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Post by James Hall on Aug 19, 2003 16:54:18 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
Have read all your messages and am quite please to have found this site. I myself have bought the sapphires off of Ebay and am very new to tumbling. I guess i should have started with something simpler. Phase one is just 2 days old and I plan to let it run for another 2 days based on what I have read here. My concern is this- can i use softer stones in any phase as filler to get them started or is this a waste of time?
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Pdwight
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 619
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Post by Pdwight on Aug 19, 2003 17:08:01 GMT -5
I can tell you what I have found out in my own experience. The emeralds do very well, they shape and polish like one would expect. The Sapphires and Rubies (corundum) are hard as hell and are most frustrating to work with. None of these look good to me..no matter haw much tumbling I do. I did get a bag of Aquamarines and they did well. Please excuse my spelling.
Dwight P
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Post by docone31 on Aug 19, 2003 17:08:27 GMT -5
I use both softer stones, and small hard polished stones. I also throw in a little borax during the last day of step 5, cerium oxide.
I do not think you will find much with four days. The rubies and saphires are tough stuff. At four add more grit, both on step one, and step two. I go eight days, monday to monday, and it works well. I also go two weeks for step three and four. Step five is eight days.
The first batch I had to redo from start to finish. It just worked that way.
I have two pronounced stars, and after the first tumble I got a lot of facet grade rubies. From both the emeralds, and rubies I have gotten a lot of facet grade. I cut one emerald in a 6mm brilliant to try. Being a dull stone to begin with, it did not have fire but polished up real well and sold the next day.
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Post by Beachcomber on Aug 19, 2003 18:17:48 GMT -5
Emeralds are tricky.. they contain natural oils... you can tumble them smooth but keep in mind that if they dry out they'll shrink and crack... don't put em in a vibrator either unless they are good hearty chunks, they shatter easily. (you'll note that jewelers never place emerald rings in an ultrasonic cleaner..same as opal... only opal is 2 - 20 % water so you really gotta be carefull with it) Sapphires come up rather nicely and so do rubies.. keep in mind that some varites of ruby will look foggy no matter how much you polish em. My advice with the emeralds though...and maybe even the sapphires and rubies...facet them they'll be worth more. I've never seen an emerald marble (sphere) attempted before though..that could be cool.
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Post by Beachcomber on Aug 19, 2003 18:21:44 GMT -5
Just an afterthought... a good tumbled emerald would definately be the mark of skilled tumbler. Good show... I might try it...after these amythests are done.  |
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Post by docone31 on Aug 19, 2003 18:37:52 GMT -5
Emerald/beryl, does not contain natural oils. The most common treatment for emeralds is Canadian Balsam. A new treatment is Opticon, a variant of T-86 structural epoxy. Both of these are added prior to faceting, and in a lot of cases just before polishing the facets.
Canadian Balsam, a diluting medium used with oil paints, and found in most good oil paint stores, is mixed with either mineral spirits, or turpentine and the emerald is allowed to soak untill the turpentine or spirits has evaporated, and the Balsam is saturated and hard. Opal, with a mohs of 3.5 to 4 gets its fire from colloidal silicates within the chalk matrix. It also is treated with oils, and in some cases epoxy, I do not want to go into Andamooke Opals, they are a different story. When ultrasonic cleaning is done with these and other softer stones, the oil is shed exposing the prior defects/cracks, and can magnify any defects in these and other stones.
I am in love with the deep green of second rate emeralds. When these are tumbled, or faceted and polished I feel these have a fire of their own. How can royal green be shown if the stone is transparent and lightly greenish?
My response to this is governed by getting "had" by a jeweler years ago. Oiling a stone covers a multitude of sins and I didn't know what I didn't know. I later needed to resell the piece and got 4% of its stated value because of oiling. Cavaet Emptor!
A tumbled emerald, oiled and displayed is a piece of beauty like none other. Tumbling gem grade pieces is foolish anyway so doing second quality does very interesting things indeed.
I carry a piece of tumbled emerald in my pocket. I feel a certain peace when I take it out and just feel the stone when reflecting. With random sampling, how many people carry a piece of polished emerald in their pocket who have to work for a living. That is one of the privileges of doing out of the box.
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mrflake
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2003
Posts: 58
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Post by mrflake on Aug 27, 2003 15:00:35 GMT -5
Ok just decided to follow the crowd and got some ruby roough off Ebay ( amazing shipped from states to UK faster than our internal mail!) Anyway, never having seen rough before I recieved what appeared to be a bag of granite. Closer inspection reveals pink rock with bits of grey and white deposits around it. The question is , is the pink on the outside rep :)resentative of the inside, ie will tumbling make any difference other than smoothing, on odd rocks there are little bands of deep red, is this the actual ruby and the pink rock something else? To me all the stones are nice ( i follow docones sentiment that rock with matrix attached still looks appealing) but as a novice it would be nice to know exactly what I am looking at.
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Post by docone31 on Aug 27, 2003 15:37:20 GMT -5
When I put my stones in the tumbler, I wonder at what is actually there. Once I have done the first stage, and rubies, corundum is tough stuff, I have to double charge 80 grit, I can start to see what I have. I have seperated some facet quality gems from the first stage of tumbling. I continue. I have had to tumble twice full stages to get nice shiney stones. Only upon tumbling twice have I found any star quality, and some of the gem quality needed two tumbles to be seen. It helps to put some sand into the tumbler with the stones and tumble the daylights out of it. Eventually most of the sand is gone, but it helps get the crap out of the small places.
Rubies and saphires are hard!!! Keep the bbl rolling
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Djinjuice
starting to shine!
Member since March 2003
Posts: 47
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Post by Djinjuice on Aug 29, 2003 1:33:50 GMT -5
I also started tumbling the emeralds I got from North Carolina. I am 4 days into it and can hardly wait to see what comes out of the barrell ! I had one of the stones faceted, it is about 1 carat (I think), it measures 6x8mm. Does that seem about right? I am not particulary schooled in jewelry (of any sort), so that is just an uneducated guess. But it is a lovely medium to dark green with an inclusion running down the middle. I am curious to know if anyone can tell me what the heck is a "crabtree" emerald....  I also tumbled some amethyst, along with some other quartzes, and I am a little bummed out that about 30% of it seems to have nasty cracks, but I guess that is a small price to pay for the rest of the batch, which seems to be coming along pretty well so far. |
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Post by docone31 on Sept 10, 2003 16:41:40 GMT -5
I am curious, what cut did they facet the emerald to. 6X8mm sounds right for an "emerald cut". Also, about how much did it cost for the faceting. I have been faceting other peoples stones and I think I have been underpricing myself. I also make intarsia cabachons from emeralds.
They look georgeous do they not. I just designed a new ring for setting the stones as they come from the tumbler. It accepts any tumbled stone, and is weareable.
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Djinjuice
starting to shine!
Member since March 2003
Posts: 47
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Post by Djinjuice on Sept 11, 2003 1:31:37 GMT -5
Yes, it's an emerald cut. As far as price went, I'll have to explain a little. I bought a 5 gallon bucket of dirt for 65 dollars, washed it, a person went through the stones and picked out the best ones to facet. Along with that bucket you recieve a free faceted stone and I picked out an emerald. It was an extra 20 to facet it because of its hardness. So in all I paid 85 bucks, got a nice faceted stone, and came home with close to 18 lbs of rough gem stones. A little pricey? Not to me since I got an array of stuff including a ruby crystal that is about 2 inches long and 1 inch in diameter. Boy were they really interested in that stone! I can't wait to go back and try some of the other places there.
So I figure the stone cost me 40 dollars, now I need a setting for it! ;D
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Post by docone31 on Sept 11, 2003 7:07:17 GMT -5
It sounds like you got a good deal on the stone, and rough. I get 9$ a facet for cutting through polishing on any cut.
Settings are the easy part. I make all mine from scratch with gold wire. I prefer barouque pendants, and wire rings.
Now that large ruby crystal. There are a lot of online facet patterns. I would take my time before I had that cut. There is about 50% ct loss with faceting. If you are ever in southwest Floriduh and have a chance, stop by my shop. I might be able to steer you in a general direction, or we just might talk tumbling.
It sounds like you had a really good "bucket of fun".
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Post by docone31 on Oct 1, 2003 21:52:40 GMT -5
I just faceted a 6mmX9mm plum ruby from the batch of rubies and saphires I got. I never would have found this beauty unless I had tumbled the batch. Unreal. I am building a ring for my wife with this stone. It is a cut I got off the internet, a modified emerald cut, with 54 facets. I did have to "oil" the stone. I used boiled linseed oil and soaked it for a few days. Once wiped off, the one inclusion disappeared. One way to tell if the stones can take an oiling is to soak them in alcohol. If the inclusion disappears it will take an oil. It may not command a premium price but it looks great. A beautiful plum, rich, sharp, and large. I had to brag. From a batch of black, gritty stones came this masterpiece. I am in awe.
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donwrob
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 509
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Post by donwrob on Oct 2, 2003 9:48:03 GMT -5
Hi doc, sure sounds like a beauty. Is there any chance we can see a pic of it? I'd like to put a good eye on it if possible. If you would like to or could e-mail me a jpg., I'd be happy to post the pic here in the thread so we all can drool a little ;D. I sure have the faceting bug, but still no luck getting the new dia wheel and other goodies I need. I also found a place called franksminetours.com that sell gem rough for reasonable. You can get 10lb of rough for $49.00 on a special. Of course it is a mixed batch with other stones (semi precious) too, but all would be good for learning to facet and at $5/lb it's hard to beat. Oh yeah, almost forgot. doc, did you facet it by hand? As in dop stick on a rest by eye or with a faceting jig with all the settings. I hope that isn't a stupid question, just curious about faceting. Thanks in advance, Don
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Post by docone31 on Oct 2, 2003 10:04:41 GMT -5
Don I have a RaytechShaw faceter. This is a metal dop, transfer jig, 6" dia horizontal machine. As an example, for each facet, I have to use 180,360,660,1200, and phenolic polish lap. Each facet has five individual steps. The hardest issue is repeating the index for the facets through the cuts. I am going to photo this ruby then try to figuire out how to put it up. It is a 54 facet cut, times five steps, each one has to be exact to the first cut and stone orientation. This is why I was so excited at tumbling. I can see the orientation, flaws, and the crud comes of the stone before the first cut. The loss through tumbling is much less than the overall facet loss which is sometimes 60%ct weight. I was lost untill I accidently put my emerald rough into the tumbler. Then I could facet and spend that time without losing the stone. I am going to try to put a photo up on this one.
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donwrob
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 509
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Post by donwrob on Oct 2, 2003 11:35:15 GMT -5
OK doc, thanks. Can't wait to see a pic. And like I said, I would be happy to post if for you on the site if you send me a pic. I have so much to learn about faceting and all the other aspects of this hobby, it is a long way off for me. Right now I will concentrate on tumbling and learning to cab when I manage to get the new wheel. Maybe even a little hand faceting of some glass or obsidian to make something that Betty or Wilma might consider wearing...hehe. Step by step, slowly I move toward learning all I can about rocks and gems. Rocks, ya got to love em' Don
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Post by docone31 on Oct 2, 2003 11:38:36 GMT -5
Don, send me an e-mail and I will send a photo of prior work. A pendant with a saphire I faceted from this batch.
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donwrob
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 509
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Post by donwrob on Oct 2, 2003 22:39:43 GMT -5
Folks, wait till you feast your eyes on this sapphire pendant made by docone31. A real beauty with super wire wrapping. I wish the pic was bigger so we could see the facet work better, but it is a real knock out. Look at the deep blue of that sapphire! Great work doc buddy! Inspirational, thanks for sending the pic, Don  |
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Post by docone31 on Oct 3, 2003 20:58:38 GMT -5
Don, that is a 6mm semi-brilliant faceted saphire. The setting is done without gold solder. That gem was in a batch of low ball rough that a tumble brought out. I use tumbling rather than polishing a window in the stone. Again, thank you for getting the photo out. I and my 'puter, the anti-christ, don't seem to be able to do it. I am still learning a lot of things. If I can, I will have a friend shoot my plum saphire I cut for my wife for her engagement ring. The first one I gave her was a black pearl set with gold wire going through the pearl. That is the one on the other photo shoot. Thanks for getting the photo out. I am still working on things.
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WilliamC
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2003
Posts: 416
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Post by WilliamC on Oct 4, 2003 7:10:06 GMT -5
Greetings All,
Very nice stone and setting Doc, very nice. Lot's of gold in that piece, which given the value of the stone makes sense. It's nice to see what talented people can do. Kilos of kudos Doc.
WilliamC
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