Yes. If you do not add a thickener I think you will have bruises for sure.
Some hard agates will not bruise with out thickeners, just straight water. But it is a gamble.
I would not run any rocks in a vibe without sugar or borax or some other type of thickener.
These thickeners are also lubricants that speed up the process too.
Borax worked on rose quartz, it is similar to adventurine.
I think 50% smalls or filler would be a good idea too.
Adventurine over 2 inches will bruise easier too.
You get "bruises" in your vibe? Anyone else experience this?
I dunno... I've not tumbled the mass of rocks that you, and many others here, have, but I just have not had this bruised rocks problem. Granted, I use rotary barrels and not a vibe, but it would seem that the bruising phenomena would be more likely to occur in a rotary where rocks are tumbling down on each other than in a vibe.
Having been on this forum for many years I just don't recall bruised rocks being a problem or even discussed.
My memory ain't what it used to be tho, so maybe I've simply forgotten such discussions.
It does make sense that a thickening agent would be helpful in
cushioning rocks from each other.
In the same way that fillers (smalls, ceramic media, plastic pellets) have always been used.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that "thickening agents" are a solution in search of a problem, being that they seem to have much the same affect as fillers.
Just a different way to skin that cat.
You mention that the thickeners also act as a lubricant which speeds up the process.
From my reading here and understanding of how these vibes work, it seems like one needs to run each grit for a day or two and move on to the next grit. Maybe a bit longer if starting with rocks not started in a rotary to shape. (?)
So, what is gained by using these thickeners? Knocking 12 hours or a even a day off each grit cycle?
Isn't the use of thickeners more labor intensive - in that they need more babysitting to keep at the right consistency - than running without?
I'm not trying to be contentious, simply playing devil's advocate (which, I suppose, ain't far different in meaning!) and wondering if the thickeners are worth the extra work.
If the thickeners seem to benefit the final polish, would adding them for that stage ONLY bring the same end results?
I recall your using sugar in your rotary tumblers back before you got the vibe. Part of the 1 percent.
Won't say that no one else used sugar in rotary, but other sugar addicts were sure few and far between.
But, you were sold on it.
Personally, I have never used sugar, so maybe it's the end all be all - I honestly can't say.
I haven't used it because I don't need a solution for a problem that I am not experiencing.
MY thinking is that this bruising problem of yours is due to your PVC barrels. I've been wrong before...
(do others using PVC barrels experience bruising?)
So, you needed a solution to YOUR problem. And, it seems, that thickeners were that solution - over the option of using fillers which you have also well documented.
My being ill is starting to make my mind lose track so I have to close and I'm only half way through what I wanted to write. I hope I can pick up my direction and purpose when I come back.
Parting questions for now:
are these thickener experiments basically for vibe use or either?
are the benefits worth the effort - is the polish better or it's just "faster"?
I have thoroughly enjoyed all these experiments and pictures and hope they continue.Great entertainment if nothing else.
Just wonder if all this may be leading folks to use completely unnecessary methods.
For some reason, reading that
fossilman is going out to get borax and sugar bugs the heck out of me.
He doesn't need it!
I'm thinkin' that others will also believe that "thickening agents" - whether they be sugar, borax, Murphy's Oil soap or pancake batter - are necessary.
When that simply ain't so.
Experimentation for fun or the sake of trimming a half a second off your best quarter mile time is all well and good.
And a placebo can make some folks feel better.
My head is hurts and I gotta go cough up a lung. More later...
love ya man!
(note to self: the rose quartz being like aventurine (no d) thing)
*sigh*