will scar them too. Will see.
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